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Thread: Careful What You Write

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    From time to time somebody will post something unwise. Until now I've not really been able to cite a source for how poorly-considered words written on the Internet can be used against you. Here is something from somebody ina position to know: Massad Ayoob writing in Backwoods Home Magazine.

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob105.html

    SNIP

    ....Last issue Dave Duffy also told you the story of Matt Bandy and some pretty scary stuff about computer security that you REALLY need to know. He and the experts whom he sources know a whole lot more about that than I, but I can add one thing to that discussion: I’m in my 34th year as a sworn police officer, my 19th as a certified “police prosecutor,” and I know for a fact that we DO have the technology to pull things out of your hard drive that you thought were deleted. We DO have the right to ask you, under penalty of perjury, whether you post on any Internet forum, and under what name, and we DO have the power to subpoena any posts via your IP from the Internet hosts, who under law have no choice but to “give you up.” Don’t let the seeming anonymity of the Internet delude you: when things get serious, you won’t be anonymous anymore.

    The entire article is a good read. In fact there are a number of columns chock full of interesting information if youback up to thehomepage and find the link.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Yep, I knew some computer forensics guys who could recreate what was on a HD at almost any point in the past, even if files were erased and the drive was formatted.

    It's all ONES and ZEROES and they have super sensitive gear that can now detect how many times a bit has been "flipped" from a ONE to a ZERO and vice-versa.

    There is no true anonymity on the net, everything is tied and traceable to your IP address/computer, your ISP and your account with them.

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    Handbook for bloggers and cyber-dissidentsby Reporters Without Borders.

    http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=542

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    OK, well I knew they had the technology but do not get the point of your post. Don't confess to murder on the internet? Why do I or other law abiding citizens need to worry about what can be found on my hard drive?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    That's why I use buckshot to erase sensitive information on hard drives.

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    That's why I use buckshot to erase sensitive information on hard drives.
    Same here..........
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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Even an off hand joke can be used in court against you.

    I actually saw this in a murder trial. The guy posted his plan to dispatch USDA meat inspectors and how he planed to grind them into sausage and sell them in his store.

    That internet posting was used as evidence of premeditation in his subsequent trial for murdering three meat inspectors months later in his factory.

    You can even be prosecuted if you click to a site you find in google and it downloads a few child porn fingernails onto your system. That constitutes possession as they stay in you cache folder.

    You gota be careful.

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    Shouldn't all of these be common sense/knowledge.

    Unless it is a public computer, YOU should know what you download and type, anything you do you should be held accountable for, know the consequences for your actions.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    Shouldn't all of these be common sense/knowledge.
    SNIP...
    Well yes, but "common sense" is frequently neither.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I think another problem why things like this happen and it can relate to a lot of other things is TV.

    Some people are so warped and engrossed in some of these shows and movies that they begin to get their information from them and do not take the time out to verify for themselves.



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    VAopencarry wrote:
    OK, well I knew they had the technology but do not get the point of your post. Don't confess to murder on the internet? Why do I or other law abiding citizens need to worry about what can be found on my hard drive?

    That's the old "if you're not doing anything wrong, what are you hiding" argument, and it's wrong for the same reason. You may think you're "law-abiding" but the law can change without your knowledge, and you don't know the law by heart anyway. Joking is not a crime in my mind, for instance, but that doesn't mean it's not against the law. You also may not know what's on your hard drive.
    You can even be prosecuted if you click to a site you find in google and it downloads a few child porn fingernails onto your system. That constitutes possession as they stay in you cache folder.
    That's a good point, and it's difficult to guard against. When you hit the search button on google you have no idea what's coming your way. Another example of laws written to satisfy hysterical people, I guess, since there is no criminal intent or perhaps even knowledge of what's on your HD.






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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    That's why LEO and Citizen keep all their searches restricted to "animal porn".

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    That's why LEO and Citizen keep all their searches restricted to "animal porn".
    You need to hear the story about how "Wolley" got his handle.:what:

    Something to do with Brokeback Mountain and sheep.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I think what is needed is a self-destruct device for your hard drive like in the old Mission Impossible show. It could be voice-activated so that when someone kicks in your door you just yell, "Okay. That's it!" and it burns up.

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    As an interesting side note, you should also be careful if you use a wireless router. Particularly without setting a WEP or WPA passcode to it.

    "War driving", as it is called, or using other people's unsecured wireless routers without their knowledge or permission is, while somewhat rare, still a somewhat known practice.

