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    I've been wanting to get my concealed weapons permit for a while, however two things have been stopping me:
    1. you have to do it 9-5, monday-friday. I don't feel like taking off of work for something that I shouldn't have to have a license for.
    2. I hate background checks. I've gone through many, and don't have so much as a parking or speeding ticket to my name, ever, period. However, I'm afraid somebody will screw up and my SSN/fingerprints will come up as the zodiac killer or some crap. So what if I'm innocent, I don't think I should have to prove that to anyone!

    The other thing is that I don't think I should have to have a license to carry a damn gun.
    I hereby propose:

    A campaign writing our state officials to repeal the requirement for a permit could have a shot. Instead of sucking up to their BS requirements, why don't we just fight it? Vermont has no requirement for a permit, why can't we?

    If you're interested, let me know. I'll make up a basic form letter that you can edit and we can go from there. If anyone knows someone in VCDL that could get us some "press time" that would be great. I can probably get us mentioned in the richmond libertarian newsletter. Let me know what you think!

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The other thing is that I don't think I should have to have a license to carry a damn gun.*
    SNIP...
    You don't. You need a license to HIDE the weapon from plain sight.

    I keep hearing people call for a movement to eliminate the permit requirement ala Vermont. It would be a LOT smarter to remove it ala Alaska. In Alaska those that want a permit can get one for reciprocity with other states. Vermont does not provide this option, and those people can ONLY carry in Vermont.

    Regards

    PS- Vermonter, please don't reply here, we already know how nice Vermont was before the New Yorkers moved there and spoiled it.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  3. #3
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I keep hearing people call for a movement to eliminate the permit requirement ala Vermont. It would be a LOT smarter to remove it ala Alaska. In Alaska those that want a permit can get one for reciprocity with other states. Vermont does not provide this option, and those people can ONLY carry in Vermont.
    I am one who prefers AK style permitting.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The other thing is that I don't think I should have to have a license to carry a damn gun.
    SNIP...
    You don't. You need a license to HIDE the weapon from plain sight.

    I keep hearing people call for a movement to eliminate the permit requirement ala Vermont. It would be a LOT smarter to remove it ala Alaska. In Alaska those that want a permit can get one for reciprocity with other states. Vermont does not provide this option, and those people can ONLY carry in Vermont.

    Regards

    PS- Vermonter, please don't reply here, we already know how nice Vermont was before the New Yorkers moved there and spoiled it.
    I'm going to second that.. Don't get vermonter started!! We finally got his to slow down now as it is...

    The only problem is that any rang-a-muffin criminal will be able to hide a gun as they walk about. When we do catch them... it is one less stat for me and I need all the stats I can get to keep my boss happy.

    Matter-o-fact.. savery... How about letting me turn you in as the zodiac killer so I can close some cases and get enough stats to last till the end of the year.. What do you say??

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP Matter-o-fact.. savery... How about letting me turn you in as the zodiac killer so I can close some cases and get enough stats to last till the end of the year.. What do you say??
    Since when did you come over all ethical and start asking?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    savery wrote:
    I've been wanting to get my concealed weapons permit for a while, however two things have been stopping me:
    1. you have to do it 9-5, monday-friday. I don't feel like taking off of work for something that I shouldn't have to have a license for.
    2. I hate background checks. I've gone through many, and don't have so much as a parking or speeding ticket to my name, ever, period. However, I'm afraid somebody will screw up and my SSN/fingerprints will come up as the zodiac killer or some crap. So what if I'm innocent, I don't think I should have to prove that to anyone!
    So, you do not like taking off work?? What kind of job do you have because thats what I want to do.

    Depending on your area you may not need finger prints. It took me 10 minutes including the time I spent at the courthouse filling out the paper work to apply. Just make sure you bring that $50 in cash.

    I can see not needing a permit, but its not like we are in MD where they can just say no.

    The arguement for them should be, "We are not fighting drugs here people, you just can't say No."

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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP Matter-o-fact.. savery... How about letting me turn you in as the zodiac killer so I can close some cases and get enough stats to last till the end of the year.. What do you say??
    Since when did you come over all ethical and start asking?
    I need his cooperation only because I do not yet know where he lives...

  8. #8
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    savery wrote:
    I've been wanting to get my concealed weapons permit for a while, however two things have been stopping me:
    1. you have to do it 9-5, monday-friday. I don't feel like taking off of work for something that I shouldn't have to have a license for.
    2. I hate background checks. I've gone through many, and don't have so much as a parking or speeding ticket to my name, ever, period. However, I'm afraid somebody will screw up and my SSN/fingerprints will come up as the zodiac killer or some crap. So what if I'm innocent, I don't think I should have to prove that to anyone!
    If you really want something... you will make the time. You could go in to work late or leave early one day. The process will not take that long.

    background checks are a way of life. Getting a credit card, a loan, Your mortgage... You have done good staying out of trouble and now you can rest assured that your application will go through just fine.

    I would not worry about your name hitting on some serial killer. Unless there is a killer out there that is known with your name, DOB, and home address.... Your not going to be mistaken.

    So go fill out that app and look forward to checking the mail every day till you get it!!!!



