Non-resident dilemma

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A "Permit" in VA is for Concealed Handgun Permit. You DO NOT need a 'permit' to purchase a handgun.

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I understood this.

You only need to be a resident, as descibed above.

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This was the part that I was initially confused about. It's really obvious, but somehow I overlooked it until now.

Thanks to everyone's help I've figured out what I am going (and have to) do--become a resident when I move down there in August.

Thanks.

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The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.

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apjonas wrote:

The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.

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Thanks for the advice. I think that the difference for me though is that i'm a grad student, so I'll be living on my own (not on school property) and will have an actual address. I don't know why, but the VA DMV says that you have 30 days to take care of all that stuff (license, title, registration changes). They also say that a "temporary" stay in VA six months or less. I'll be in town for more like six years, so I basically will be a resident whether or not I were to make that official. But to avoid any confusion on my part I figure I might as well just make it official. As for in-state and out-of-state tuition rates, thankfully I don't have to worry about that.
:celebrate

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:celebrateSorry about that chief. :celebrate

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You misunderstand the most important point. For a student the rules are different (e.g. 6 month rule does not apply). Whether you live in a dormitory, off campus or in your car makes not a whit of difference. DMV rules come into play (unless they've changed) only if you are working (in addition to being a student). Otherwise you are free to remain a Nutmegger in Exile until you graduate. If you have plans to remain in VA (or develop them later) then I would do everything possible to show intent and effort to become a bona fide resident of the commonwealth. In this case, I would pursue in-state tuition status ASAP even if somebody else is paying the freight. I'm sure that would be appreciated by your underwriter.

SBD wrote:

apjonas wrote:

The concept of "reside" and variants thereof (resident, residence..) varies according to the purpose. As a student, you have no requirement to change your (legal) residence to Virginia. If you work while going to school, you are not studying hard enough. No, in that case you may have to get VA license and plates but need not do anything else. It appears that VA law is flexible enough that you can be considered a "resident" for CHP even though you remain a legal CT resident. Even the federal (ATF) would probably be ok with a VA purchase. The fact that you retain a CT driver's license, in and of itself, doesn't matter although an FFL might be skittish. You need to ask yourself where you want to be a resident and what are your long term intentions. You can always qualify as a "resident" for certain purposes if need be. The one caution is that the more you do to look like a legal resident, the more likely VA will look to you for taxes, jury duty, etc. Good luck with getting in-state tuition, though! My experience is that you should make a decision and go with it. Don't try to be too clever. States have ample experience with this issue and you don't want to get bit in the rear end.

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Thanks for the advice. I think that the difference for me though is that i'm a grad student, so I'll be living on my own (not on school property) and will have an actual address. I don't know why, but the VA DMV says that you have 30 days to take care of all that stuff (license, title, registration changes). They also say that a "temporary" stay in VA six months or less. I'll be in town for more like six years, so I basically will be a resident whether or not I were to make that official. But to avoid any confusion on my part I figure I might as well just make it official. As for in-state and out-of-state tuition rates, thankfully I don't have to worry about that.
:celebrate

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You misunderstand the most important point. For a student the rules are different (e.g. 6 month rule does not apply).

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You hit the nail on the head.

I just read this:

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospectives/va.htm

(I'm not a law student--thank goodness--but it still applies).

In addition to the rules being different for students (as you said), I now also see that becoming a resident of a state takes a little more than just getting a VA license. In the case of a student in VA there is also an application process, etc.

I suggest that anyone who is confused about residency questions take a look at that link above--it explains things in plain English.

So, to close this case, I'm going to plan on remaining a CT resident for my stay in VA, even though it's going to be long. I'll start the CCP process for CT this week and mail my VA NR CCP application once I get a copy of my hunter certificate from NH Fish & Game.

When August roles around I'll hopefully LEGALLY drive from CT to VA with my first firearm.

Thanks for pointing that out apjonas.

:celebrate

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SBD wrote:

You misunderstand the most important point. For a student the rules are different (e.g. 6 month rule does not apply).

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You hit the nail on the head.

I just read this:

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospectives/va.htm

(I'm not a law student--thank goodness--but it still applies).

In addition to the rules being different for students (as you said), I now also see that becoming a resident of a state takes a little more than just getting a VA license. In the case of a student in VA there is also an application process, etc.

I suggest that anyone who is confused about residency questions take a look at that link above--it explains things in plain English.

So, to close this case, I'm going to plan on remaining a CT resident for my stay in VA, even though it's going to be long. I'll start the CCP process for CT this week and mail my VA NR CCP application once I get a copy of my hunter certificate from NH Fish & Game.

When August roles around I'll hopefully LEGALLY drive from CT to VA with my first firearm.

Thanks for pointing that out apjonas.

