Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Non-resident dilemma

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    For some reason I just now thought of this. Sorry for being long-winded.

    I'll be moving from CT to VA in August. I have already acquired the VA non-resident CCP application (though I will be in VA for a long time, I don't know that I'll be there "forever," so I'm going to remain a NR for a while). Once everything is in order I'm going to submit the NR application. Everything on that end seems fine.

    Where I am confused, though, is with gun purchases. According to the VSP website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm):

    Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a non-resident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.
    So when I get to VA, I'll have a NR CCP. I obviously cannot purchase a handgun in VA since I will still be a resident of CT. What, then, are my options for actually getting a handgun in VA? So far, I have come up with these:

    1. Get a CT CCP. Purchase a handgun in CT. When it's time to move to VA, find a VA gunshop and then transfer the handgun from a CT gunshop to that VA gunshop (since it wouldn't be very legal to drive through all the states between CT and VA with a handgun in the car without some authority backing me up). For the duration of my time in VA as a NR, I'll have to return to CT for all of my handgun purchases and repeat the process.

    2. Get a CT CCP. When in VA, purchase a handgun via an online vendor, have that handgun transferred to a CT gunshop, and then have that gun transferred to a VA gunshop.
    Those are the only two options I've come up with, but both include having a CCP for the state in which I am legally a resident--CT. I should have ample time to get one before I head down to VA, but I just wnat to make sure that my line of thinking is correct.

    Thanks for any and all suggestions.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    You are a resident as soon as you move in. If your renting or buying a place in Virginia... you live here.

    To prove residency... you would need to show something with your name and Virginia address. Best thing to do is turn in for state drivers license and get a Virginia license. Then your definitely a resident!!!

    State code also cites that you MUST change to a Virginia OL if you live here.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+46.2-308
    § 46.2-308. Temporary exemption for new resident licensed under laws of another state; privately owned vehicle driver's licenses.

    A resident over the age of sixteen years and three months who has been duly licensed as a driver under a law of another state or country requiring the licensing of drivers shall, for the first sixty days of his residency in the Commonwealth, be permitted, without a Virginia license, to drive a motor vehicle on the highways of the Commonwealth.

    Persons to whom military privately-owned vehicle driver's licenses have been issued by the Department of Defense shall, for the first sixty days of their residency in the Commonwealth, be permitted, without a Virginia license, to drive motor vehicles on the highways of the Commonwealth.

    (1976, c. 17, § 46.1-355.1; 1989, cc. 705, 727; 1994, c. 356; 2002, cc. 755, 767, 834.)



    Here is a definition from a code section.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+cod+38.2-1800

    "Resident" means

    (i) an individual residing in Virginia;

    (ii) an individual residing outside of Virginia whose principal place of business is in Virginia, who is able to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Commission that the laws of his home state prevent him from obtaining a resident agent license in that state, and who affirmatively chooses to qualify as and be treated as a resident of Virginia for purposes of licensing and continuing education, both in Virginia and in the state in which the individual resides, if applicable;

    (iii) a partnership duly formed and recorded in Virginia;

    (iv) a corporation incorporated and existing under the laws of Virginia;

    (v) a limited liability company organized and existing under the laws of Virginia; or

    (vi) a foreign business entity that is not licensed as a resident agent in any other jurisdiction, and that demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Commission that its principal place of business is within the Commonwealth of Virginia.



    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+38.2-1800.1

    § 38.2-1800.1. Proof of residency.

    A. For purposes of this chapter, an individual shall be deemed to be a resident of this Commonwealth provided such individual

    (i) maintains his principal place of residence within this Commonwealth, or satisfies the requirements set forth in subsection B of § 38.2-1836;

    (ii) declares himself to be a Virginia resident on his federal tax return; and

    (iii) declares himself to be a Virginia resident for purposes of paying Virginia income tax and personal property taxes; and provided that such individual is able to document the above to the satisfaction of the Commission.

    The Commission may also consider other documentation furnished by the individual, including, but not limited to, a valid current Virginia driver's license or voter registration card, as additional proof of residency.

