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Thread: Virginia's Blue Ridge Community College Allows Students with CHP's to Carry on Campus!

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    It appears that Blue Ridge Community College allows their students to carry on campus! BRCC is a small community college located in Weyers Cave, VA (north of Staunton and south of Harrisonburg on I81). This is big news for GMU-SCC because we now have a VA college that is already doing the right thing. GMU needs to follow their example.

    See the Blue Ridge Community College Student Handbook (providing that "Carrying firearms or other weapons on college property or at any college activity except as explicitly authorized for instructional purposes or as exempted by Virginia Code 18.2-308 et seq. [emphasis added]) at http://www.brcc.edu/Student/handbook/policy/rights.htm

    If anyone comes across any other college in VA that allows students to carry, please let me know ASAP! Also, if anyone has extra time on their hands and feels like searching through the policies of VA colleges for a similar exemption as BRCC's, I would greatly appreciate it!

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    Nope, it reads just the opposite. They do NOT allow carry on campus.


    Student Responsibilities
    To ensure an environment consistent with the mission, values and vision of Blue Ridge Community College, students are expected to respect the rights of each member of the college community and to behave in a manner supportive of the collegiate environment. Behaviors which are considered to be disruptive of the collegiate environment and subject to disciplinary action include but are NOT limited to the following:
    [SNIP]

    H. Carrying firearms or other weapons on college property or at any college activity except as explicitly authorized for instructional purposes or as exempted by Virginia Code 18.2-308 et seq.


    That reads: Carrying firearms on college property or at college activity is disruptive to the collegiate environment and subject to disciplinary action EXCEPT for instructional purposes or those exempted by 18.2.308 which are:



    B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person while in his own place of business;

    2. Any law-enforcement officer, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;

    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    6. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting, as authorized by the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries, under inclement weather conditions necessitating temporary protection of his firearm from those conditions, provided that possession of a handgun while engaged in lawful hunting shall not be construed as hunting with a handgun if the person hunting is carrying a valid concealed handgun permit; and

    7. Any State Police officer retired from the Department of State Police, any local law-enforcement officer, auxiliary police officer or animal control officer retired from a police department or sheriff's office within the Commonwealth, any special agent retired from the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, any game warden retired from the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, and any Virginia Marine Police officer retired from the Law Enforcement Division of the Virginia Marine Resources Commission, other than an officer or agent terminated for cause, (i) with a service-related disability; (ii) following at least 15 years of service with any such law-enforcement agency, board or any combination thereof; or (iii) who has reached 55 years of age, provided such officer carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the chief law-enforcement officer of the last such agency from which the officer retired or, in the case of special agents, issued by the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. A copy of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be forwarded by the chief or the Board to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The chief law-enforcement officer shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the retired law-enforcement officer otherwise meets the requirements of this section.

    For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of subsection P, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit.

    C. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:

    1. Carriers of the United States mail;

    2. Officers or guards of any state correctional institution;

    3. [Repealed.]

    4. Conservators of the peace, except that the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit as provided in subsection D hereof: (a) notaries public; (b) registrars; (c) drivers, operators or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire; or (d) commissioners in chancery;

    5. Noncustodial employees of the Department of Corrections designated to carry weapons by the Director of the Department of Corrections pursuant to § 53.1-29; and

    6. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.
    Make sense?


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    You forgot "D"

    § 18.2-308
    D. (Effective until July 1, 2007 - see Editor's notes) Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he resides, or if he is a member of the United States Armed Forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun...

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    I work at a community college in Virginia, and it's our local policy that firearms ARE NOT permitted at the college. I also find it rather difficult to believe that Blue Ridge C C would allow personnel with a concealed carry permit to bring firearms on to the campus.

    The following is taken directly from the Blue Ridge C C web site - Campus Security Policies and Procedures:

    "Firearms and other dangerous weapons are not permitted on campus unless secured in a locked vehicle. Under no circumstances are such items to be removed from a vehicle and carried on the grounds or into the buildings."





