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Thread: New member, oc'd for first time

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    Hi, im mordis, im from Fort Wayne IN, and I am 26years old. I have my LTCH and have had it since i turned 21. Now im going to preface this, i normaly carry concealed, as i didnt know Indiana had no problem legaly with open carry, but im a big guy(semi truck spare tire, lol i know working it off is a slow, painfull process) and concealing is sometimes uncomfortable for me. my holsters include that leather bianchi one with the forward cant and a thumbbrake and a fobus roto paddle.

    Since i first discoverd this site a week ago, i decided to try it one time. My wife and i went to a Sanoco station on coldwater road near dupont road and i filled her up. I was oc the whole time. I payed with the evil plastic then i walked inside to buy a drink. The clerks didnt say a thing or even bat a eyelash, but a citizen who was sitting in his car outside the station was watching me, and when i left, he flagged me to his car to inform me that i needed to conceal it, cuase that is what the permit is for. He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc, and he says, "Oh, i thought you needed a texas rig to oc here" i was like no, i dont think so. I have no idea what a texas rig is. he asked me what kind it was i said G17 in 9mm, he goes " nice gun i had one" and that was the end of it.

    I have not had the courage to oc again, not till i send a letter to the indiana attorney general asking about its legalities. not that i dont trust this site, its a matter of CYA.COVER YOUR ARSE. Im just scared, i dont wana end up in jail becuase some cop dosent know the law. or some jumpy civy gets sheepish. Any other oc'ers in FT.Wayne, id love to meet and talk lol.

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    It's not an unreasonable concern. A lot of people, cops and prosecutors included, either don't know the law or selectively enforce it. Still, all it takes is to realize that if something is not illegal - however "technical" people might complain the hairsplitting gets - it is legal. You have a right to go about armed. Other people do not have a right to preserve their sensitivities inviolate, even if your exercise of your rights makes them upset. You may even suffer ostracism or persecution (even prosecution) over this. Still, I vote for my life, liberty, and happiness over the complacent, illusorycomfort of others. What they ought to consider is that it might be them that you end up defending, if they don't go about armed. How much more uncomfortable yet will they be when they get accosted by an armedcarjacker, say, as opposed to an armed gasoline purchaser...

    -ljp

    p.s. Welcome to the forum and let us know how it goes with the AG's office.Enlighten him/her if they try to discourage you.


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    well, my only other concern with open carry is that if a gremlin decides to accost me, he will see the gun and immediatly escalate the level of violence, tho im sure it will happen any ways. I just hope the AG is a reasonable person, and not a libby.

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    Bear in mind that a gun is no guarantee of safety either. I was carjacked once - before I carried - and it wouldn't have mattered if I had been, since the creep got the drop on me. My experience is that good and bad people alike will tend to either avoid you or just give you curious looks. I've yet to hear of any clear-cut instance of someone being targeted because they were armed. If that were true, then why don't cops routinely get shot with their own guns?

    As for "libbies," I am politically left of center, but I do like my guns, so don't assume these are mutually exclusive (although it is lonely at the meetings).

    Good luck. BTW, what is a "Texas rig"? I'm not familiar with that either.

    -ljp

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    Legba i ment no disrespect with my libbie comment. It is my unfortunate experiance that with every democrap liberal i have met they all want to label me a paranoid freak, and wants to ban all guns... I see your point on the carry thing, its not a garuntee , but i do take precuations, i always lock my cardoors, and am looking for people who may be walking up on me.

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    LTCH - License To Carry a Handgun State of Indiana. I do not see a restriction or mentionas to how it must be carried.

    I am sure the AG willrefer you to the applicable code, without benefit of legal advice. I hope your letter asks if there is any applicable statute prohibiting open carry of a handgun by a LTCH holder. Opposed to asking if it is legal!

    Welcome to OCDO! From across the border in the peoples Republic if Illinois. I await the invasion from Indiana to help free my people!












    Edit - spelling

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    thank you for suggesting the question regarding the statuets, i didnt even think of that, im going to be writing the letter this weekend, when i get some more free time, to my self. I am curious as to what he would say. Tho im sure he will also give some lecture about the when and weres and appropriateness of oc.

