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Thread: Range Bag - Concealed weapons?

  1. #1
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    I have a question regarding the legality of carrying handguns in and out of the shooting range while "concealed" in a range bag or gun case. Like many I use a range bag and I carry at least 2 handguns, plus ammo, when going shooting.

    When traveling the bag is locked in the trunk of the car. I will preload mags at home to save time at the range, so the mags are loaded plus I have boxed ammo for revolver use in the same bag.

    So I arrive at the range and take the bag out of the trunk. It appears to me that walking across the parking lot with that bag I am illegally carrying a concealed weapon. Yet what other choices are there? Other than open carrying with a holster on each hip, and holding any extras in my hand, or gathering them all up in my arms I don't see any legal method of getting them across the parking lot.

    Am I confused on the law, or do special conditions apply for this type of "concealed" carry? The way I read the law it is either in the open or concealed, and in a range bag they would be considered concealed.

    To tell you the truth this was never a problem before as I had a CHP and concealed carry wasn't an issue. But I missed my renewal ('oldtimers' syndrome) and my CHP expired, so I have had to re-apply for another. Being without a CHP has caused me to consider the legality of carrying them in the range bag, and I certainly don't want to be convicted of something that will prevent me from obtaining another CHP.

    Anybody have any thoughts or references I can check on this subject. It seems everyone does it, but that doesn't mean it's legal. And the best I can tell in VA it is OK to have the handguns and loaded mags in the same bag as long as they are locked in the trunk.





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    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308



    18.2-308-Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.



    B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;







    I think that does helps, no?
    -Unrequited

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    I've remembered seeing the term "overt action" used in situations such as this. Transporting them in a car or I guess even carrying them across a parking lot unloaded with magazines out of it, etc would require an overt action for you to retrieve and load your firearms before being able to fire them. I guess how 'secure' the firearms/ammo is would be at the discretion of the officer, but I think you'd definitely have to make an overt action to be a threat to anybody with them... if you in fact were someone who would be a threat.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Some of this might help

    Supreme court gun cases

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I doubt any LEO is going to hang outside and check your bag any way.

    Most would understand you were inside shooting and now your returning to your car where you would need to secure them prior to drive off.

    But it does raise a good question it you were stopped because you "fit the description"

    "weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped"

    I think the unloaded gun stored in the bag would be OK with me. There is no intent to break the law here as you are just going back to your car. What are the alternatives??

    You have no holster... if it is in your hand you can get popped with brandishing!

    So IMO keeping it unloaded in the bag where it is not likely to fall out and scare people... you would be OK.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I doubt any LEO is going to hang outside and check your bag any way.

    Most would understand you were inside shooting and now your returning to your car where you would need to secure them prior to drive off.

    But it does raise a good question it you were stopped because you "fit the description"

    "weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped"

    I think the unloaded gun stored in the bag would be OK with me. There is no intent to break the law here as you are just going back to your car. What are the alternatives??

    You have no holster... if it is in your hand you can get popped with brandishing!

    So IMO keeping it unloaded in the bag where it is not likely to fall out and scare people... you would be OK.
    i would think this could happen, but i wouldn't say it will happen.

    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

    one of the shops i go to requires you to either bring in the weapon cased or carry it in with the action open. if holstered, just don't pull it out. i haven't carried in there knowing i needed to handle my firearm, but if i do i plan to have it in my hand, action open. oh yeah, it's a police supply store, so when the day comes, i'm sure i'll be seen by at least 1 LEO.

    edit: added code cite to avoid possible penalty flags

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    Anyone near a shooting range should expect to see guns. So unless the person was pointing it at people... I would not be giving out a ticket. The caller can get his own warrant if he feels that strongly about it.

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    Before I got my CHL I took great pains to ensure that the pistol(s) were unloaded and locked in a secure case and the mags and ammo were also in a separate and locked container.

    I must have looked somewhat dorky carrying all of those locked boxes into the range but I was not going to take any chances.