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    Folks - Blue Ridge blinked when sued by a student Dave Briggman in 2003 time frame. The policy's exception is awkwardly worded - but the CHP holding students are exempt from the general admin gun ban there. Dave has confirmed this, and it has been reported in educational journals as an emerging trend.



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    Mike wrote:
    Folks - Blue Ridge blinked when sued by a student Dave Briggman in 2003 time frame. The policy's exception is awkwardly worded - but the CHP holding students are exempt from the general admin gun ban there. Dave has confirmed this, and it has been reported in educational journals as an emerging trend.
    Here is a journal article that Mike sent me concerning BRCC and their gun policy:

    Anticipating Legal Issued in Higher Education
    NASPA Journal, Vol. 42, no. 4, by Steven M. Janosik
    http://www.elps.vt.edu/janosik/anticipating.pdf

    Snip (page 9 [emphasis added]):
    Being Aware of the Entire Education Continuum
    The gun issue is playing itself out in Virginia in a slightly different manner. In March 2003, a student with a valid weapons permit gained permission to carry a concealed weapon onto the Blue Ridge Community College (BRCC) campus. He disputed the college’s ban on weapons and after several weeks an upper-level administrator at the institution concluded, with the help of the Virginia Attorney General, that students could carry concealed weapons if they possessed the proper permit (Jasper, 2003). This student also maintained that public colleges in Virginia that prevent people who hold concealed weapons permits to carry guns onto school property are violating state law (Jasper, 2004a).

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    From todays VA-Alert:

    *******************************************
    2. BRCC exempts CHP holders from campus gun ban
    *******************************************

    From VCDL Executive Member Mike Stollenwerk:

    Interestingly, the student handbook for Blue Ridge Community College exempts concealed handgun permit holding students from the college gun ban.

    So, in addition to the Colorado State University administration doing the right thing and exempting permit holders, we now have Virginia's own BRCC doing the same for years. The Blue Ridge Community College Student Handbook states that "Carrying firearms or other weapons on college property or at any college activity except as explicitly authorized for instructional purposes or as exempted by Virginia Code 18.2-308 et seq." at http://www.brcc.edu/Student/handbook/policy/rights.htm.

    So much for Gov. Kaine's "disaster."

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    Today Governor Kaine acknowledged that students with a CHP can carry on BRCC. He said that he thinks the school should be able to make the decision of whether to allow students to carry or not.

    http://www.whsv.com/home/headlines/7877087.html
    (Watch the video associated with this article.)

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    TEX1N wrote:
    Today Governor Kaine acknowledged that students with a CHP can carry on BRCC. He said that he thinks the school should be able to make the decision of whether to allow students to carry or not.

    http://www.whsv.com/home/headlines/7877087.html
    (Watch the video associated with this article.)
    Why can schools supress the RTKABA but not municipalities? Can you say "cop out"?

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    Mike wrote:
    Folks - Blue Ridge blinked when sued by a student Dave Briggman in 2003 time frame.* The policy's exception is awkwardly worded - but the CHP holding students are exempt from the general admin gun ban there.* Dave has confirmed this, and it has been reported in educational journals as an emerging trend.

    *
    Actually, I go to Blue Ridge.... Anyone know how to get in touch with Dave?

    On a side, unrelated note, the only time I've ever felt the desire to Carry would be at night. I know several groups of people, but the lightning's pretty bad there, and you have to take non-students into consideration.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    You can simply shoot me an email at briggman@gmail.com.

    Mike's correct. I challenged BRCC's weapons policy and Dean Baldigo confirmed with the AG's Office that you can carry with a permit.

    BRCC had threatened to change their policy immediately after I prevailed, however the policy stands as it did when I attended class there.


    Dave

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    Sorry it took a few days to get this up, it's been a hell of a week.

    Saw this on Tuesday when I was changing a class form one to another.