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    No disrespect taken with the "libby" remark. I don't care for the one-dimentional liberal/conservative spectrum either. The world is more complicated than that, but I know what you mean. People who do fit these categories - on either end - are tedious.

    I have printed copies of the relevant sections of the Ohio weapons laws that I keep in my car. Do not try to shove such documents in a cop's face, though, however wrong they may be- they will get pissy. Having a permit helps as well (in fact, I understand it's required in order to carry at all in Indiana). Cops tend to be more suspicious of people like me who don't have one and insist on carrying anyway (legal in Ohio). They assume that there's a reason you can't get one. I just tell them that I don't care to spend $150 to do something I can already do (openly, at least) for free - not that I owe anyone an explanantion.

    It's good that you take basic precautions. That's 90% of security. There is no substitute for being aware of your environment at all times and simply locking doors and such. I "size up" places and situations continuously. My gf can think me insane, but she's not been victimized with me around either.

    -ljp

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    Mordis wrote:
    Hi, im mordis, im from Fort Wayne IN, and I am 26years old. I have my LTCH and have had it since i turned 21. Now im going to preface this, i normaly carry concealed, as i didnt know Indiana had no problem legaly with open carry, but im a big guy(semi truck spare tire, lol i know working it off is a slow, painfull process) and concealing is sometimes uncomfortable for me. my holsters include that leather bianchi one with the forward cant and a thumbbrake and a fobus roto paddle.

    Since i first discoverd this site a week ago, i decided to try it one time. My wife and i went to a Sanoco station on coldwater road near dupont road and i filled her up. I was oc the whole time. I payed with the evil plastic then i walked inside to buy a drink. The clerks didnt say a thing or even bat a eyelash, but a citizen who was sitting in his car outside the station was watching me, and when i left, he flagged me to his car to inform me that i needed to conceal it, cuase that is what the permit is for. He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc, and he says, "Oh, i thought you needed a texas rig to oc here" i was like no, i dont think so. I have no idea what a texas rig is. he asked me what kind it was i said G17 in 9mm, he goes " nice gun i had one" and that was the end of it.

    I have not had the courage to oc again, not till i send a letter to the indiana attorney general asking about its legalities. not that i dont trust this site, its a matter of CYA.COVER YOUR ARSE. Im just scared, i dont wana end up in jail becuase some cop dosent know the law. or some jumpy civy gets sheepish. Any other oc'ers in FT.Wayne, id love to meet and talk lol.
    www.packing.org

    All this info is for the State of Indiana


    Summary
    Indiana is not a traditional open carry state. However, with an Indiana permit, open carry is legal.

    Date updated: Aug 26, 2005 @ 10:32 pm

    IC 35-47-2-1 Carrying A Handgun Without A License Or By Person Convicted Of Domestic Battery


    Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
    Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 926A

    Though we have not found a state law prohibiting "open carry" one must still have a Handgun permit to carry at all. Some local laws my affect "open carry"

    IC 35-47-2-1
    Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
    35-47-2-1 Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.




    Open CarryWITH a Permit and You will be fine.





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    Well i sent an email via the function on the AG site. I hope he reads it and responds, if not, ill just write him a plain letter and mail it to him. OH. There is a thread in glocktalk about open carry, i hope some of the vets here visit it.

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    I'm not a Glock person, so let us know if anyone there is of help.

    -ljp

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    Well, I talked to a retired Indiana State senator, from my district. (whom still works as a political consultant). He said that while it is not prohibited under law, you could very well be arrested and charged, i think he worded it as "creating a public nuasance", also you could also get introuble with the law becuase, according to him open carry is intimidating to the normal public. He stated that most would consider open carry to be abberent behavior and not something a person of sound mind and judgement would do.

    While I dont know what the offical stance of the ISP, i sent them a email, still havnt gotten a reply, hopefully theyll reply soon. if not ill send them a snail mail. Or just drive down to the post off of 69 and ask.