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    Many states will allow Vermont residents to acquire a letter from their local police chief indicating that they are a citizen in good standing. Unfortunately that leaves it up to the local police authorities to determine who gets such a letter. I was fortunate to have lived in Maine prior to moving to Vermont and had a Maine State resident permit to carry concealed firearms and used that to get an NH and PA nonresident. Of course I had to reapply for a Maine nonresident...

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    Alaska style would be fine.

    The bottom line:

    I DONT NEED A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING GRANTED BY THE CONSTITUTION!


    I suppose that's my main concern. my other concern that I forgot to mention was the fact that they put that "tag" on your registration. Mind you that could be solved by establishing a corporation and registering my vehicle to it, however I don't feel I should have to do that just to keep from being harassed by the police.

    speaking of which, LEO229 - You mean Citizen's serial numbers didn't turn up enough for you to go on?

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    savery wrote:
    Alaska style would be fine.

    The bottom line:

    I DONT NEED A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING GRANTED BY THE CONSTITUTION!


    I suppose that's my main concern. my other concern that I forgot to mention was the fact that they put that "tag" on your registration. Mind you that could be solved by establishing a corporation and registering my vehicle to it, however I don't feel I should have to do that just to keep from being harassed by the police.

    speaking of which, LEO229 - You mean Citizen's serial numbers didn't turn up enough for you to go on?
    Naw... he admitted that he transposed a few numbers... He was messing with me.. But his day is coming soon. Wait till I get home and we have dinner.. I am going to really let him have it!

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The bottom line:

    I DONT NEED A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING GRANTED BY THE CONSTITUTION!
    SNIP...
    OF course you realize that the Constitution does not GRANT anything, It just recognizes a natural right of all humans.

    (Hey if I didn't point it out someone else would)

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The bottom line:

    I DONT NEED A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING GRANTED BY THE CONSTITUTION!
    SNIP...
    OF course you realize that the Constitution does not GRANT anything, It just recognizes a natural right of all humans.

    (Hey if I didn't point it out someone else would)

    Regards
    I thought about saying something but... decided to let someone else enter the firing line.


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    savery wrote:
    I've been wanting to get my concealed weapons permit for a while, however two things have been stopping me:
    ......
    2. I hate background checks. I've gone through many, and don't have so much as a parking or speeding ticket to my name, ever, period. However, I'm afraid somebody will screw up and my SSN/fingerprints will come up as the zodiac killer or some crap. So what if I'm innocent, I don't think I should have to prove that to anyone!
    If through some wild screw-up, your "record" has been erroneouslylinked to some felon,investigation, kind of crime, zodiac or otherwise, such a linkage won't go away simply because you do not undergo the background check for the CWP. The error would still be there--even if you don't apply.

    If you need the permit, then it's gotta be better to get it and use it for whatever you need it for.

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    I agree with Hank.... Just do it! The problem, if any, would not go away and could surface at a much worse time.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The bottom line:

    I DONT NEED A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING GRANTED BY THE CONSTITUTION!
    SNIP...
    OF course you realize that the Constitution does not GRANT anything, It just recognizes a natural right of all humans.

    (Hey if I didn't point it out someone else would)

    Regards
    +1

  17. #17
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    I agree completely that we shouldn't have to have a permit to carry concealed weapons. I have never really understand why Virginia stopped issuing concealed "weapon" permits and started issuing "Concealed handgun permits". I, at one time, had one of the old CWP's. It authorized carrying guns, knives (including switchblades), blackjacks, and I don't remember what else. I never made sense to me that an individual who can legally carry a firearm can't carry a fixed blade knife (or automatic opening knife) on their belt and put their coat on. I know knives are kind of off topic here, but in a free society the citizen should be able to carry anything the police can carry.I would gladly get on board with any attempt to get "Alaska Carry" in Virginia.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    savery wrote:
    ...SNIP
    The other thing is that I don't think I should have to have a license to carry a damn gun.
    SNIP...
    You don't. You need a license to HIDE the weapon from plain sight.

    I keep hearing people call for a movement to eliminate the permit requirement ala Vermont. It would be a LOT smarter to remove it ala Alaska. In Alaska those that want a permit can get one for reciprocity with other states. Vermont does not provide this option, and those people can ONLY carry in Vermont.

    Regards

    PS- Vermonter, please don't reply here, we already know how nice Vermont was before the New Yorkers moved there and spoiled it.
    I'm going to second that.. Don't get vermonter started!! We finally got his to slow down now as it is...

    The only problem is that any rang-a-muffin criminal will be able to hide a gun as they walk about. When we do catch them... it is one less stat for me and I need all the stats I can get to keep my boss happy.

    Matter-o-fact.. savery... How about letting me turn you in as the zodiac killer so I can close some cases and get enough stats to last till the end of the year.. What do you say??
    If the rag-a-muffin criminal is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm, then he would also be prohibited from carrying. I know, unless you arrested (or lawfully detained)him for some other crime you wouldn't be able to charge him for the gun. That's where Operation Exile comes in, and you send him away for minimum of 5 years.

