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Thread: Carry outside of CONUS

  1. #1
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    Here is a question I hope someone can answer. How does reciprocity CC or OC work in Puerto Rico. Anyone?

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Puerto Rico does not honor any states permit.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USReciprocity.pdf


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Hi there,

    Under Puerto Rico law there is no reciprocity for out of state citizens toposses/carry firearms -evenif that citizen holds a fireams license/permit from a jurisdiction other than Puerto Rico.

    However, any US citizen can apply for a Puerto Rico firearms license, regardless of the citizen's state of residence -
    25 LPRA 456a (I doubt thatanyonehas done this before, asdoing itwould bean extremely tedious process, but theoretically it can be done). This license will allow you to posses up to two firearms in your domicile (where you plan to spend the night) and up to 50 rounds per firearm. You are not limited to the number of firearms you can posses in your domicile with a shooting permit - 25 LPRA 457c. A temporary shooting permit is also available - 25 LPRA 457d (an example of the petition for the permit can be viewed here).

    Upon obaining a Puerto Rico firearms license, that citizen can petition a Puerto Rico court for a permit tocarry firearms in a concealed manneron any jurisdictionofPuerto Rico - 25 LPRA 456d. The thing is that you need to prove to the court that you fear for your safety while you are in Puerto Rico. Heres where you'll have to get creativewhen youarticulate your need for a firearm while you stay in Puerto Rico - an example could be that you fear for your safety should you be selected by a criminal for a carjacking, an ATM robbery, etc.

    Disclaimer, I'm not an attorney, just reading off the statutes.

    Hope it helps.

    Link to Michie's Legal Resources for Puerto Rico - Puerto Rico Arms Act of 2000.

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    Great first post...
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    Great first post...

    Agree, cagueits, looks like you'll fit right in, here. I've thought of looking for some scuba diving opportunities in PR and this is good stuff to know.

    You said the "firearms" license (not the shooting or carry) is a tedious process, but is it worth the trouble, or will they just make you fill out lots of paperwork and then automatically deny you?

    And if you can get one, how long would it take? Is there a fee?

    EDIT: Looks like, after reading it, it's a $100 tax stamp, and your one or two weapons have to be registered (otherwise, how would they know you only have two...but of course, how do they know, anyway). Also you need 3 character references. Seems too much to go through, only to have to leave it in your hotel room to be stolen...


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    If you like to SCUBA, you'll like Puerto Rico's waters - I was out last week and water temp was 85degF/clear down to 60ft+. Get in contact with Nestor at the link below (he's got TUSA rigs for rentat $35 and boat tours are $65), really nice down to earth guy to do business with (unlike the other stores who have serious attitude problems). I'm also working with him to make his webpage a fully english/spanish one, I think we are halfway there.

    http://www.borinquenscubaworld.com

    The firearms law changed recently (2002) and the firearms license is a shall-issue one - if you meet the criteria (no felony, mental problems, etc). The license is good for 5yrs and allows you to take your firearm from start of trip to final destination within the island - as long as it is cased (example - you can putyour firearmin your backpack if it is on a locked case/separate from the ammoand head out from a hotel/villa in the east part of the island to hotel/villa/someones houseon the west side of the island, etc).