    Since talking to the Senator ill probably not OC again, not until IN passes a law making it legal to do so. I just dont want to risk getting thrown in jail for brandishing and/or creating apublic nuasuance, either of those happen and ill prolly never get my gun and permits back ever.

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    Mordis wrote:
    ...He said that while it is not prohibited under law, you could very well be arrested and charged, i think he worded it as "creating a public nuasance", also you could also get introuble with the law becuase, according to him open carry is intimidating to the normal public.
    This was always the conventional wisdom here in PA too, since I moved here in the early '90s.
    In PA we now have case law (Supreme Ct) as well as clear statutes of the PA UFA.
    No way anyone can be charged for "disturbing the peace", "terroristic threatening, etc by the sole act of open carrying a firearm within the law in PA.

    BUT, the old "wisdom" prevails and the VAST majority of people, LEO included, believe that OC is ILLEGAL. This is why we have so much fun doing it at least until the "wisdom" is reversed.



    not until IN passes a law making it legal to do so.
    Won't happen... you don't pass laws to make "things" legal. You pass laws to outlaw "things"

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    Well, I havnt had the courage to oc again. Truthfully the thought of it terrifies me. I like the concept of oc but just afraid of what i know is inevitably going to happen. Some sheep will call the cops, ill end up on the pavement and injail(or on the cold slab) and my politicaly involved family will begin the if you have a gun hide it lecture i get all the damn time they catch a glimps of it. Being that im related to a senator and my dad is trying to run foroffice as well, and other family in other positions, they dont want anything on the family name that can be used against them politicaly. Even tho they will never admit to that.....



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    Mordis wrote:
    Well, I havnt had the courage to oc again. Truthfully the thought of it terrifies me. I like the concept of oc but just afraid of what i know is inevitably going to happen...
    I think you have made the right decision. Exercising of RIGHTS is something that people just shouldn't do - bad things may come of it.

    It is infinitely better to let those braver (or stupider?) than you "push the limits".

    May the master's whip lie softly on your back.





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    BB62 wrote:

    I think you have made the right decision. Exercising of RIGHTS is something that people just shouldn't do - bad things may come of it.

    It is infinitely better to let those braver (or stupider?) than you "push the limits".

    May the master's whip lie softly on your back.

    BB62 I think your outta line here. he is exercising his right to self defense. he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH. If he is not comfortable open carrying then fine, its his right. as for "push the limits" that is a personal choice, some are more politically active than others. He is a GUN CARRYING BROTHER, and honest about his fears and motives.

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    ijusam wrote:
    BB62 wrote:

    I think you have made the right decision. Exercising of RIGHTS is something that people just shouldn't do - bad things may come of it.

    It is infinitely better to let those braver (or stupider?) than you "push the limits".

    May the master's whip lie softly on your back.

    BB62 I think your outta line here. he is exercising his right to self defense. he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH. If he is not comfortable open carrying then fine, its his right. as for "push the limits" that is a personal choice, some are more politically active than others. He is a GUN CARRYING BROTHER, and honest about his fears and motives.
    "he is exercising his right to self defense"

    No, obtaining an LTCH is NOT exercising a right - it is a request fora privilege.



    "he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH"

    It is not necessary for him (or anyone else) to carry a gun in order to take responsibility for his personal safety. BTW - LTCH can beissued to 18 year olds in IN.



    In a previous post he wrote: "He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc"

    I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem strange to you that someone who 1) has acquired a LTCH, and 2) knows the law well enough to say "there's no law against it" hasn't fully considered the ramifications of OC? But no, he gets challenged once and all of a sudden the totality of the exposure hits home? How many people do you know that casuallydecide one day "Heck, I'm just gonna OC!". To me it justdoesn't add up.

    But, I agree, and I was wrong about one thing - I misread his desire to OC in order to exercisea right, instead it just seems that merely discovering this site a week ago was enough of an "inspiration".

    I therefore apologize for and take back my comment "May the master's whip lie softly on your back."

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    BB62,...kudos to "making nice".

    Shows Great Character and is EXACTLY how Gun-toters should behave.