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If your reading this:

Q: How long must I be domiciled in Virginia before I can be considered "in-state"?
A: A student, parent(s) or spouse must be domiciled in Virginia for at least 12 continuous months immediately preceding the first day of classes. This means the student parent(s) or spouse must actually reside in Virginia during this period while simultaneously demonstrating their intent to be domiciled in Virginia. Intent is demonstrated by, among other things, paying resident taxes to Virginia, obtaining a Virginia driver's license, car & voter registrations.


That page makes reference to the following code section...

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+23-7.4

§ 23-7.4. Eligibility for in-state tuition charges.



I do not think it actually applies to you for residency. 12 Months quotedis not a state code but appears to be geared toward education and the need to prevent outsiders from popping in to get education benefits.

I still believe that once you move in and change over your license your good to go. The FFL dealer is not going to ask you how long you have lived in Virginia. The education system will.

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LEO229 is quite correct and it sounds if you are still mixing up different things. The application you reference is to become a VA resident - for purposes of in-state tuition. No application is needed to become a legal resident of VA (other than incidentally such as when you get a DL or register to vote). Nothing is more difficult than changing from non-resident to resident in the context of tuition. Most states will be very liberal in considering you to be a resident when it means the money flow is from you to them. Not so the other way. Becoming a resident for most things is fairly easy and it is necessary, but not sufficient, to do so if you ever hope to get in-state tuition or other benefits (there usually aren't many) that accrue to "in-staters." If you don't care - stay with CT. The only advantage in the carry realm is the GFSZ exception. I don't know what the state law is but you might be able to get a pass on the federal statute as a "resident."

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Unless you really want to become a VA resident (six years is a long time), I would not change my license over simply to grease the skids for an FFL encounter. There are other ways to prove you reside in VA (for FFL purposes) and starting to accumulate the accoutrements of legal residency may cause you difficulties down the road. Of course, if you are also working then you are stuck with the DL/vehicle registration requirement (no need to do so otherwise) but at least you can say that it wasn't voluntary on your part. In your case, everything should be fine but when some multi-billionaire dies, states go bananas :celebrate:celebrateclaiming the corpse, excuse me, decedent as a resident because they want a cut of the estate and one of his 15 homes was a timeshare in their state that he set foot in once. It's called the "Howard Hughes Syndrome."

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LEO and apjonas are both right. I think what I'm doing is a combination of mixing things up (school consideration vs. real-world consideration) and not actually saying what I mean.

Yes, the application tied to the link I posted is in fact for school purposes only, and I realized that (although I don't think I made that very clear in my last post). In fact, for the purposes of school I don't think I'll ever need to change my residency--they're giving me the stuff for free so it doesn't seem like it would matter whether or not they are giving away stuff for free at full cost or at a discounted cost. And you're right--those schools look you over with a magnifying glass when you're trying to change your residency to get a discount.

To be honest, at this point in my life my residency doesn't really matter to me--I just want to get down to VA in one piece and have a good time for the while that I'll be there. I'm actually not allowed to get a job with anyone other than my school, so I won't have to worry about changing DL and vehicle stuff for that purpose.

As far as dealing with FFLs goes, I actually spent most of my shift at work last night mad about how I won't be able to purchase firearms in VA while a CT resident. But as apjonas just pointed out, that might not be the case.

I already have a lease agreement and an apartment in place--do you think that will be sufficient for firearms purchases while in VA? Hopefully it will be, as driving back to CT every time I want a new gun would be a little bit :celebrate.

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NO!! that will NOT be suffiecent!!!!!!!!!!!All other 'residency' requirements DO NOT apply to firearms laws. READ MY FIRST POST. THAT is what you will need to buy a handgun in Virginia. "Probably be OK with it' probably doesn't fly in the FFL world. "Skittish' yes they will be and that will mean NO transaction.

For the purpose of buying a handgun:"To establish personal identification and residence in Virginia for purposes of this section, a dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense, and other documentation of residence. Except where the photo-identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, the other documentation of residence shall show an address identical to that shown on the photo-identification form, such as evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c) voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e) passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g) hunting or fishing license; other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by Part 178.124 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or other documentation of residence determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Virginia. Where the photo-identification was issued by the Department of Defense, permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a duty post in Virginia shall be the only other required documentation of residence. For the purposes of this section and establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency shall be deemed to be the permanent duty post of a member of the armed forces. When the photo-identification presented to a dealer by the prospective purchaser is a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and such identification form contains a date of issue, the dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue of the driver's license was more than 30 days prior to the attempted purchase.

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SBD,

I think you're doing the right thing by getting both your CT pistol permit (which you absolutely musthave if you wantto lawfully purchase, possess and carry handguns inCT)and a non-resident VA Concealed handgun license.