    .....Snip


  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    No longer in Alexandria, Egypt
    Posts
    2,798

    Post imported post

    SBD (Silent But Deadly?-lol), Sounds like you're a Navy Submariner doing the old Groton to Norfolk berth shift! If you're military and living in VA under orders that counts also.

    Welcome to OCDO!

  4. #4
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,202

    Post imported post

    In my personal opinion, I would abide by whatever the minimum statutory lenght of time is required to establish residency in VA and then become a Virgin---ian. It is not a permanent situation and you can always go back. The firearm purchase becomes moot.

    I do not know if an FFL would sell a handgun to a person listing a residence in another state , even though he/she is still a legal resident of the purchase state?
    Temporary residence can create there own problems.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    LEO--thanks for the reply. I've already signed a lease agreement for an apartment in Charlottesville. So you're saying as soon as I move in (and maybe already), I'm a resident of VA? And according to the code you quoted, it sounds as if I have only 60 days to go ahead and get VA plates and a VA license. Too bad it's so expensive (in CT at least). I need to look into all that since my car and auto insurance are in my parents' names. So I guess it's not possible to live in VA for five years and remain a non-resident for that whole time.

    Thanks Bob. I'm actually not military--just a grad student. And unfortunately my handle doesn't pertain to farts--haha.



  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    In my personal opinion, I would abide by whatever the minimum statutory lenght of time is required to establish residency in VA and then become a Virgin---ian. It is not a permanent situation and you can always go back. The firearm purchase becomes moot.
    Yeah exactly--then all of these questions go out the door and I don't have to get a CT CCP (right now at least). I need to look into the residency thing though. For example, I went to school in NH for 4.5 years and never became a resident. It's probably different when you're an undergraduate living on the property of a school though.

    I do not know if an FFL would sell a handgun to a person listing a residence in another state , even though he/she is still a legal resident of the purchase state? Temporary residence can create there own problems.
    I'm not sure on this one either.

    I guess I'll just bite the bullet (money for license, plates, etc.) and go ahead and become a resident of VA. I've only been there once so far, and so far as I can tell it's a great place. Besides, five years is a long time!

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    No longer in Alexandria, Egypt
    Posts
    2,798

    Post imported post

    Hey Stinky... (lol)

    Here's the Code, there's NO time limit for residency in VA. Here's the pertinent code section:

    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
    (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308)

    D. (Effective July 1, 2007 - see Editor's notes) Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he resides, or if he is a member of the United States Armed Forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a permit to carry a concealed handgun. There shall be no requirement regarding the length of time an applicant has been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city.

    You are good to go the day you move here! And here's an early Welcome to Free America! Where will you be, Northern Virginia (NOVA), Tidewater?

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    SBD wrote:
    LEO--thanks for the reply. I've already signed a lease agreement for an apartment in Charlottesville. So you're saying as soon as I move in (and maybe already), I'm a resident of VA? And according to the code you quoted, it sounds as if I have only 60 days to go ahead and get VA plates and a VA license. Too bad it's so expensive (in CT at least). I need to look into all that since my car and auto insurance are in my parents' names. So I guess it's not possible to live in VA for five years and remain a non-resident for that whole time.

    Thanks Bob. I'm actually not military--just a grad student. And unfortunately my handle doesn't pertain to farts--haha.

    Sucks to pay taxes again in another state for something you paid taxes on already..

    You should at least switch your drivers license over. This makes things real easy for you to prove you live here. If you swap over the car tags.. cool.You just get to pay lots of taxes.

    State tax on the value of the car when you get your tagsand then localtax every year until they finally abolish it!!





  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    Hey Stinky... (lol)
    Haha. Ok--the letters stand for "Squat Bench Deadlift."

    You are good to go the day you move here! And here's an early Welcome to Free America! Where will you be, Northern Virginia (NOVA), Tidewater?
    Thanks for that info. I'll be in Charlottesville at UVa. They flew me down for a day in March and I absolutely loved everything about VA that I saw. The best part, I think, was getting to Richmond International and seeing the weather report--it was 65 that day. Back in NH (where I flew to VA from) there was 1.5 feet of snow on the ground.

