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Thread: We need your support on Hunting in VA on Sundays

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    Fellas,

    Those who hunt please speak up.

    Post up your thoughts the dgif of VA is asking for imput on this topic. Open up Sundays for hunters!!!
    http://www.dgif.state.va.us/regulat...tails.asp?id=49
    Thanks
    Nicky9


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    Thanks for the link. Only being able to hunt on Saturdays on the few weekends I can make it to my parent's farm during deer season has always been a thorn in my side. Funny how me being able to shoot a deer or two on Sunday morning is totally disruptive. But there's nothing wrong with their neighbor spending all day sunday running chain saws and heavy equipment to clear out trees from his side of our shared property line.

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    Unfortunately, posting to the VDGIF comments section on their web site will do little to help the cause. It is via state code that hunting is unlawful on Sunday. In order to have this changed, it is best for all those posting to the VDGIF site to follow-up with a letter to their representatives in the House of Delegates and the Senate to either introduce or support such legislation.

    A bill was proposed in the 2007 session, but died in the Agriculture, Chesapeake, and Natural Resources Committee. It was HB 1639 sponsored by Daniel W. Marshall, III. He had no co-patrons signed onto the bill.

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    Unfortunately, posting to the VDGIF comments section on their web site will do little to help the cause. It is via state code that hunting is unlawful on Sunday. In order to have this changed, it is best for all those posting to the VDGIF site to follow-up with a letter to their representatives in the House of Delegates and the Senate to either introduce or support such legislation.

    A bill was proposed in the 2007 session, but died in the Agriculture, Chesapeake, and Natural Resources Committee. It was HB 1639 sponsored by Daniel W. Marshall, III. He had no co-patrons signed onto the bill.
    Actually there were two Sunday Huntingbills that died in that comittee this year. Mark Cole's HB2303 was for all day hunting on private land Marshalls bill was for noon until 1/2hr after sunset with public and private land included. We need to get the two of these guys together on one bill if you are interested in having Sunday Hunting a reality.

    Your comments on the DGIF website are important as well as a request from DGIF will be heard clearly by our delegates and sneators at the state level.

    Joe

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    67GT390FB wrote:
    Actually there were two Sunday Huntingbills that died in that comittee this year. Mark Cole's HB2303 was for all day hunting on private land Marshalls bill was for noon until 1/2hr after sunset with public and private land included. We need to get the two of these guys together on one bill if you are interested in having Sunday Hunting a reality.
    That is certainly interesting. I was not aware of that. It might be a good thing for the two of them to come together on a single bill and get some co-patrons. The only way to get co-patrons on new legislation is for those interested to contact their representatives.

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    Also on the sunday hunting side is the fact that virginia is one of only 11 states that ban or limit sunday hunting. the other 39 have sunday hunting.

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    Why exactly should hunting be allowed on Sunday? And before anyone asks....yes I am a hunter!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think the smart thing to do would be to push for an experimental lifting of the ban in a few counties to see what the effect would be on the management of game.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Why exactly should hunting be allowed on Sunday? And before anyone asks....yes I am a hunter!
    More importantly, why, exactly, should hunting be dissallowed on Sunday?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Roscoe - Why do I have to answer that question? The current situtation is that it is disallowed and folks on this board want to alllow it. My question was why? And don't fall into the "Logical Fallicy" trap or I'll turn you over to HankT for a quick lesson:celebrate

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well I know a few hunters who like the ban, and I'm not to sure about it myself. I can see the argument that its sporting to give animals a day of rest from being persued by man. Although I suspect the original intent was to keep people in churches on Sunday.

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    If hunting were allowed on Sundays, I would probably not utilize it as I use that day to rest, go to church, and spend time with the family anyway. I don't know the history of the legislation or it's driving factors when Sunday hunting was outlawed, so this is pure speculation, but I would suspect that some religious anti-rights zealot didn't appreciate hearing gunfire on Sundays when they were attending church.

    VDGIF has indicated over the last 4 - 5 years, at least, that the deer population in VA is excessive. So, would allowing hunting on Sunday curtail this? Yes, I believe it would. Would hunting on Sunday have an excessive effect on the population? That certainly is a potential outcome.

    With the literature I am reading in their publications, however, the number of hunters is steadily decreasing over time though. While the average mean age of hunters is increasing. This points to a real possibility that new hunters are not being introduced into the sport.

