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Thread: Zen and the Art of Forum Maintenance

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    This falls in "knowing thy enemy." This article is about "die ins" being held because of VT. I find these people morbid in their approach. Rational debate is beyond them, and they resort to these emotional publicity stunts. Know your enemy...they will captitalize off of any calamity. I simply cannot respect people like that...emotional grave robbers.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051301274.html



    EDIT: Thread moved to http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=3060&forum_id=4&jump_to= 42570

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    The article almost makes it seem like they're protesting the rapidity with which someone (presumably literate) can complete a form and make a phone call (the store performed the requisite NICS check). Maybe they'll do a mass-self-immolation in front of GM next to protest how quickly internal combustion engines ignite when someone turns a key. One can only hope... Idiots.

    -ljp




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    While I wouldn't go quite as far south as a die-in, using emotional-impact messages is the essence of advertising. People respond to it. You will never see an accountant listing the benefits and advantages in a matter-of-fact tone of voiceabout aChevy truck on television.

    I think we pass upa bit of opportunity by restricting ourselves to "rational" discussion in the public sphere.

    Butthen again,maybe a die-in is what's needed.For example,but not a serious example, ten people show up at an MMM meeting with cuts and slashes and have a die-in for all thedisarmedpeople who have been injured or killed. Have a nurse-costume holding a rape kit. Have a parent holding a "dead" child because they couldn't stop the Bad Guy. Have a big sign that says disarmed people die, etc.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a little more shrillness in 2A messages about gun-controllers, either. Lets start calling them what they are: "murder-adocates, rape-advocates, genocide-advocates." Seize the initiative.When they then claim its not true,show the world the facts, e.g. that the major genocides in the 20th century occurred after the citizens were disarmed.Letthepress-release start with the words, "The murder-advocates at MMM..."




    EDIT: Thread moved to http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=3060&forum_id=4&jump_to= 42570
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Well at least now we know what the MMM has been trying to hide from us. These are the plans they have been cooking up behind those closed meetings.

    The Virginia MMM president even says at the bottom of this article that she will spread the message in Virginia.

    Regards



    EDIT: Thread moved to http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=3060&forum_id=4&jump_to= 42570
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Collier4385 wrote:
    This falls in "knowing thy enemy." This article is about "die ins" being held because of VT. I find these people morbid in their approach. Rational debate is beyond them, and they resort to these emotional publicity stunts. Know your enemy...they will captitalize off of any calamity. I simply cannot respect people like that...emotional grave robbers.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051301274.html


    Hardly morbid. That's just because you don't like their point of view. Plenty of pro-gun/rights folks were making use of the deadin various ways to make their points after the VTU massacre.

    Looking at the protest critically, it was focused, well implemented, communicatedareasonablemessage, gota favorable full column and pic in Post and may be replicated.

    That means that from a protest and rhetorical perspective they did very well. They achieved a good, for them, outcome.

    I'm not so sure it was an MMM event, though.


    As far as "knowing your enemy," that doesn't really seem quite necessary for most pro-gun/rights advocates. Just call 'em antis and accuse them of coming to take all our guns. That's usually all that happens. It's simpler and there is no discrimination required.

    It's be nice if the pro-gun/rights side could develop some equally successful "protests" or informational events. An annual National Carry Day would be something that might work in that regard...


    ETA: Looks like there was another "lie-in" in NYC on May 24.

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    HankT wrote:
    Collier4385 wrote:
    This falls in "knowing thy enemy." This article is about "die ins" being held because of VT. I find these people morbid in their approach. Rational debate is beyond them, and they resort to these emotional publicity stunts. Know your enemy...they will captitalize off of any calamity. I simply cannot respect people like that...emotional grave robbers.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051301274.html
    Hardly morbid. That's just because you don't like their point of view.
    Collier, it that true? Does HankT know you so well as to be able to speak as to what's in your mind based on one small paragraph? (BTW, I think you nailed it when you called them"emotional grave robbers".)

    Personally I also find it disgustingly morbid and if I was one of the VT parents that lost a child, I would be furious over ANY political group trying to use such a horrid display to play on emotions and capitalize from my child's death to further their political agenda, whether or not I agreed with them. Wrong is wrong.

    So taping the MMM meeting was a train wreck and this sad display was a success.? Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.