Both are relatively easy to get. FYI - my wife got her CT pistol permitin 2-3 weeks as ourtown PD hadone of those niftydigital fingerprint scanners. VA took me a little longer (60 days +/-).

Here is something to think about fromCT law point of view. If you are living off-campus (rentingin privately-owned housing) then the situation has gotten a little murkier, I think.

Here's something you should consider very carefully: CT law requires a holder of a valid CTpistol permit to notify the CT state police ASAP (for all intents and purposes) of a change in address. Failure to do so is a FELONY OFFENSE in CT!

You must determine if your status as a student in VA affects your prevailing legaladdress (regardless of whether it is in CT or not).

The safest thing to do from CT's perspective ...when in doubt notify CT state police of your change in address (in VA)after you've gotten your CTpistol permit. You can change it as many times as you want. Your permit is still valid wherever you are (there is no resident or non-resident distinction apart from the application process).

-slut

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VAopencarry--
So I guess I either misread apjonas' message or he's wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

slut--
I agree, and yes, I just read that restriction about an hour ago. Apparently you have three days to notify CT state police of an address change or your troubles begin with a $500 fine and then pile up from there. A friend of mine got his CCP in about five weeks, so it looks like our town is pretty quick, too. Thanks for the info.

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Or perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. Let me distill the issue:

1. It is possible to be a "resident" of Virgina for purposes of purchasing a handgun (or getting a CHP for that matter) while still being a (legal) resident of Connecticut for all other purposes.

2. I will defer to VAOC as to what the state laws are for establishing "residency" for this purpose. However, I will note that a VA driver's license is not required. I don't see why you should not be able to gather what is necessary. I would not volunteer the nature of your situation to a VA FFL since he may not be familiar with the details of the law and refuse to sell out of extreme caution.

3. On my passport I justwrite in my address so that should be an easy one. If your school ID shows your VA address, that may work (at least if it's a state school).

4. Since the documentation requirements for purchase are unique, you should be able to purchase without changing anything else. I am still unsure if you will be working but if you won't, there is no requirement to get a VA DL or change your vehicle registration.

5. Much of what I said relates to in-state tuition and other issues of legal residency. I apologize if it confused this issue. I was just looking out for you down the road.

6. And don't forget the one a month law. You will be limited to 72 purchases :what:during your sojourn. If anybody disagrees with something I've said, please be precise in your correction so SBD doesn't get an ulcer.:celebrate





SBD wrote:

VAopencarry--
So I guess I either misread apjonas' message or he's wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

slut--
I agree, and yes, I just read that restriction about an hour ago. Apparently you have three days to notify CT state police of an address change or your troubles begin with a $500 fine and then pile up from there. A friend of mine got his CCP in about five weeks, so it looks like our town is pretty quick, too. Thanks for the info.

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If anybody disagrees with something I've said, please be precise in your correction so SBD doesn't get an ulcer.:celebrate

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Haha, I won't--this is more interesting than it is frustrating. Plus it could probably help others out.

1. It is possible to be a "resident" of Virgina for purposes of purchasing a handgun (or getting a CHP for that matter) while still being a (legal) resident of Connecticut for all other purposes.

2. I will defer to VAOC as to what the state laws are for establishing "residency" for this purpose. However, I will note that a VA driver's license is not required. I don't see why you should not be able to gather what is necessary. I would not volunteer the nature of your situation to a VA FFL since he may not be familiar with the details of the law and refuse to sell out of extreme caution.

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This is probably the most confusing thing (in general). In my case, I plan to get a resident CT CCP and a non-resident VA CCP. The reason for this is that I don't plan on becoming a "real" VA resident (ie paying taxes, changing my car over to VA) at this point. It's almost like "why bother." Again, this viewpoint may change. Because I'm going to be a student, I think I am shielded from buffer periods (such as the DMV's "change your title and registration with 30 days of moving to VA"). Anyone--correct me if you think I'm wrong on this front.

With that said, if I were to approach an FFL situation in VA and say "let me buy this Smith & Wesson--I'm a VA resident," I'm not sure that that would be bought. As per the VA State Police (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm):

The primary form of ID for a non-Virginia resident, for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun, must consist of a valid photo-ID issued by a governmental agency of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denote the purchaser’s name, race, sex, date of birth and address. Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a non-resident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

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I think this is what VAOC was reiterating. If I am to purchase a long gun in VA, my photo ID proof and secondary proof have to match in the same direction, and then the FFL will transfer the piece back to CT. In the case of a handgun, the FFL would be correct in denying my purchase since I won't have a photo ID and secondary proof that both say something about VA on them, and I'd be SOL.

3. On my passport I just write in my address so that should be an easy one. If your school ID shows your VA address, that may work (at least if it's a state school).

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I don't think this will fly, since the school ID probably won't fit the "governmental agency" category.