    "Of note lately, is the BRCC policy on firearms on campus. Our policy, as can be found in the Student Handbook, is as follows: 'To ensure an environment consistent with the mission, values, and vision of Blue Ridge Community College, students are expected to respect the rights of each member of the college community and to behave in a manner supportive of the collegiate environment. Behaviors which are considered to be disruptive of the collegiate environment and subject to disciplinary action include but are NOT limited to the following: ....Carrying firearms or other weapons on college property or at any college activity except as explicitly authorized for instructional purposes or as exempted by Virginia Code 18.2-308 et seq.

    If you have specific questions about safety or security at BRCC, please email PR@brcc.edu"

    Now, I've asked six people to read that paragraph, and give me their impression from it.

    Five have said this states you CANNOT carry on campus at all, and one..... I have no idea what she was talking about.

    18.2-308....
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    BRCC's policy specifically provides that for those with CHPs, you may carry on campus...notwithstanding the erroneous interpretations of a few in this forum.

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    davebriggman wrote:
    BRCC's policy specifically provides that for those with CHPs, you may carry on campus...notwithstanding the erroneous interpretations of a few in this forum.
    +1 - Dave is the expert on this one.

    See all of the references above to different sources that have noted that BRCC allows CHP holders to carry, including the governor and the NASPA Journal.

    BRCC's code specifically exempts everyone included in §18.2-308. And §18.2-308 paragraph "D" specifically exempts permit holders.

    I don't think walking up to people and asking them to read a legally worded document is the way to go. If you want a professional opinion, then talk to a professional.

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    Oh, I'm not doubting their rules.

    I'm saying the way it is stated is quite misleading, as I've noted 6 out of 6 of the students I've polled.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Oh, I'm not doubting their rules.

    I'm saying the way it is stated is quite misleading, as I've noted 6 out of 6 of the students I've polled.
    I think they did that on purpose. It appears that they have a normal gun ban in place so the anti's are happy, in reality they allow CHP holders to carry so the pro's are happy. Everyone wins and the school doesn't have to deal with the issue.

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    I'd like to be as optimistic as you are on that, but this is a COLLEGE we're talking about.

    Of course, they received a bit of flak from a few students over repeated showings of Inconvenient Truth, which, I'm glad to report received a luke-warm reception, at best.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    I hate to be a wet blanket about this but there are things we do need to consider. Even though you may have a canceled carry permit do you have the expertise to be able to determine the target. With more guns it does give the police that does respond another problem sorting out who is the good guys and who is the bad guys. Now if you where at VT and the firing started you go in the hallway and other like minded people do the same can you choose who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. I feel that one would need lots of tactical training.

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    thnycav wrote:
    I hate to be a wet blanket about this but there are things we do need to consider. Even though you may have a canceled carry permit do you have the expertise to be able to determine the target. With more guns it does give the police that does respond another problem sorting out who is the good guys and who is the bad guys. Now if you where at VT and the firing started you go in the hallway and other like minded people do the same can you choose who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. I feel that one would need lots of tactical training.
    So you honesty believe that the students at VT could not identify CHO as a threat because they had not received "lots of tactical training?!?"

    Seems to me that the guy walking around executing people is probably the threat, but then again I've had military tactical training...


    And regardless of whether a school allows students to carry or not, the police cannot currently assume that everyone with a gun is a bad guy. I know of officers that take night classes at GMU and carry. So this "problem" is already there.

    You also negate yourself by arguing that students shouldn't be able to carry because they don't have the expertise to correctly identify a threat, but then you also argue against student's carrying because the police don't have the ability to identify the threat.
    How can you argue that students should get tactical training before carrying guns, while also arguing that said training is inefficient for the police, who themselves carry guns?

    One last thing, you need to take a look at defensive uses of handguns by people with permits. I have never come across a situation where a CHP holder has accidentally shot the wrong person in self defense. I would challenge you to find such a case.

    Cho walked through an American college executing people who were defenseless. To say that those adults should not be able to defend their own lives - while on campus - because of an assortment of unfounded fears, is inhumane in my opinion. My life should not be any less valuable when I set foot onto my college campus, that is not the America that I served and defended.

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    Then again...it will take at least 20-30 minutes until the police get into the building. If you can hold out that long, to me, it's best to have your ID out with CHP and weapon holstered....and not moving a muscle until told to do so. When the PD finally gets into the building, they will treat everyone the same (i.e. potential shooter) until it gets sorted out through interviews and statements. Expect to be handcuffed.