    You should at least switch your drivers license over. This makes things real easy for you to prove you live here. If you swap over the car tags.. cool. You just get to pay lots of taxes.
    Yeah you're right--I wasn't thinking. I just got off the phone with friend of mine who moved to FL. He got a FL license right away but left his truck in his mother's name with CT plates on it. In other words, I don't think the two (license and tags) are connected. Then again they might be--according to the DMV site (http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/moving/newva.asp), "Title your vehicle in Virginia (do this within 30 days of moving to Virginia)" is one of the steps I have to complete upon arriving.

    The whole residency thing just confuses the hell out of me. For example, I spent last summer working in Boston. When tax time came around this April, I filled out the non-resident MA state tax form. The definition of "residency" must vary by state, because it took me a while to figure out that I wasn't actually an MA resident for the time I was there. The silly thing about my stay in VA is that I might be changing addresses every year and then will have to update my license.

    Thanks for the info guys.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    No longer in Alexandria, Egypt
    Posts
    2,798

    Post imported post

    Hey, no problem. That's what we're here for. Enjoy the board!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    SBD wrote:
    For some reason I just now thought of this. Sorry for being long-winded.

    I'll be moving from CT to VA in August. I have already acquired the VA non-resident CCP application (though I will be in VA for a long time, I don't know that I'll be there "forever," so I'm going to remain a NR for a while). Once everything is in order I'm going to submit the NR application. Everything on that end seems fine.

    Where I am confused, though, is with gun purchases. According to the VSP website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm):

    Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a non-resident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.
    So when I get to VA, I'll have a NR CCP. I obviously cannot purchase a handgun in VA since I will still be a resident of CT. What, then, are my options for actually getting a handgun in VA? So far, I have come up with these:

    1. Get a CT CCP. Purchase a handgun in CT. When it's time to move to VA, find a VA gunshop and then transfer the handgun from a CT gunshop to that VA gunshop (since it wouldn't be very legal to drive through all the states between CT and VA with a handgun in the car without some authority backing me up). For the duration of my time in VA as a NR, I'll have to return to CT for all of my handgun purchases and repeat the process.

    2. Get a CT CCP. When in VA, purchase a handgun via an online vendor, have that handgun transferred to a CT gunshop, and then have that gun transferred to a VA gunshop.
    Those are the only two options I've come up with, but both include having a CCP for the state in which I am legally a resident--CT. I should have ample time to get one before I head down to VA, but I just wnat to make sure that my line of thinking is correct.

    Thanks for any and all suggestions.
    It would be perfectly legal for you to bring your gun from Conn. to Virginia. Federal law says you can travel from a place where the gun is legal to a place where the gun is legal, and you are protected by the Firearms Owners Protection Act. There are certain stipulations, such as keeping the firearm unloaded and inaccessible in places where it is illegal to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. I honestly don't remember all the details, but is legal for a traveller to take a gun through any state in America.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    It would be perfectly legal for you to bring your gun from Conn. to Virginia. Federal law says you can travel from a place where the gun is legal to a place where the gun is legal, and you are protected by the Firearms Owners Protection Act. There are certain stipulations, such as keeping the firearm unloaded and inaccessible in places where it is illegal to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. I honestly don't remember all the details, but is legal for a traveller to take a gun through any state in America.
    Interesting. I wonder why/how states are able to restrict highway travel with firearms. Maybe those rules don't pertain to locked-up guns.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765

    Post imported post

    SBD wrote:
    Interesting. I wonder why/how states are able to restrict highway travel with firearms. Maybe those rules don't pertain to locked-up guns.
    They can restrict travel within their states.

    This governs interstate transport. Note you must be legal at point of origin and at terminus. You can only stop for brief, routine reasons (i.e. don't spend 3 days with girlfriend in MD, or whatever) such as meals, breaks, overnight stays incident to travel (these words are not coming from code, but my interpretation, so don't have the force of law; YMMV).