    "We agree to disagree" is a Great saying that has been used SEVERAL times on this Forum


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    Summary
    Indiana is not a traditional open carry state. However, with an Indiana permit, open carry is legal.

    Date updated: Aug 26, 2005 @ 10:32 pm

    IC 35-47-2-1 Carrying A Handgun Without A License Or By Person Convicted Of Domestic Battery


    Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
    "he is exercising his right to self defense"
    No, obtaining an LTCH is NOT exercising a right - it is a request for a privilege.


    BB62… You are correct. A LTCH is not exercising your right to self defense, exercising your right of self defense is the act of defending yourself. In the state in question (IN) to carry a handgun other then on your own property or fixed place of business requires a LTCH. CC or OC



    "he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH"

    It is not necessary for him (or anyone else) to carry a gun in order to take responsibility for his personal safety

    Again you are correct. It is not necessary to carry a gun to protect yourself. If you are a decent fighter you could do OK defending yourself from 1 or 2 unarmed opponents. If you are "Billy Badass" you might do well against a knife or club. If you run and dodge well you might foil a gunman’s aim. You could hire personal protection, or rely on your police.

    As for MYSELF: I carry a handgun because there are people in this world that are stronger, better trained, desperate, and armed. Some of these will steal, rape, and kill without hesitation or remorse. Some are just the government wanting to help relieve us of our freedoms because they want power and control. I want to protect my family and self the best I can.

    BTW - LTCH can be issued to 18 year olds in IN.

    Although I stand corrected here, I did qualify my statement with "probably"


    In a previous post he wrote: "He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc"

    I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem strange to you that someone who 1) has acquired a LTCH, and 2) knows the law well enough to say "there's no law against it" hasn't fully considered the ramifications of OC? But no, he gets challenged once and all of a sudden the totality of the exposure hits home? How many people do you know that casually decide one day "Heck, I'm just gonna OC!". To me it just doesn't add up.

    But, I agree, and I was wrong about one thing - I misread his desire to OC in order to exercise a right, instead it just seems that merely discovering this site a week ago was enough of an "inspiration".

    I therefore apologize for and take back my comment "May the master's whip lie softly on your back."

    My hats off to you BB62. You are like most people on this forum and that makes it a good place. I did get some good info from PDO, but the best was the link for this site

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    BB62 wrote:
    ijusam wrote:
    BB62 wrote:

    I think you have made the right decision. Exercising of RIGHTS is something that people just shouldn't do - bad things may come of it.

    It is infinitely better to let those braver (or stupider?) than you "push the limits".

    May the master's whip lie softly on your back.

    BB62 I think your outta line here. he is exercising his right to self defense. he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH. If he is not comfortable open carrying then fine, its his right. as for "push the limits" that is a personal choice, some are more politically active than others. He is a GUN CARRYING BROTHER, and honest about his fears and motives.
    "he is exercising his right to self defense"

    No, obtaining an LTCH is NOT exercising a right - it is a request fora privilege.



    "he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH"

    It is not necessary for him (or anyone else) to carry a gun in order to take responsibility for his personal safety. BTW - LTCH can beissued to 18 year olds in IN.



    In a previous post he wrote: "He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc"

    I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem strange to you that someone who 1) has acquired a LTCH, and 2) knows the law well enough to say "there's no law against it" hasn't fully considered the ramifications of OC? But no, he gets challenged once and all of a sudden the totality of the exposure hits home? How many people do you know that casuallydecide one day "Heck, I'm just gonna OC!". To me it justdoesn't add up.

    But, I agree, and I was wrong about one thing - I misread his desire to OC in order to exercisea right, instead it just seems that merely discovering this site a week ago was enough of an "inspiration".

    I therefore apologize for and take back my comment "May the master's whip lie softly on your back."

    Actually, I did stumble accross this site by accident and decided one day on a whime to oc to see how it was. Despite the fact that the one encounter i had was not a bad one, It still "hit home" the potential consquences. I have oc before, but only as a Uniformed security guard. No one ever questions the security guard standing at his post, or calls the cops on the s/o oc at his post(unless he is acting like a moron).