    I am neither for nor against hunting on Sundays. For the purposes of population and/or wildlife management, perhaps impact studies should be performed.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Roscoe - Why do I have to answer that question? The current situtation is that it is disallowed and folks on this board want to alllow it. My question was why? And don't fall into the "Logical Fallicy" trap or I'll turn you over to HankT for a quick lesson:celebrate
    The fact that it's illegal now is irrelavent to the arument. We live in an allegedly free society. NOTHING should be illegal unless there is an overriding public interest served by making something illegal.

    As far as turning me over to HankT, I couldn't care less, I already ignore pretty much everything he writes anyway.:celebrate:celebrate
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    Roscoe - Why do I have to answer that question? The current situtation is that it is disallowed and folks on this board want to alllow it. My question was why? And don't fall into the "Logical Fallicy" trap or I'll turn you over to HankT for a quick lesson:celebrate
    The fact that it's illegal now is irrelavent to the arument. We live in an allegedly free society. NOTHING should be illegal unless there is an overriding public interest served by making something illegal.

    As far as turning me over to HankT, I couldn't care less, I already ignore pretty much everything he writes anyway.:celebrate:celebrate
    Well as hunting is a highly regulated activity already, what is the compelling argument to change the existing regulations? There is a general and very compelling reason that hunting is a regulated activity, it is so we will continue to have wildlife to hunt and to avoid a tragedy of the commons situation.



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    I know some horse enthusiasts are against Sunday hunting. One I knew said the only day they can only safely ride trails is Sunday. They and their horses are at risk of being shot the other days (and if Sunday hunting is allowed).

    I'm neither a hunter nor a horse enthusiast.
    ---

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    longwatch wrote:
    Well as hunting is a highly regulated activity already, what is the compelling argument to change the existing regulations? There is a general and very compelling reason that hunting is a regulated activity, it is so we will continue to have wildlife to hunt and to avoid a tragedy of the commons situation.
    The point is there doesn't NEED to be a compelling reason to repeal the ban on Sunday hunting (or any other prohibited activity) , IF there's no compelling reason to keep ithe ban, it should be repealed.

    I'm not saying there isn't a compelling reason to keep the ban, but no one (except possibly rlh2005) has presented one.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Well as hunting is a highly regulated activity already, what is the compelling argument to change the existing regulations? There is a general and very compelling reason that hunting is a regulated activity, it is so we will continue to have wildlife to hunt and to avoid a tragedy of the commons situation.
    The point is there doesn't NEED to be a compelling reason to repeal the ban on Sunday hunting (or any other prohibited activity) , IF there's no compelling reason to keep ithe ban, it should be repealed.

    I'm not saying there isn't a compelling reason to keep the ban, but no one (except possibly rlh2005) has presented one.
    The opposite can be said as well.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Why exactly should hunting be allowed on Sunday? And before anyone asks....yes I am a hunter!
    For over 20 yrs I worked a 6 day work week Mon - Sat, That don't leave much time for a working man to hunt.

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    I think a better question is why hunting would NOT be allowed on any day of the week.

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    Hunting should be controlled only for purposes of managing the game population. It should be regulated in such a way that allows maximum participation by the people, especially in this day and age in which fewer people are brought up in the sport.

    So the only reason I can see for not allowing Sunday hunting is because it may have an adverse effect on the game population. If that's not the case, than what the heck, let's legalize it. Anything that gets more people interested in an important American pastime.

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    rlh2005 wrote:
    One I knew said the only day they can only safely ride trails is Sunday. They and their horses are at risk of being shot the other days (and if Sunday hunting is allowed).

    I'm neither a hunter nor a horse enthusiast.
    Safety is a good tool for tyrants. No one can be against safety.

    The risk of being hit by an unaimed random shot is proportional to the target size and range only. Blaze-orange damns hunters as incompetent shooters.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    longwatch wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    Roscoe - Why do I have to answer that question? The current situtation is that it is disallowed and folks on this board want to alllow it. My question was why? And don't fall into the "Logical Fallicy" trap or I'll turn you over to HankT for a quick lesson:celebrate
    The fact that it's illegal now is irrelavent to the arument. We live in an allegedly free society. NOTHING should be illegal unless there is an overriding public interest served by making something illegal.

    As far as turning me over to HankT, I couldn't care less, I already ignore pretty much everything he writes anyway.:celebrate:celebrate
    Well as hunting is a highly regulated activity already, what is the compelling argument to change the existing regulations? There is a general and very compelling reason that hunting is a regulated activity, it is so we will continue to have wildlife to hunt and to avoid a tragedy of the commons situation.

