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Raleigh PD stance on Open Carry

yonder

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I had a related thread on this subject that had turned into a broader discussion. I felt this email I just received should probably be the start of a NEW thread.

NC Law does permit "open carry" in non-restricted places and as such, it is permitted within Raleigh. I would hope our officers are well-informed, but since we have over 740 sworn officers, I will not make that guarantee. I will venture a guess that if you do decide to "open carry", as an agency we will receive numerous calls from citizens and you will have quite a bit of interaction with our officers. Captain Hardy
[/code]
 

yonder

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Whatever the case, I read it to mean that I can do it, I should expect to be harrassed from time to time by the RPD, but ultimately I'm not breaking any laws.

I'm wondering how the VCDL folks handled this. For those of you that are reading this, did you find it beneficial to go out in groups OC'ing to "condition" to public and police into seeing more OC and recognizing it as not a public threat?
 

Citizen

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I'm not sufficiently versed in the history of VA OC. My guess would be they just up and started doing it individually with occasional social gatherings where attendees also happened to be OC'ing.

You could experiment at creating a less dangerous environment with regard to police harassment, etc. by looking up some Code and case law and proposing a training bulletin to the sheriff. Once they see things like, "In Smurf vs N. Carolina, the NC Supreme Court held that police cannot Terry stop a citizen solely for possession of a firearm, but must consider all circumstances." they will get the idea you are serious and that you shouldn't be monkeyed with. If you go this route, you'll want to make or discover a list of the arguably sneaky things cops dowhen they stop a person, then hunt up the law in your state. For example, does NC have a law requiring you to tender ID upon LEO demand (outside a driver's license during a traffic stop?) For example, if they know you know you don't have to show ID (if true), it will possibly close off an attempt to harass you by demanding ID. Or, ifthey know you know that without reasonable suspicion a crime was, is, or will be committed they can only consenually interview you, theymay be inclined towait for reasonable suspicion before they even bother you. Dropping some hints that 911 calls are obtainable under the Freedom of Information Act (if they are in NC), would let them know you know how to find out after the factwhether they had reasonable suspicion. Police seem to like checking serial numbers. Discovering some applicable NC 4th Amendment case law related to firearms would be helpful, too.

It will take some research and time on the internet; but it may be away to educate the police andcreate an OC-friendly environment.
 

BB62

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Yonder,

Seeing that response from the Captain, this thread makes me *real* interested.

Are you going to accept his (barely hidden) challenge?
 

yonder

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Yeah it's going to take a lot of work. I'm hoping more North Carolinians will read this and step up their game. I'd like to band together with my neighbors and try to achieve the same sort of victory that Virginians have enjoyed. But I am just one man.

If anyone here is from GRNC and can tell me if this is something GRNC would be willing to take on, I will help work within that umbrella. If not, I'd still like to pursue this outside of the GRNC umbrella if need be.
 

Pa. Patriot

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I would think a reply to the captain would be in order.
One that reminded him that if he feels his officers are ill informed to deal with open carry and the possible complaint calls that it is his responsibility to ensure his officers are prepared to deal with it correctly. Remind him that it should be his best interest to do so as any "interaction" with his officers could lead to unlawful search, detention, or arrest if the officers responding are unaware or incorrect in their knowledge or opinion on the law and such happenings could at best lead to lawsuits.

His hint that interaction will occur, without mention of ensuring his officers are up to speed on the law indicates his opinion is that he woud prefer it that it did happen, which is inappropriate for his position.

An appropriate version of a training memo, as Lonnie Wilson has drafted for a couple states now would be in order.
 

acritical

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Well, I open carry every weekend, only disarming to go into restaurants that serve alcohol or places the charge admission. I purposely avoid places that post no firearms.

Been doing so for about 3 years now and so far has never been approached by an on-duty officer. Though I have been approached by an off duty and asked what precinct I work for. Once I said that I was not a police officer, he stated that he thought I was after seeing my side arm and said nothing more.
 