    I got my firearms license while in the military and I traveledfrequently back and forth from CONUS to PR with firearms - no hassle as long as you have the paperwork in order. The law states the firearms license mustbe issued to youwithin120 days -unless you don't meet the criteria stated in 25 LPRA 456a. The firearms license is mailed to you and you do not need to be here to request one (an attorney in PR can do the paperwork for you). I'm sure the three sworn statements can be done by a notary on CONUS, as long as you include a certificate fromthe County Court (verified at the state level) that states the notary who took the sworn statements is in good standing. The criminal record and child support certificate can also be obtained by an attorney here. You'll need to get two FBI style finger print cards done by a local LE agency (if I'm not mistaken the closest Sherrif's office to where you live can do it for a fee), two 2" x 2" color photos, and a sworn statement stating that your firearms will be taken from you if you do not abide by the fiscal laws of PR. If after submitting all the paperwork you get your firearms license (you can also request your shooting permit together with your firearms license, you just need to maintain membership with a gun club on the island - if you'll be visiting only, I see no need for this, unless you want to compete on IDPA/IPSC [a link to the local club is at the very bottom] - the provisional shooting permit is there for that; theres also a hunting permit that I didn't mentioned before - if anyone is interested on that just let me know), all you have left is to complete a firearms safety course on the island within 60 days of the date the firearms licensewas issued by the State Police. The 60 day deadlinecan be extended for an aditional 60 days if you file a request to do so. If you do not turn in the safety course certificate on time, you'll pay a $100 fine per month for up to six months - at that point the licensewill berevoked and any firearms/ammo that you left behind on the island will be confiscated.

    Then comes the hard part, going to court to get the carry permit. The court fee is $250, another sworn statemen be three people who know you (you can have them come over to your day in court instead, but no one really does that), another child support and criminal record certificate and $35 in court fees. You or your attorney go at it with the judge/DA and they tell you either you get it or you don't - I did mine pro se and both the DA and the judge were giving me a hard time until I told them I was a former Marine, stated the carjacking/ATM/taveling at night issues,etc. I got after that, so no big deal if you are truthful - if you have money to come down on vacation quite frequently (as in SCUBA vacations every 2-3 months) I see no problem with the courts having to give it to you (after all you are a law abiding citizen). The carry permit expires the same day your firearms license does. Renewal for the carry permit is an administrative matter handled by the State Police - you only go to court once to get it. Renewal for the carry permit is $100/ the firearms license is another $100 and of course another criminal record and child support certificate. I think that summs it all.

    Your firearms have to be registered with the State Police (if a LEOwants, your firearm's serial # can be verified against theinfo on the computer - kinda like a database in the fashion of VCIN in VA or NCIC at the fed level). If an FFL transfers a firearm to you, he will log on your firearm's info on the State Police system automatically over the internet.

    So, your initial 5 year firearms license with carry permit can take up to 6 months to get and cost you around $500-$700, depending on if you use an attoney or not during the court phase. I don't know if you really want to spend that kind of money to be armed around here - I for sure know I wouldn't want to be around here without a gun. If you, or anyone else, is interestedin requesting the firearms license, let me know - a friend of mine is an attoney and he owes me some favors + I do legal research for him from time to time; we may be able to swing something to give the firearms license a try - as far as I know, no one has done it living out of state.

    Heres the link to my cross-postat defensivecarry.com (what used to be combatcarry.com), I posted quite a few links that have to do with tourism in the island, you might want to check them out:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20987

    Too bad you guys weren't around when I was stationedat MCB Quantico - I would've loved to go out and see those open carry moments with the NOVA cops.

    Take care, let me know if you need more info.


    Link to IPSC club in Puerto Rico:

    http://tiropracticopr.com/

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    cagueits wrote:
    ...Then comes the hard part, going to court to get the carry permit.
    ...then comes the hard part? Wow. The firearms license process rivals Jersey... *shudder* Jersey...

    cagueits wrote:
    So, your initial 5 year firearms license with carry permit can take up to 6 months to get and cost you around $500-$700, depending on if you use an attoney or not during the court phase.
    Might as well pick a vacation spot which is carry-friendly and use that extra cash for a new gun. > )

    I'm assuming Hawaii is just as bad, but Alaska? That might be a very fun carry vacation.
    -Unrequited

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    Dealing with the State Police is the easy part of the process -it is just basically "here is my paperwork", "give me my license" kinda deal. The courts, theres just luck of the draw on what judge/DA is gona handle your case - as you go to criminal court to make your case (the appeal's court is pretty good and fast though, so I say you have a pretty good chance in the process).