    This is some of the best reasoned and worded supportfor lifting the bani have read and it pretty much sums up my feelings. It is from the roanoke times:

    Guest entry on Sunday Hunting

    A couple of days ago I got an e-mail from a reader of this blog who wondered why his comment on my entry "More Thoughts on Sunday Hunting" hadn't been posted. I had no good answer. For some reason his original post had disappeared into oblivion. Fortunately, he still had the original and was able to resend it.

    "B Patrick" clearly put a lot of time into this post, which may be the best-written comment I've ever seen in support of Sunday hunting. (If he had written that eloquently in support of the ban I would have given him the same compliment.)

    Rather than post it as a comment now on a topic that's already week old, where it won't get the reads it deserves, I'm going to run this as an entry.

    Again, the words below aren't mine. They're from "B Patrick."


    "The majority of hunters will agree that the biggest obstacle to hunting, and the biggest obstacle to recruiting new hunters, is lack of access and opportunity to hunt. By restricting Sunday hunting, states are not only limiting opportunities for today’s hunters but are making it harder to recruit new hunters to carry on our proud heritage. Anti-hunting groups understand this, that’s why they oppose lifting Sunday hunting bans--they don’t want a new generation of hunters to enter the field. This opposition to Sunday hunting is in fact opposition to the future of hunting itself.

    Restrictions on Sunday hunting treat hunters as second-class citizens. Other outdoor activities are allowed on Sunday, including fishing, hiking and golf. By restricting hunting and not other activities, state governments are sending a not so subtle message to hunters and non-hunters alike that there is something wrong with hunting, that it isn’t as legitimate an activity. This message ignores the fact that hunters contribute billions of dollars to the benefit of wildlife, both through license fees and excise taxes paid on firearms and ammunition.

    There are compelling reasons why Sunday hunting should be allowed:


    Sunday hunting has no detrimental effect on wildlife populations. The 43 states that allow some form of Sunday hunting have healthy wildlife populations in those areas that can sustain them. In fact the states with the most abundant game populations allow Sunday hunting. Those states that have recently removed prohibitions on Sunday hunting have not seen a negative impact on game populations. Allowing Sunday hunting will give state wildlife agencies more flexibility in managing populations. The extra day a week for hunting will give the agencies the ability to increase hunting in areas of overpopulation by encouraging hunters to go afield."

    "The most common reason that hunters stop hunting is lack of hunting opportunity. Hunting opportunities are largely decided by two factors: accessible land and available time. Since most hunters work Monday through Friday, a ban on Sunday hunting cuts their available hunting time in half.


    Sunday hunting is an excellent way to recruit new hunters. Many young people have school or athletic obligations on Saturday. Allowing Sunday hunting means that parents can spend time hunting with their son or daughter, passing on a heritage that is so important to America. With the myriad of activities that compete for the attention of young people today, a restriction on Sunday hunting means many of them never take up the sport.


    Sunday hunting will bring an economic benefit to many rural areas. Every day that hunters are in the field, they spend money on gas, food, lodging and the dozens of other incidentals that go along with a day’s hunt. The ripple effect of this spending can have a major impact on a rural town or county.


    Out-of-state license revenue can grow as a result of Sunday hunting. Few hunters will take extended hunting trips to a state that won’t let them hunt one day of the week. These out-of-state hunters pay higher license fees that benefit the game department and also spend even more money on incidentals than in-state hunters.

    Current Sunday hunting bans:

    Currently seven states entirely prohibit hunting on Sunday for wild game; they are Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Jersey and Connecticut. All of these states have considered legislation to lift the bans in recent years. Repealing the Sunday hunting bans has been actively supported by the wildlife agencies in Maine and New Jersey.

    Four states allow limited Sunday hunting: Maryland allows hunting on two Sundays during deer season; South Carolina allows Sunday hunting on private land only; North Carolina allows Sunday hunting on some federal installations; in 2001 West Virginia enacted legislation that allows Sunday hunting on private land, but each county can hold a referendum to ban Sunday hunting; currently 14 counties allow it.

    Recently several states have recognized the folly of Sunday hunting bans:

    New York: In 1996 New York opened Sunday hunting on three Sundays during deer season. Within five years the law was changed to allow all Sunday hunting, except on specifically designated lands.

    Ohio: In 1998 Ohio passed a bill allowing a test of Sunday hunting on public lands for a period of three years. In 2002 the legislature made Sunday hunting permanent without opposition from groups that had concerns when the test began. The state wildlife agency supported the change.

    Michigan: Sunday hunting was banned on private land in certain counties, but in 2003, all Sunday hunting closures were repealed. The bill was supported by the state wildlife agency.