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    thnycav wrote:
    I hate to be a wet blanket about this but there are things we do need to consider.
    Correct. Among them are:
    - These students are adults, who have ALREADY accepted the challengest incumbent with being a concealed permit holder.
    Even though you may have a canceled carry permit do you have the expertise to be able to determine the target.
    One, I would hope you aren't carrying with a canceled permit. Permits get cancelled because individuals surrender them voluntarily or because they're taken away for cause. Neither is true here.

    Everyone who carries a gun also carries the responsibility to determine the threat - I don't choose to call it a "target", simply because of the connotation of the word. We have accepted that it takes a great deal of judgment and maturity to accept that responsibility.

    With more guns it does give the police that does respond another problem sorting out who is the good guys and who is the bad guys.
    Perhaps, but not necessarily. By the time the police get there, the bad guy is probably down and the others will have secured their weapons because the threat is no longer present.

    Now if you where at VT and the firing started you go in the hallway and other like minded people do the same can you choose who is the bad guy and who is the good guy.
    Excuse me? Who at VT was given the option of going into the hallway? Perhaps I missed the part where Cho asked who wanted to be shot.

    The bad guy is the one with the gun, shooting innocent people. If you can't see that; if you can't determine the threat, you have no business shooting.

    I feel that one would need lots of tactical training.
    Tactical training would be a great help. But look at the issue this way.....if you have a choice between someone who's undergone even the minimum training required to get a CHL and no training at all, which do you want by your side? If you have someone near you who's gotten the permit, taken even some training, taken the time to select a weapon for carry, wouldn't you be grasping at those straws? I know I would.

    Better yet, I'll be the one who carries, who practicss, and who accepts the responsibility for me and, if necessary, others around me.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess....I'll be on your right...

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    thnycav wrote:
    I hate to be a wet blanket about this but there are things we do need to consider. Even though you may have a canceled carry permit do you have the expertise to be able to determine the target. With more guns it does give the police that does respond another problem sorting out who is the good guys and who is the bad guys.
    Did you *seriously* think about what you wrote before you pressed "send"? Did you re-read your own thoughts?

    How do you sort out the "bad guys"? C'mon! He's the maniac indiscriminately shooting people! This is NOT rocket science. "Canceled" carry permit holders do not see themselves as Capt. America out to save the world from criminals. We want to defend *ourselves* from "bad guys" if that horrible day ever befalls us. As for the cops needing to sort out the good guys from the bad guys, they will have all the time they need to do so, because they are going to show up a few minutes *after* the shooter has been taken down by the CC "good guy". I only carry 13 rounds in my gun, and I'll be empty long before any police arrive and need to determine my "good guy" status.

    Now if you where at VT and the firing started you go in the hallway and other like minded people do the same can you choose who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. I feel that one would need lots of tactical training.
    Again, what can I say other than did you think this through before typing? Why would anyone fire before identifying the target, and determining it's hostile intentions? Why would I walk out into the hallway and start randomly shooting my gun at people? You don't need tactical training, you need common sense. Unfortunately, you seem to be letting your irrational fear of firearms and emotions get in the way of your logic.

    In this world there are sheep, and sheepdogs. You appear to be one of the sheep.



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    Not hardly one of the sheep. I have spent 23 years in the army in the Infantry and Air Cavalry, and do value the need for proper tactical training. I consider a firearm a tool.I went though sniper training at Ft Campbell KY with the 101st ABN I was also a member of the combat pistol team that represented the 101st ABN at the All army combat pistol match in 1986. We placed 7th. We did win the 18th ABN corp that year. I do value the right to bear arms but I also know of the responsibility that comes with them as well.

    To find out how to sort out the proper targets go though the shoot no shoot training many Police agencies go through.

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    >>In this world there are sheep, and sheepdogs.<<

    I beg to differ, mr nakedshoplifter, there are THREE types of people in this world & you missed one.

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