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    glocknroll wrote:
    I agree completely that we shouldn't have to have a permit to carry concealed weapons. I have never really understand why Virginia stopped issuing concealed "weapon" permits and started issuing "Concealed handgun permits". I, at one time, had one of the old CWP's. It authorized carrying guns, knives (including switchblades), blackjacks, and I don't remember what else. I never made sense to me that an individual who can legally carry a firearm can't carry a fixed blade knife (or automatic opening knife) on their belt and put their coat on. I know knives are kind of off topic here, but in a free society the citizen should be able to carry anything the police can carry.I would gladly get on board with any attempt to get "Alaska Carry" in Virginia.
    Well, since there is a code that does prohibit the possession of a switch blade as well as many other weapons... Maybe this is why they changed it from "weapon" to "handgun"....



    § 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

    If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

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    savery,

    I know at least one VCDL member who refuses to get a CHP because he refuses to cooperate with the government on the subject. He open carries--he doesn't ignore the requirement and CC anyway, he just OC's.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    I agree completely that we shouldn't have to have a permit to carry concealed weapons. I have never really understand why Virginia stopped issuing concealed "weapon" permits and started issuing "Concealed handgun permits". I, at one time, had one of the old CWP's. It authorized carrying guns, knives (including switchblades), blackjacks, and I don't remember what else. I never made sense to me that an individual who can legally carry a firearm can't carry a fixed blade knife (or automatic opening knife) on their belt and put their coat on. I know knives are kind of off topic here, but in a free society the citizen should be able to carry anything the police can carry.I would gladly get on board with any attempt to get "Alaska Carry" in Virginia.
    Well, since there is a code that does prohibit the possession of a switch blade as well as many other weapons... Maybe this is why they changed it from "weapon" to "handgun"....



    § 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

    If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.
    It was my understanding that the permits issued at the time exempted you from that particular provision. I never really got into all the specifics at the time, but all the things I listed were listed on the back of the permit as being weapons that were permitted to the permit holder. I wish I still had that old permit, if even as a memento. When "shall issue" came into effect, the permits became handgun permits. It's aggravating, because I had an excellent Benchmade AFO auto that Isold before I left Iraq, since I knew I couldn't bring it home. They were selling them in the PX there. Everybody and his uncle had one.

  22. #22
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    The bill of rights doesn't grant anything, it tells the government that they are not to do anything mentioned in amendments 1-10.

    For me, It's more than getting a permit. The reasons I mentioned are "convenience" reasons so that most people could relate. My deep, underlying reason is that it's unlawful under the constitution. (I will say that one of my biggest concern is the flag they put on your vehicle registration. Cops love to screw with me for some reason.)

    This is something that I'd love to work on, but I'd need help. I've got a few ideas, but I'd really like to get the help of VCDL and/or GOA on board, for both their contacts and clout. If you're interested in helping in some way, shape or form, let me know. Send me a PM.

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    glocknroll wrote:
    It was my understanding that the permits issued at the time exempted you from that particular provision. I never really got into all the specifics at the time, but all the things I listed were listed on the back of the permit as being weapons that were permitted to the permit holder. I wish I still had that old permit, if even as a memento. When "shall issue" came into effect, the permits became handgun permits. It's aggravating, because I had an excellent Benchmade AFO auto that Isold before I left Iraq, since I knew I couldn't bring it home. They were selling them in the PX there. Everybody and his uncle had one.
    I carry one... Very nice knife...

    I can understand your frustrations... Do you have any idea when the laws were enacted pertaining to restricting concealed weapons?

    I figure... a law isnormally created only after a need to stop some type of activity or if the government needs to have a legal waytake action in some circumstance.

  24. #24
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    savery wrote:
    For me, It's more than getting a permit. The reasons I mentioned are "convenience" reasons so that most people could relate. My deep, underlying reason is that it's unlawful under the constitution. (I will say that one of my biggest concern is the flag they put on your vehicle registration. Cops love to screw with me for some reason.)
    I know a few people like you who just get a Florida or Utah permit. That way you're still legal and at the same time not directly submitting to the permit requirement by the Commonwealth. Plus the cops (& Roanoke Times) here won't know that you have a permit unless you tell them.

    I kind of look at it as a legitimate way to protest the current permitting system.

    Just something to think about...

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    It was my understanding that the permits issued at the time exempted you from that particular provision. I never really got into all the specifics at the time, but all the things I listed were listed on the back of the permit as being weapons that were permitted to the permit holder. I wish I still had that old permit, if even as a memento. When "shall issue" came into effect, the permits became handgun permits. It's aggravating, because I had an excellent Benchmade AFO auto that Isold before I left Iraq, since I knew I couldn't bring it home. They were selling them in the PX there. Everybody and his uncle had one.
    I carry one... Very nice knife...

    I can understand your frustrations... Do you have any idea when the laws were enacted pertaining to restricting concealed weapons?

    I figure... a law isnormally created only after a need to stop some type of activity or if the government needs to have a legal waytake action in some circumstance.
    No, I don't have any idea when these restrictions were put into place. I had always heard that most of these laws were put into effect during the gangster (not gangsta) era of the '20s and '30s, but I have never taken the time to research it.

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