    None of these states have experienced the horror stories forecast by opponents of hunting. The states continue to have healthy wildlife populations. Hunters continue to behave in a responsible and safe manner. Church attendance remains unchanged. Landowner-hunter conflicts have not increased. In sum, Sunday hunting has had nothing but a beneficial impact on these states and the future of hunting in them.


    There have been various arguments offered in support of maintaining the Ban on No Sunday Hunting in Virginia. I wish to supply counter arguments to repeal the Ban.

    Argument: If Sunday hunting were allowed, fathers/mothers would spend less time with their families. I.E. Deer season widows.

    1) The state has no place in dictating “family time”. This is a personal issue.
    2) This Ban does not forbid: Golf, Fishing, NASCAR, NBA, NFL, NHL, or any other “past-time” that could take place on Sunday, thus taking a family member away from “family time”.

    Argument: I want to go to church on Sunday. Sunday is a day of rest.

    1) Repeal of this Ban would not keep anyone from attending church.
    2) The state has no place enforcing/supporting the doctrine of any religion

    Argument: Church services would be disturbed or attendance would go down.

    1) People attend church on Wednesdays (a legal hunting day) and there has been no conflict.
    2) Other states that allow Sunday hunting have not encountered this problem.
    3) Religions other than Christianity, which have services on Fridays and Saturdays (legal hunting days), have not encountered this problem.
    4) There could be “archery only” zones near places of worship or restricted zones surrounding them.
    5) The state has no place ensuring church attendance.

    Argument: Farmers and landowners would be forced to allow Sunday hunting on private property.

    1) Farmers or landowners can dictate what activities can or cannot be conducted on their property. They simply can write “No Sunday Hunting” into their permission contracts if they so wish. It is law that hunters must carry written permission to hunt private land already.


    Argument: It has always been this way.

    1) Tradition is not a valid reason for denying a liberty or privilege.
    2) It is one, if not the last, of the Blue Laws on the books.

    Argument: Deer need a day to rest from the pressure of hunting.

    1) There is no valid evidence from other states, that allow Sunday hunting, that the deer are “over-pressured”.
    2) Deer are unaware of the days of the week. So they do not ‘know’ that this day is ‘safer’ than any other.
    3) Many hunters go out on Sunday to scout, check their stands, cameras and/or feeders. The deer are not aware that the hunters are unarmed.
    4) Although there is no study to site for the effects of Sunday hunting in Virginia, conclusions can be drawn from the data in other states.
    5) There is light pressure from hunting during the week because many, if not most, hunters work during the week.

    Argument: There will be an over-harvest of deer.

    1) Although there is no study to site for the effects of Sunday hunting in Virginia, conclusions can be drawn from the data in other states. There has not been a negative effect on the deer herd in these states.
    2) Few Virginia hunters fill all of their tags. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries set the limit of 6 deer per season. An increase in harvest should not drastically effect the herd population based on the present limit.

    Argument: We don’t have the money to pay for extra Wardens.

    1) Wardens are working on Sundays already. As a whole, they do not get Sundays off any time of the year.
    2) We have, in place now, a phone and Internet check-in service. There would not be an increased workload since Sunday check-in is already available.


    Argument: I want to walk in the woods on Sunday.

    1) If you own your property, do not allow Sunday hunting.
    2) There is no hunting in State Parks.


    Argument: What good will it do?

    1) Opening Sunday for hunting would allow ‘working’ hunters more opportunities to take game. Especially if Saturday is effected by inclement weather or family obligations take precedent.
    2) Allowing Sunday hunting would increase the chances of hunters to supply more meat for their families, thus saving them money by extending their food budgets.
    3) There would be more use of expendable goods: gasoline, scents, restaurants, and ammunition.
    4) There would be increased income to Hunting Preserves and Guides.
    5) There would be an increase in out-of-state hunters. This would provide increased income to local economies (Preserves, guides, hotels, gasoline, and restaurants) as well as to the VDGIF by way of an increased number of out-of-state licenses.
    6) Increased income for game processors.
    7) Opening Sunday to hunting will allow children who have Saturday school or extracurricular activities (football, soccer, and clubs) to hunt. They would not have to choose between the two.
    Opening Sunday to hunting would allow hunters more time to enjoy participating in a way of life that many hold dear.

    I would like to point out that this issue is not a “deer hunting” only issue. Although deer hunting is often the example argued. There are other game animals in the state."

  23. #23
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    Now thats a real answer.......i like it!!

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    Its a more convincing argument than I've seen so far.

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