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Thread: I want to get arrested while OCing

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Okay, the title is not quite true, but it's close...

    Here in Ohio, as I'm sure in Virginia and other OC states, OCers are worried about, or have been threatened with (as I personally have been) charges ofDisorderly Conduct, Disturbing the Peace, Inciting, etc., etc.

    The purpose of this thread is to fully flesh out the ramifications of being cited, fighting the citation, LOSING, and taking the matter higher - IOW, establishing a precedent.

    I don't know if this is possible - but that is another reason for this thread.

    I guess the best way to start is to ask a few questions:

    - is it possible to establish a precedent that one walking down the street OCing, (or conducting one's business) while having no contact with one's gun, acting in a threatening manner, etc. is protected from charges as listed above?

    - assuming one is NOT protected from such charges, what would be the route and the expected cost to defend oneself from such scurrilous charges?

    - what would be the cost of carrying the matter if charges were dropped before a hearing took place?

    - is the threat, and the real potentialof prosecution for what is (hopefully) legal conduct, in fact a de facto prohibition?

    - could a court hold that while OCing is legal, the "ripple effects" it creates expose one to legal jeopardy?


    Thanks to all for on-topic considered opinions andfactual posts.

  2. #2
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    You should take a look at this case right here : http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?opt...ew&id=3672


    On May 30th, 2006 the Dan Sayers Legal Defense Fund, upon learning the facts of the case. This page will serve as a repository of stories we've written and supporting evidence that we've acquired, such as video, legal briefs, etc.

    Dashcam Video:

    OFCC used to have our own copy of the dashcam video that was provided through Mr. Sayers' attorney with permission. That link has been disabled.

    You may see the dashcam video posted on YouTube HERE.

    Legal Briefs:

    Motion To Reconsider (PDF)
    Oregon Ordinances (PDF)
    Motion To Dismiss (on Sixth District Ruling) Denied (PDF)
    Supplemental Authority and Memo in Support of Dismissing the State’s indictments (PDF)
    Oregon Response To Motion To Dismiss (PDF)
    Motion to Dismiss (PDF)
    Motion To Suppress Evidence & Statements (PDF)

    OhioCCW.ORG Stories:

    Monday, 05 June 2006
    Open Carry Leads To Felony Traffic Stop; Suspended License

    Friday, 09 June 2006
    UPDATE: OFCC Member's License Returned

    Friday, 09 June 2006
    OFCC Announces The Dan Sayers Legal Defense Fund

    Monday, 24 July 2006
    Oregon Ohio: Sayers Attorney Motion To Dismiss

    Wednesday, 26 July 2006
    Sayers Case: Motion to Suppress Evidence and Statements Filed

    Tuesday, 15 August 2006
    Oregon Files Response To Motion To Dismiss

    Tuesday, 12 September 2006
    Sayers Case: Using the Sixth District Ruling For Dismissal

    Tuesday, 19 September 2006
    Sayers: Motion To Dimiss Denied

    Monday, 09 October 2006
    Sayers Legal Defense Fund Exceeds Initial Goal

    Wednesday, 06 June 2007
    City of Oregon v Daniel Sayers Dismissed!

    Very interesting read.

  3. #3
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    I would like to have the some test case(s) resolve the matter once and for all, but I am a coward by nature. Not really, but then neither do I crave martyrdom to the extent of languishing in county until then. What I might gain in reputation, I would certainly lose with loss of employment, alienation of affection, eviction, etc. - not a small price, even without a conviction. I would hope that if the expected legal hassle obtained, that the authorities would realize the error of their way before it got to a jury, butthen without a judgment entry, the precedent won't exist... Maybe the disposition of the Sayers case in Ohio has clued in the authorities here.

    I'm helping the cause in my own small way, and have no new scars to show for it, so I propose to carry on as if these precedents existed. In other words, one needn't be convicted to have convictions. Let's cross (or maybe jump off?) that legal bridge when we come to it.

    ;-/

    -ljp

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Well, for a bunch of OC loyalists (?) there sure has been a lack of response here...

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    As someone who has been somewhat hasseled by cops for OC, I don't recommend the experience to anyone. However, getting arrested just for OC, would be an avenue towards a payday, at least in Va.

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    What *I* would do if I were in your position...

    #1 - Look around and find a good lawyer that had good knowledge of firearms laws.
    #2 - Make an appt with this lawyer.
    #3 - Go over what you are concerned with and ask his opinion as to whether the law is on your side or not.
    #4 - If the lawyer thinks that the law is on your side. Ask them how much they would charge you to defend you if you are brought up on any of those charges.
    #5 - If you have the money, you now have a lawyer that you can depend on, so go for it.



  7. #7
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    I've been harassed while CC once cause a friend put his gun in his holster and then concealed it. I should have filed charges as they grossly violated our rights and charged us with "disorderly conduct." While I was able to get the charges dropped, the hassle, embarassment, trouble, and rediculousness of the circumstances all were a royal PITA.
    I have since been OCing a lot, particularly in the last couple months like 80% of the time, and now am willing to fight back in court if need be. I hope I dont get hassled, then again, maybe it'd teach all these California import cops a lesson about Idaho.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

  8. #8
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    Heh, BB62, that might be a bit harder now, that 347 is in effect :celebrate

    I can understand the why, however

  9. #9
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    Oh, dangit! Didn't mean to double post...

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    OracleQuery wrote:
    Heh, BB62, that might be a bit harder now, that 347 is in effect...
    Well, there arestill possible disorderly conduct and inducing panic charges to be concerned with! :-(

  11. #11
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    here in TX, OC is obviously not an option yet, however, since I was born and raised in Illinois, just south of the WI border, I will be visiting family this summer/fall and I'll be taking a walk in WI WHILE Open Carrying.

  12. #12
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    I open Carry in Las Vegas. How does that grab ya?

    I also have NEVER been heckled by LEO's about Open Carry.

    I called metro police today regarding OC and they told me it wasn't illegal.

    Best part: I dress "metal" which means I wear all black, a studded bracelet, a wallet chain, black boots with skulls on them, and a cowboy style hat... and a Sig Sauer SP2340 on my hip.

    never had an "incident," except for once where I was asked not to OC in a privatly owned grocery store. Even at that they allowed me to continue to shop.

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