    If you have other CONUS destinations you can go to, go there before thinking about PR. Hawai I think is worst than us at this time, as the Chief of Police has the last sayso on the permit issue. Alaska you only need a drivers license if I'm not mistaken - you just haveto deal with the extreme cold weather.I would visit PR instead of a foreign country because you are protected by the US Constitution here and, even though is hard, you could actually have a good chance of geting a carry license - Iwas stationedin Panama for a few years, and there you needed to be at least a legal resident alien to get a carry permit ($200,000 bond to be a legal resident alien - you can buy a house with that kind of money).

    Visit the tourism links over at defensivecarry.com and decide if you want to come down here/how often you want to do it (there are $99 air round trip tickets from Florida every once in a while at travelocity.com). Theres a lot of crime down here on the metro areas, but this place is rich in culture and places to visit - old forts, caves, rainforests, waterfalls, arrid zones, luminescen bays, blue flag beaches, pro fishing/surfing/deep SCUBA/skydiving, eco trips, and the list keeps going. We are only 100 miles long by 35 miles wide, so you can move around the whole island and visit quite a few attractions/offerings pretty quickly. You probably won't need a firearm on guided tours, but if you want to venture out on your own - wich you of course will... well you know what you have to do now. When you start looking into the no passport needed, medical facilites are at par with CONUS, decent LE/Rescue... do the math. I personally don't wana go no where I lose my constitutional rights. Here you geta foreign style "flavor" trip without really leaving theUS legal system and its protections.

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    I agree with your thoughts on staying in the US, cagueits.

    And although as unrequitted says PR seems alot like NJ, it is nice that getting a carry permit is actually a good posiblility (in NJ, unless you are someone special you may as well forget it).

    But that whole process seems lenghty and expensive. If I'm just gonna visit for a 3-day scuba trip I'd have to pass and just try to stay away from the high-crime areas.

    And I guess moving to PR someday would be a no-go, as I own too many toys to spend that kind of smash every year.FL. Keys would be a better deal, I think.

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    I hear you, I'm just finishing my bachelors degree with the GI Bill and hopefuly law school through the state DVA - after that I'm moving back to CONUS (its kinda crazyto live down here more than a couple of years). No open carry, SBRs, machineguns, silencers, ect; I'm definetly going to either VA or NV.

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    Dumb question: You don't need a passport to go to PR, right?

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    Nope, drivers license will do just fine - for all admin purposes we are another state of the Union (puertoricans are US citizens), the only thing we differ from the States is the culture/language, the federal voting/representation issue and that we don't pay federal taxes.

    If you plan to leave the USA from Puerto Rico on a commuter flight/ferry for a day or two to another country (i.e. to the shaded islands on the image below), you'll definetly need a US Passport on your way back to Puerto Rico/CONUS. Some islands you can travel to without a passport, but since you need one to re-enter the USA... you can't really travel out from Puerto Rico/USA... unless you go to the US Virgin Islands, Vieques, Culebra and I think theres another place you can go to (British Virgin Islands?), but I just can't remember right now.


    The Puerto Rico firearms license/carry permit is good on Vieques and Culebra - they are municipalities of Puerto Rico. I think the US Virgin Islands' Chief of Police has discretionary powers to issue temporary firearms licenses/carry permits - don't quote me on that (you'll have to contact them directly as they do not fall under Puerto Rico's jurisdiction).




  13. #13
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    Look into the US Virgin Islands, lot better than PR.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Look into the US Virgin Islands, lot better than PR.
    Indeed in many areas.

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Look into the US Virgin Islands, lot better than PR.
    Without a doubt, been to PR several times and it's more of a poo hole than lots of 3rd world countries I've been to.

    Diving in the South China Sea is superb & Truk Lagoon, Micronesia is one of the best spots for diving in the world.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Look into the US Virgin Islands, lot better than PR.
    Without a doubt, been to PR several times and it's more of a poo hole than lots of 3rd world countries I've been to.

    Diving in the South China Sea is superb & Truk Lagoon, Micronesia is one of the best spots for diving in the world.
    OC dive trip anyone? :P

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