Mike

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yonder wrote:
For those of you that are reading this, did you find it beneficial to go out in groups OC'ing to "condition" to public and police into seeing more OC and recognizing it as not a public threat?
Why does the public need "conditioning"? And if it does, why for crying out loud would anyone want to go in "groups" - that looks abnormal as heck - I MIGHT CALL THE POLICE MYSELF!:shock:

Just go about your daily business OCing and stop worrying about it - nobody is reporting police harassment for OCing in NC, somthing which is constitutionally protected in NC from even requiring a permit.
 

BB62

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I waswas stopped about 3 years ago, at gunpoint by three police officers.

The sergeant in chargetold me that if I intended to carry in the jurisdiction where I lived, it might be nice (in an 'evil' way, understand?) tonotify mypolice departmentof my intent to do so - so officers would not have to make unnecessary quick response runs due to calls ofa "man with a gun!!"

Just something you might want to think about includingin your polite note back to the Captain - you know,the onewhere you thank him for his prompt and complete answer to your query? <<evil grin>>
 

kenpofan

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I'm going to play devils advocate here.:p



The Capt. and his officers have to investigate the calls and/or complaints.

They do not know before hand if the person with a open carry weapon is or is not a convicted felon or just a innocent citizen practicing OC.

I'd have to ask the person a few questions and then leave it at that..

Remember the Law Enforcement Officer wants to go home atthe end of his/her shift and everybody that has a gun is not legal.:shock:



I strongly support your,mine and everybody elses right to carry legally, but some folks thru their own misdeeds have forfeited that right.

They are the one's 99% of LE are concerned with.

Yeah some LE are anti-gun ,but very very few of the uniformed officers are..



IMHO.:)
 

psmartin

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kenpofan wrote:
They do not know before hand if the person with a open carry weapon is or is not a convicted felon or just a innocent citizen practicing OC.

I'd have to ask the person a few questions and then leave it at that..

Many sex offenders are barred from loitering around areaswhere children commonly gather, but that does that mean that Henrico Police have the authority to "stop & question" all adults at public parks?

Of course not, that would be ludicrous..(but, it would be "for the children".. still wouldn't fly).

I'm "luke warm" on a friendly encounterwith an officer if we just "happen to be in the same place at the same time" and I'm not asked for my ID, but if someone dials 911 in a panic, the police are dispatched, and the police waste my time & insult us.. That's a different matter.

There are people that go "berzerk" when they see a spider, and that's just not my problem.

Giving the government power to do ANYTHING is a dangerous thing. The Patriot Act is a wet dream for law enforcement.
 

kenpofan

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psmartin wrote:
kenpofan wrote:
They do not know before hand if the person with a open carry weapon is or is not a convicted felon or just a innocent citizen practicing OC.

I'd have to ask the person a few questions and then leave it at that..

Many sex offenders are barred from loitering around areaswhere children commonly gather, but that does that mean that Henrico Police have the authority to "stop & question" all adults at public parks?

Of course not, that would be ludicrous..(but, it would be "for the children".. still wouldn't fly).

I'm "luke warm" on a friendly encounterwith an officer if we just "happen to be in the same place at the same time" and I'm not asked for my ID, but if someone dials 911 in a panic, the police are dispatched, and the police waste my time & insult us.. That's a different matter.

There are people that go "berzerk" when they see a spider, and that's just not my problem.

Giving the government power to do ANYTHING is a dangerous thing. The Patriot Act is a wet dream for law enforcement.


I really don't know what the Patriot Act has to do with my comments..butpublic and officer safety laws/concerns pre-date the afor mentioned act.

I have had to question males at daycares from time to time and no they don't like it..:cuss:


I have to respond to MR and MS public when they call ,and Itruely support the right of law abiding citizens to OC and/or CC.

I didn't make the rules but I do have to enforce them..if you are a law abiding citizen you need not fear the LE community..yes they do have bad apples..but by and large LEO is your friend.



Peace.

KENPOFAN
 
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