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    GoldDot wrote:
    Before I got my CHL I took great pains to ensure that the pistol(s) were unloaded and locked in a secure case and the mags and ammo were also in a separate and locked container.

    I must have looked somewhat dorky carrying all of those locked boxes into the range but I was not going to take any chances.
    Nothing wrong in what you did... You followed the letter of the law and nobody can fault you for that.

    LEOs do not hang out at the gun range to spot check people and try to catch them breaking CC laws.

    As I said above... it would benormal to seeyou with a gun out in the open as you enter to go shooting.


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    Actually, this brings up a good point...

    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?

    I suppose this would apply to speedloaders, as well...

    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Actually, this brings up a good point...

    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?

    I suppose this would apply to speedloaders, as well...

    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    If they are in the bag hidden from view... They have to be unloaded securely wrapped. But what exactly does that mean? In a locked container or what? It does not say apart from ammo.. just unloaded. IMO.. the ammo can be with it just not in it.

    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.


    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Actually, this brings up a good point...

    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?

    I suppose this would apply to speedloaders, as well...

    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    If they are in the bag hidden from view... They have to be unloaded securely wrapped. But what exactly does that mean? In a locked container or what? It does not say apart from ammo.. just unloaded. IMO.. the ammo can be with it just not in it.

    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.


    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;
    What you just quoted clearly states that the WEAPONS need to be unloaded if concealed, magazines and speed loaders are not WEAPONS.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Actually, this brings up a good point...

    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?

    I suppose this would apply to speedloaders, as well...

    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    If they are in the bag hidden from view... They have to be unloaded securely wrapped. But what exactly does that mean? In a locked container or what? It does not say apart from ammo.. just unloaded. IMO.. the ammo can be with it just not in it.

    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.


    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;
    What you just quoted clearly states that the WEAPONS need to be unloaded if concealed, magazines and speed loaders are not WEAPONS.
    What exactly was your point?

    The questioninvolved storing mags in the safe container as weapon but not actually IN the weapon.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Actually, this brings up a good point...

    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?

    I suppose this would apply to speedloaders, as well...

    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    If they are in the bag hidden from view... They have to be unloaded securely wrapped. But what exactly does that mean? In a locked container or what? It does not say apart from ammo.. just unloaded. IMO.. the ammo can be with it just not in it.

    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.


    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;
    What you just quoted clearly states that the WEAPONS need to be unloaded if concealed, magazines and speed loaders are not WEAPONS.
    What exactly was your point?

    The questioninvolved storing mags in the safe container as weapon but not actually IN the weapon.
    My point, which I thought was quite clear, is that there's nothing in the code you cited that would preclude one from having loaded magazines/speed loaders in the range bag WITH the weapon, as long as the weapon itself were unloaded, which is exactly what AbNo asked.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    My point, which I thought was quite clear, is that there's nothing in the code you cited that would preclude one from having loaded magazines/speed loaders in the range bag WITH the weapon, as long as the weapon itself were unloaded, which is exactly what AbNo asked.
    You can conceal ammo all you want.I think most everyone would identify that mags, speed loaders, and ammo are not weapons. This is why I was not sure what point you were making. Your were stating something that was blatantly obvious.

    I believe the question was geared more towards a "weapon" being stored WITH the ammo in the same container.


    What about storing loaded mags, but not in the weapon?
    Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?
    The question reworded... "Can the weapon be transported unloaded in a secure container if the ammo source is readily available in the same container?"

    Answer.. Yes.

    Your response was just not very clear but you were hitting the right area.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I believe the question was geared more towards a "weapon" being stored WITH the ammo in the same container.

    Actually, this was what I was asking....

    "Can I keep loaded mags with my unloaded gun while I'm going to/from the range?"

    To clarify, and cite a specific example, can I toss my pistols, and the loaded mags in my range bad and go, as long as the loaded mags are NOT in the weapons?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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