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    Interesting how the "Die-In" referenced in the article was held in Bethesda. Doesn't Maryland have a mandatory 7-day "cooling-off period" to purchase firearms?
    ---

  8. #8
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    BobCav wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Collier4385 wrote:
    This falls in "knowing thy enemy." This article is about "die ins" being held because of VT. I find these people morbid in their approach. Rational debate is beyond them, and they resort to these emotional publicity stunts. Know your enemy...they will captitalize off of any calamity. I simply cannot respect people like that...emotional grave robbers.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051301274.html
    Hardly morbid. That's just because you don't like their point of view.
    Collier, it that true? Does HankT know you so well as to be able to speak as to what's in your mind based on one small paragraph? (BTW, I think you nailed it when you called them"emotional grave robbers".)

    Personally I also find it disgustingly morbid and if I was one of the VT parents that lost a child, I would be furious over ANY political group trying to use such a horrid display to play on emotions and capitalize from my child's death to further their political agenda, whether or not I agreed with them. Wrong is wrong.

    So taping the MMM meeting was a train wreck and this sad display was a success.? Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.
    Without any question. As I specifically mentioned in the above post, the lie-in protest was:

    • focused
    • well implemented
    • communicatedareasonablemessage
    • gota favorable full column and pic in the Post
    • and may be replicated

    The"taping" of the MMM meeting (Trainwreck I and II) was:

    • unorganized
    • badly implemented (no meeting was ever taped)
    • didn't communicate a cohesive messag message for VCDL or OCDC
    • got negative press
    • won't happen again

    It's very interesting indeed why one could not possibly see that. It's so clear.



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    Blah...blah...blah....

    Then plan one betterand get in the arena.

  10. #10
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    BobCav wrote:
    Blah...blah...blah....
    That's it? That's your rebuttal? On a substantive issue? With several factors and some complex relationships?

    And all you can say is blah/blah/blah?

    OK with me.

    At least you didn't point out my typo and misspell. :P

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    HankT wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    Blah...blah...blah....
    That's it? That's your rebuttal? On a substantive issue? With several factors and some complex relationships?

    And all you can say is blah/blah/blah?

    OK with me.

    At least you didn't point out my typo and misspell. :P
    Here's my rebuttal. Until you actually sack up, plan a meeting/debate with the MMM folks like you "suggest" all the time,or just plain 'oleget involved, why don't you just be quiet for a change. It seems to me all you ever do is try to out-do or out-think everyone, type extremely lengthy posts which most people don't read, use obscure, "educated" words to appear smart or something, and come up with cute little nicknames (ie Trainwreck I and II) to describe events that although you did absolutely nothing support, somehow you think could have been done better.

    So how about you let me know when you've scheduled the debate with the MMMs. You are planning it, correct?!?

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think I need to get a camera and start shadowing these folks. Seems to make them run and hide. Maybe we will catch them in a 'Macaca' moment.

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    Each one of you had comments with some very good points,Citizen, Hawk, Bob and HankT, I think Hank is right when He compares the orginzational differances between the two events.

    Citizen has a point when it comes to some sort of orginized public display to get people to listen.

    Bob, you'r right! It makes me want to vomit.

    Hawk, I think now we know why they got there pantys in a wad when we shoed up!

    I do see a drawback in staging some kind of public display. I think we would be hard pressed to getany fair media coverage.

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    Reverend73 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    Blah...blah...blah....
    That's it? That's your rebuttal? On a substantive issue? With several factors and some complex relationships?

    And all you can say is blah/blah/blah?

    OK with me.

    At least you didn't point out my typo and misspell. :P
    Here's my rebuttal. Until you actually sack up, plan a meeting/debate with the MMM folks like you "suggest" all the time,or just plain 'oleget involved, why don't you just be quiet for a change. It seems to me all you ever do is try to out-do or out-think everyone, type extremely lengthy posts which most people don't read, use obscure, "educated" words to appear smart or something, and come up with cute little nicknames (ie Trainwreck I and II) to describe events that although you did absolutely nothing support, somehow you think could have been done better.

    So how about you let me know when you've scheduled the debate with the MMMs. You are planning it, correct?!?
    Bob, did you go to the two MMM meetings we are speaking of?