    I think i also stated that i do belive in oc, but i thought i pointed out I was nervous about it due to the fact that sure, its not illegal to oc, but the could still hit you with disturbing the peace, and creating a public nuasance if they felt the urge to do so.

    The last thing i need is for my very young son to see his father get slammed to the pavement and taser'd or shot to death by some cop who didnt agree or didnt understand the legalities of open carry. I even visted the fT wayne police dept forums and there was a post about oc, and a rep from the fwp said that the police will come up and talk to run your name and id and stuff. ITs guaruanteed to happen every time a cop sees you in ft.Wayne, its standard policy according to him. They even have a set S.O.P in regards to how they walk talk and act and approach the person.

    I practice alot more them most of the police offficers i know, including my uncle who is a 26 year vet, he and most of his colleges(spelling?) only practice enough to qualify. I practice at minimum of 2hours plus twice month, most of the time at least once a week. In that time, i practice my basics, my concealment draw, drawing and firing on the move, instinctive shooting, and front site only shooting. At home i am constantly dryfiring and drawing my unloaded pistol every convienient oppurtunity I get. I do not have the cash to attend gunsite or TDI or the like, so i must make due. I feel i am doing my best to reasonably protect my self. There is no need for the rudeness you are feeding me. '

    I would love to get to gether with a someone or group of Hoosiers from this board for a time out on the town oc style, that would go along way to helping my confidence.

    I just have a hard time getting the words of the senator out of my head.

    "most would consider open carry to be abberent behavior and not something a person of sound mind and judgement would do."

    While i whish i could strap both my full size guns on and oc to my hearts content, that senator represents the will of the majority, and that veiw he expresses is most likely the veiws of those he represents. So you must understand were i am coming form.




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    BB62 wrote:
    ijusam wrote:
    BB62 wrote:

    I think you have made the right decision. Exercising of RIGHTS is something that people just shouldn't do - bad things may come of it.

    It is infinitely better to let those braver (or stupider?) than you "push the limits".

    May the master's whip lie softly on your back.

    BB62 I think your outta line here. he is exercising his right to self defense. he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH. If he is not comfortable open carrying then fine, its his right. as for "push the limits" that is a personal choice, some are more politically active than others. He is a GUN CARRYING BROTHER, and honest about his fears and motives.
    "he is exercising his right to self defense"

    No, obtaining an LTCH is NOT exercising a right - it is a request fora privilege.



    "he has taken responsibility for his own personal safety for the past 5 years, which is probably as long as he has been legal to have a LTCH"

    It is not necessary for him (or anyone else) to carry a gun in order to take responsibility for his personal safety. BTW - LTCH can beissued to 18 year olds in IN.



    In a previous post he wrote: "He was nice and polite and i politely told him that In has no law making it illegal to oc"

    I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem strange to you that someone who 1) has acquired a LTCH, and 2) knows the law well enough to say "there's no law against it" hasn't fully considered the ramifications of OC? But no, he gets challenged once and all of a sudden the totality of the exposure hits home? How many people do you know that casuallydecide one day "Heck, I'm just gonna OC!". To me it justdoesn't add up.

    But, I agree, and I was wrong about one thing - I misread his desire to OC in order to exercisea right, instead it just seems that merely discovering this site a week ago was enough of an "inspiration".

    I therefore apologize for and take back my comment "May the master's whip lie softly on your back."
    "There is no need for the rudeness you are feeding me. "

    This is true, although BB62has already "made nice". VERY COMMENDABLE.



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    Ralph, the retired senator im talking about is Ret. Senator Richard Worman. I have known him since ihave been a child.

    I personaly dont have a problem with showing my id and permit to a officer who calmly and politely asks me for it. They have no right to lecture on there opinion for or against open carry. As long as they treat me with respect and dont get arrogant(as so many i have met are unfortunately. Tho not all are, so im not broad brushing) and start power trippin. I think i may have to schedual a day were i do nothing but open carry and see how it goes.

    ill let you know, but I think we need to schedual a Indiana open carry event of some kind.

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