    Granted, most war drivers are just doing so for the sake of being able to say "Wow, I have internet here.", essentially having a little "geekgasm" for lack of a better term. However, like any tool, people can use it with malice.

    I also remember reading a story a year or so ago about someone that used an unsecure wireless network in the middle of a traffic ticket case to prove he couldn't have been guilty. So again, good uses, bad uses.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    I think what is needed is a self-destruct device for your hard drive like in the old Mission Impossible show. It could be voice-activated so that when someone kicks in your door you just yell, "Okay. That's it!" and it burns up.
    LOL - Inside joke, but funny none the less.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Even an off hand joke can be used in court against you.

    I actually saw this in a murder trial. The guy posted his plan to dispatch USDA meat inspectors and how he planed to grind them into sausage and sell them in his store.

    That internet posting was used as evidence of premeditation in his subsequent trial for murdering three meat inspectors months later in his factory.
    Did he do it? If so, it might well have been legitimate evidence of premeditation, rather than an off hand joke.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    While I don't consider this "war driving", if I have my WiFi enabled PDA on the road, and I need info on the fly I have no shame about finding an open router to retrieve information I need.

    My router at home not only uses WPA-PSK-TKIP, the passphrase was randomly generated charactars. See here: http://www.pctools.com/guides/password/

    Example: CrunUwAWAt4ecacrebr8st_T2UKUFuB?@R#x5+r$quChUSuZEF rAg24EnAHe&uWr

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    While I don't consider this "war driving", if I have my WiFi enabled PDA on the road, and I need info on the fly I have no shame about finding an open router to retrieve information I need.
    Well, Wardriving isn't typically for malice, it's mostly due to boredom.

    I've actually suggested it to an IT geek buddy of mine a few times.

    And for some 'net addicts, being able to get a fix (even on a PDA, as you said) without having to go home can be quite helpful.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    ilbob wrote:
    ...snip

    Did he do it? If so, it might well have been legitimate evidence of premeditation, rather than an off hand joke.
    Sure did, and he did it on video. Sentenced to death, but died of "natural causes" before they could give him the needle.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    The difference, I can post I want to kill meat inspectors but if I don't kill meat inspectors...........

    The cops and prosecutor can scream all day long, "He posted on the internet he was going to kill meat inspectors" but if I don't kill meat inspectors, what's the crime.


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Citizen wrote: Small world. I just found & bookmarked this website a couple days ago
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Shouldn't all of these be common sense/knowledge.
    SNIP...
    Well yes, but "common sense" is frequently neither.
    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Doesn't pre-meditation require more than just a statement, but a certain measure of actual planning?

    I can sit here all day and tell everyone that me and my rifles are ready to defend America again and I'm not worried about that one bit. I'm technically only "transferred to the Fleet Reserve" for the next 7 years, not actually retired from the Navy and as such, I'm also still bound by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). I had memorized my Oath of Enlistment many years ago, and while I'm not subject to orders, I am still being paid a retainer by the Navy and therefore can still fulfill part of my obligation to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."



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    When you hit the delete button on the PC, it only removes the first letter of the file name, which tells the PC that the file is deleted and in your wastebasket. The file is still there until the sectors on the drive are overwritten by another file. Even so, some years ago, I was advised that a certain government agency had the ability to take a hard drive or tape backup that had been erased and overwritten 14 times and still recover data from the first write. I suspect it is very expensive and labor intensive to do this and conversations with police lead me to believe that this capability isn't routinely used by law enforcement.

    There are software products that wipe deleted files from your hard drive in a manner that makes them basically impossible to recover. Even if you don't need to evade prosecution or the guys in the black helicopters, these programs are good for keeping your hard drive clean, removing unwanted cookies, and temporary files that Windows does a poor job sometimes of removing when they are no longer needed. Cleanup is one such product: http://www.stevengould.org/software/cleanup/. From a privacy standpoint, you should keep your hard drive clean.

    With regard to "wardriving" I would definately recommend securing your wireless network. While I have never tried this myself, I once overheard somebody at a trade show tell another that if he wanted to download copywrited movies or music, he would simply fire up his laptop, drive around until he found an unsecured network, download the files to that computer and then copy it to his laptop. If the copywrite police ever tracked that download and filed suit against the downloader, they would be going after the unfortunate owner of the unsecured network, not him. I presume the same thing can be done with porn, kiddie porn or other unsavory stuff.

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