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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    [...SNIP
    Bob, did you go¬* to the two MMM meetings we are speaking of?
    Did you?
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    [...SNIP
    Bob, did you go to the two MMM meetings we are speaking of?
    Did you?
    +1

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    (yawn) Can we please get back to planning the demise of the Million Murder-Advocating Mothers?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    (yawn)¬* Can we please get back to planning the demise of the Million Murder-Advocating Mothers?
    I think I can safely say yes.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  19. #19
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    Received from HankT via PM:

    _____Original Message_____
    From: HankT
    Date: 2007-06-14 19:03:07
    Subject: Maybe You Can Review What You've Written


    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...o=42425#p42425

    Bob, you're embarassing yourself. That's not good for you. Nor is it good for the forum.

    HankT




    How pathetic.

    Actually no, I'm not "embarrassed" at all. Nordo youspeak for what is good for me or for the forum. Nobody here is willing to live life by your rules, nor carry by your rules, nor plan meetings by your plans, nor respond to situations by your standards, nor post by your rules, nor operate the forum by your rules.

    Calling you out doesno good. Ignoring you does no good. Trying to be your friend does no good. Laying it all out does no good. You obviously have an agenda that does not coincide with the best interests of OCDO since you keep coming back to the same theme time after time after time.That theme is that YOU seem to think that you have all the answers to everything and everyone else is wrong. It must be wonderful to live in a world like that, Hank. It must also be very, very lonely. Either you have nowhere else to go, or you're here for another purpose.

    I'm not the only one that has noticed that you never said hello when you came here, no introduction, no camaraderie whatsoever and youimmediately began pontificating:

    For those interested, here's the beginning of HankT's posts here on OCDO:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...04&page=26

    Interestingly enough, only 6 daysafter joining, you actually had the nerve to make this pretty bold statement aboutanother memberAFTER ONLY 6 DAYS! http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...o=17307#p17307


    I gotta think PackininVB is a Brady or other anti plant.

    It's the only thing that makes sense.
    Why would you say something like that if not to immediately distract attention away from yourself? Why then would you feel the need to do that?

    If OCDO is full of people who are constantly wrong, in your mind, why stay here if not to intentionally antagonize? I wouldn't want to stay in a place where I'm obviously not welcome. The fact that you have made it to 1000 posts speaks to the patience and forgiveness of the members of this forum.

    To be honest at this stage, I don't care if you carry anything at all. Your words say one thing, but youractions tell each of us that you arehere to cause dissent and stir the pot. I judge people by actions, not words. As do mostpeople.

    Perhaps it's a sick twisted anti-social behavior that causes you to somehow reap some form of satisfaction from all this chaos you create. Perhaps you thrive off the negative attention because having no way of creating positive attention, you thrive on anything at all.

    Hank, I honestly don't care if you have fifteen degrees, are a MENSA member, own your own multi-million dollar business, or are a high ranking politician. I don't care if you have 500 guns, 30 cars, six homes, or anything else for that matter. I don't care if you're a better logistician, a better speller, abetter shot, better anything. I also don't even careif you're a sad lonely little man living behind your computer starving for attention after having alienated all those in your life you have ever loved.

    If you truly are the person that you have purported yourself to be, then I trulyfeel sorry for you because you're either extremely anti-social or extremelyanti. Either way, your welcome is wearing thin. If I had the ability to ban you, I would this instant for the betterment of the whole.

    I would rather have one friend from this forum than anything you have. At least I know they would stand beside me when it matters the most. A man who has friends has everything.

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    Folks, my sincere apologies and to the OP for this mess, but enough is enough. I thank everyone for trying so very hard to get alongwith HankT, but it just isn't working out.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well you gotta wonder about him with 1004 posts I haven't seen a single OC experience.

  22. #22
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Well you gotta wonder about him with 1004 posts I haven't seen a single OC experience.
    There are 1,813 members here. Longwatch, how many of them do you estimate OC?

    And of the 1813 members, how many have postedan OC experience?

    What do you think, longwatch?

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Well you gotta wonder about him with 1004 posts I haven't seen a single OC experience.
    There are 1,813 members here. Longwatch, how many of them do you estimate OC?

    And of the 1813 members, how many have postedan OC experience?

    What do you think, longwatch?
    Not very much about someone who doesn't have what it takes to exercise their rights.

  24. #24
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    Stop feeding the troll!!!!
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  25. #25
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Well you gotta wonder about him with 1004 posts I haven't seen a single OC experience.
    There are 1,813 members here. Longwatch, how many of them do you estimate OC?

    And of the 1813 members, how many have postedan OC experience?

    What do you think, longwatch?
    Not very much about someone who doesn't have what it takes to exercise their rights.
    I mean about the 1,813 members. How many of them do you think OC?

    And how many have posted an OC experience?

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