    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > §926A
    Interstate transportation of firearms

    "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    SBD wrote:
    It would be perfectly legal for you to bring your gun from Conn. to Virginia. Federal law says you can travel from a place where the gun is legal to a place where the gun is legal, and you are protected by the Firearms Owners Protection Act. There are certain stipulations, such as keeping the firearm unloaded and inaccessible in places where it is illegal to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. I honestly don't remember all the details, but is legal for a traveller to take a gun through any state in America.
    Interesting. I wonder why/how states are able to restrict highway travel with firearms. Maybe those rules don't pertain to locked-up guns.
    Here is one link. Scroll down to "Interstate Transportation". I'm looking for other links now. www.hardylaw.net/fopa.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    Here is another link. Read the second paragraph of the introduction. www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    Sorry, Tess. I was so busy searching and typing I didn't read your post, which explained everything quite clearly.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the clarification. Wikipedia also offers a good explanation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm...e.22_Provision


    And for anyone else who has questions about moving to VA, the DMV explains a lot of what you have to do (apparently within 30 days of moving to VA if you intend on being there more than six months):

    http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/moving/newva.asp

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the moving link. I book marked it so that I can pass it along to others.

    It would be hard to travel thru every state and not be breaking their laws in some way while transporting firearms.

    Safe passage Law is nice. Locked up and unloaded seems to be the way to go. I would think that most all states would have this as a requirement from transporting firearms.

    One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one state to another for a shooting sports event or any other lawful activity cannot be arrested for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are securely locked, unloaded, and not immediately accessible.

  19. #19
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    The short version:

    Residency requirements for the purpose of purchasing a handgun.

    1. You will need a valid VA driver's license. License must have been issued for at least 30 days.

    2. You need a 2d form of ID to verify your address. Some of the more common 2nd ID's used are:

    VA CHP
    Motor vehicle registration
    Voters registration
    utility bill.

    Everything you need to know about buying a handgun in VA, more or less
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Where I am confused, though, is with gun purchases. According to the VSP website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm):
    I think you might be confusing the 'Permit' thing.

    A "Permit" in VA is for Concealed Handgun Permit. You DO NOT need a 'permit' to purchase a handgun. You only need to be a resident, as descibed above.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    A "Permit" in VA is for Concealed Handgun Permit. You DO NOT need a 'permit' to purchase a handgun.
    I understood this.

    You only need to be a resident, as descibed above.
    This was the part that I was initially confused about. It's really obvious, but somehow I overlooked it until now.

    Thanks to everyone's help I've figured out what I am going (and have to) do--become a resident when I move down there in August.

    Thanks.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    Post imported post

    The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    36

    Post imported post

    apjonas wrote:
    The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.
    Thanks for the advice. I think that the difference for me though is that i'm a grad student, so I'll be living on my own (not on school property) and will have an actual address. I don't know why, but the VA DMV says that you have 30 days to take care of all that stuff (license, title, registration changes). They also say that a "temporary" stay in VA six months or less. I'll be in town for more like six years, so I basically will be a resident whether or not I were to make that official. But to avoid any confusion on my part I figure I might as well just make it official. As for in-state and out-of-state tuition rates, thankfully I don't have to worry about that.
    :celebrate

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    Post imported post

    :celebrateSorry about that chief. :celebrate

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,169

    Post imported post

    You misunderstand the most important point. For a student the rules are different (e.g. 6 month rule does not apply). Whether you live in a dormitory, off campus or in your car makes not a whit of difference. DMV rules come into play (unless they've changed) only if you are working (in addition to being a student). Otherwise you are free to remain a Nutmegger in Exile until you graduate. If you have plans to remain in VA (or develop them later) then I would do everything possible to show intent and effort to become a bona fide resident of the commonwealth. In this case, I would pursue in-state tuition status ASAP even if somebody else is paying the freight. I'm sure that would be appreciated by your underwriter.

    SBD wrote:
    apjonas wrote:
    The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.
    Thanks for the advice. I think that the difference for me though is that i'm a grad student, so I'll be living on my own (not on school property) and will have an actual address. I don't know why, but the VA DMV says that you have 30 days to take care of all that stuff (license, title, registration changes). They also say that a "temporary" stay in VA six months or less. I'll be in town for more like six years, so I basically will be a resident whether or not I were to make that official. But to avoid any confusion on my part I figure I might as well just make it official. As for in-state and out-of-state tuition rates, thankfully I don't have to worry about that.
    :celebrate

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •