The recent thread on the ejection of cdunlop fromthe Battlefield Wal-Mart store raises the issue yet again of the Wal-Mart problem
. I'll use Hawk's most recent post over there to launch this thread in the hopes of generating some discussion and ideas to solve the WMP. I am assuming that, at least at some point, it would be in the interests of the OC (and CC) communities to deal wit da problem.
It is amazing how such a simple concept can elude so many people. The fact that state law prevails at Walmarts, does NOT mean you get to OC or even CC in those stores. IT IS UP TO THE MANAGER OF THE LOCAL STORE!
That IS what the state law says.
If you get tossed from one store go to another and let both store know you have moved your money.
When you run out of Walmarts, stop going there, and tell them that too.
Or we could send HankT to corporate and have a full blown gun ban at all of the stores if people really want consistency. In order to be consistent ALL stores would have to meet the requirements of the strictest jurisdiction in which they have a store.
Guess what the code might be there. Can you say Bloomberg?
It's amazing how many fraidy cats there are when a communication problem comes up. Looks like that ole "de facto corporate policy"
that many herewere relying on is getting de flexible
But, we really don't know. And nobody wants to check it out. They're afraid
of Susan, afraid
of Joe McQueen. Afraid
of talking to people.
Stuck. Stuck (exactly half-way) between claiming a fait accompli
of unimpeded OCing in Wally Worlds throughout Virginia/U.S. and having to decry increasingly numerous instances of denials of same to OCDC members. With no relief in sight.
So, the best advice is "go out there and OC in Wal-Mart. If you get hassled, fight it and they will back down!"
Or some such. Yeah, and so we get case after case after case of Wal-Mart hasslings.
And all we can get from Hawkflyer is a "Don't rock the boat, don't do nothing--it could be worse."
bleat with a dash of FUDwhich he tries to pass offas sage advice. How very progressive.
On the Wal-Mart problem, Mike seems limited to the exhortation to just go OC and everything will be alright because "WalMart managers not up to speed on the applicable state law...will eventually "get it" and back down."
In the meantime, OCDCers and other OCerscontinually get busted. How many are getting tagged? Are the OC busts increasing? Who nows? "Stay the course,"
is Mike's strategy. And don't
call Joe McQueen, whatever you do. That would show "weakness." So, if you get kicked at your local W-M, just duke it out with the local security, cops, local management and corporate--every single time it happens
If you lose, just go to another Wal-Mart, Hawk suggests. Which isn't such a totally
bad strategy (as avoidance strategies go) since there are thousands of Wally-Worlds. At a rate of gettingbanned from, say, two W-M's per week, it would take you 28.8 years to get shut out of allthe "Lower Prices--Always" afforded by Sam's great accomplishment. Presumably, after you get kicked from all the domestic Wally Worlds, you can start on the Canadian list.
What is the Wal-Mart problem
Most capable analysts are aware that any study/inquiry/research/analysis must begin with the crucial step ofdefining the problem. This step is not optional. Any analysis is (should be) constrained by the definition and parameters of the problem
. Befuddlement, inertia, indecisiveness, inertia, lethargyand chaos follow when the problem is not defined adequately. Nothing gets solved and lots of resources are wasted. ******* and moan about the non-solving of the problem always follows. It's a fascinating thing to watch--if you like seeing train wrecks.
I think the WMP begins with this "de facto corporate policy" that many people tout, a telephone message from a staffer (someone is afraid to mention here name) in Bentonville:
This is Susan [garbled], I'm Joe McQueen's assistant with the Wal-Mart's Market office. Uh, we are in receipt of a letter, uh, dated 10-2, or call, I would say,uh, concerning a manager in a Chesapeake store. Uh, leading a charge to ban in store carrying of firearms [garbled]district [garbled].
Number 1, you are absolutely 100% correct. You are, especially in the state of Virginia and every other state that I know of, legally entitled to carry a firearm.
Uh, as long as you are within the law, that's your business. We have no right to stop you, we might be able to stop and ask about it, because they would like to know who's got one and who doesn't, especially if they see one. But, uh, as far as telling you cannot enter the store, you would have to leave, uh, won't happen. If police were called, the police will tell you, we have, they have no car...no way can they remove someone just because they carry a firearm. This is not, you talk about a ban, uh, this is nothing that we are aware of at the Market office nor at the home office.
Uh, we will certainly, I'd love to talk to you about it. Uh, if you'd like to call the Market office, 471-1651, area code 757. Uh, but, this is, this is a new one we've heard.
Uh, so, if you don't mind I'll try to call you tomorrow or if you want to give me a call back.
Thank you and have a wonderful, wonderful day.
[reflects aural emphasis from telecon]
If, and only if, someone wants to accept this as a "corporate policy, then the Wal-Mart problem
The recurring failure of local Wal-Mart stores in Virginia and other states to properly know and apply the actual corporate policy/and or statelawsthat prohibit the stopping and/or removal of"someone just because they [open or concealed]carry a firearm."
This problemdefinition could be tweaked a bit,and anyone is free toalter it to improve it to suit their tastes. But it contains the essential factors that are presumably responsible for the difficulties that certain OCers are currently experiencing: Wal-Mart corporate policy, localstate statutory provisions, local store/area culture, local store managment jurisdiction and lattitude, police involvement, etc.
Time to solve theWMP.
Do we use the ostrich head-in-the-groundcum FUD approach advocated byHawkflyer results in your having to make a long list of Wal-Mart stores, crossing each store off the list asyou get thrown out of them over 28 years? OrMike's approach of "don't show weakness, just OC" means that each OC community will die the death of a thousand cuts, each slice being yet another OCDCer getting stopped/hassled/ejectedby the W-M militia and local LEOs?
The common denominator of the solutions and direction offered by Hawk and Mike is:
but they (kind of) solve a
problem in a comprehensible way. So, pick Hawk's solution or Mike's solution. Everything will be al-right
Or is there another solution to the WMP?