4. Since the documentation requirements for purchase are unique, you should be able to purchase without changing anything else. I am still unsure if you will be working but if you won't, there is no requirement to get a VA DL or change your vehicle registration.

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I won't be technically "working"--the only income I'm allowed is from the school.

5. Much of what I said relates to in-state tuition and other issues of legal residency. I apologize if it confused this issue. I was just looking out for you down the road.

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No problem, and I appreciate that--the info was useful and did clear things up for me.

6. And don't forget the one a month law. You will be limited to 72 purchases :what:during your sojourn.

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Which is great, but I think that where I stand is that I'll have to go back to CT to purchase handguns. It doesn't look like the "mixed bag" residency scheme will actually work, especially since it's not really necessary to get a VA driver's license.

Anyone please chime in if you can think of any alternatives/caveats that I've missed.

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SBD wrote:

This is probably the most confusing thing (in general). In my case, I plan to get a resident CT CCP and a non-resident VA CCP. The reason for this is that I don't plan on becoming a "real" VA resident (ie paying taxes, changing my car over to VA) at this point. It's almost like "why bother."

... SNIP...

Anyone please chime in if you can think of any alternatives/caveats that I've missed.

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Being a resident somewhere other than you're actually living could present some small headaches. What about jury duty? Much more of a pain in the butt to go back to CT to sit a jury than to go across town. If I remember correctly, you're planning on being in VA for 6 years, I'd imagine that during that time you're going to need to renew the registration on your cars, and probably your driver's licence. Heck, over that much time, you may even get/register a new(er) car. All of these things are probably easier to do locally. On the taxes front, if you're getting income from UVA, VA is going to want a cut. If you've been living full time in VA for a few years, you may have a hard time convincing VA that you're still a CT resident.

Just some food for thought...

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Just some food for thought...

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Yeah those are good points. The issue is that remaining a CT resident is easier in the short-run, but becoming a VA resident is more convenient in the long-run (six years is a long time, isn't it :exclaim.

Either way, I've registered for a CCP class here in CT that takes place this Saturday. I need it for a CT CCP, but not for VA (VA accepts hunter certification). So we'll see--maybe I'll ride the non-resident status in VA for a while and then change over.

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SBD wrote:

For some reason I just now thought of this. Sorry for being long-winded.

I'll be moving from CT to VA in August. I have already acquired the VA non-resident CCP application (though I will be in VA for a long time, I don't know that I'll be there "forever," so I'm going to remain a NR for a while). Once everything is in order I'm going to submit the NR application. Everything on that end seems fine.

Where I am confused, though, is with gun purchases. According to the VSP website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm):

Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a non-resident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

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So when I get to VA, I'll have a NR CCP. I obviously cannot purchase a handgun in VA since I will still be a resident of CT. What, then, are my options for actually getting a handgun in VA? So far, I have come up with these:

1. Get a CT CCP. Purchase a handgun in CT. When it's time to move to VA, find a VA gunshop and then transfer the handgun from a CT gunshop to that VA gunshop (since it wouldn't be very legal to drive through all the states between CT and VA with a handgun in the car without some authority backing me up). For the duration of my time in VA as a NR, I'll have to return to CT for all of my handgun purchases and repeat the process.

2. Get a CT CCP. When in VA, purchase a handgun via an online vendor, have that handgun transferred to a CT gunshop, and then have that gun transferred to a VA gunshop.

​

Those are the only two options I've come up with, but both include having a CCP for the state in which I am legally a resident--CT. I should have ample time to get one before I head down to VA, but I just wnat to make sure that my line of thinking is correct.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

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I just saw this post - this is simple:

1. Your VA CHP is valid in VA no matter where you live on earth until it expires.

2. If you reside in VA and obtain Commonwealth ID with your address on it, you will have no trouble buying handguns here. Additonally, DOD ID may be used as primary ID.

3. If you buy a handgun in CT while you reside there, you can bring it on down here when you move without any FFL involvement.

4. If you don'tt get the IDs in #2, and you reside in VA (regardless of your domicile), you may buy handguns in VA in private sales.

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SBD wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I think that the difference for me though is that i'm a grad student, so I'll be living on my own (not on school property) and will have an actual address. I don't know why, but the VA DMV says that you have 30 days to take care of all that stuff (license, title, registration changes). They also say that a "temporary" stay in VA six months or less. I'll be in town for more like six years, so I basically will be a resident whether or not I were to make that official. But to avoid any confusion on my part I figure I might as well just make it official. As for in-state and out-of-state tuition rates, thankfully I don't have to worry about that.

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As a college student, VA statutes exempt you from obtaining a VA DL or plates for your casr(s).

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As a college student, VA statutes exempt you from obtaining a VA DL or plates for your casr(s).

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I thought so. If the same applies for other parts of everyday life (ie jury duty, etc.), then maybe there's no point at all in changing my domicile.