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Thread: Man with gun at Harrisburg Area Community College breaks no law but is sent to funny farm?

  1. #1
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    This one sounds weird. First report often are.

    See http://www.abc27.com/news/stories/0607/432902.html

    Is HACC chartered by a local agency?

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    http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnews...d_at_hacc.html

    Holy crap! That's scary stuff...

    How do we know the context that this persons comments were made in?

    And they "searched his car and house"? WTF? Searched by what probable cause, not breaking any law? Or did he (foolishly) consent to these searches that would be illegal if he had not?

    This story stinks, bad!

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    OK, now they are claiming that the man was adjudicated mentally incompetent and committed within hours? Huh?

    ----------------------

    http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnews...d_at_hacc.html
    Man with guns arrested at HACC
    Posted by Tom Bowman/The Patriot-News June 20, 2007 12:57PM
    Categories: Crime, Dauphin County, Education, Midstate

    A man armed with a 9 mm pistol who police said talked about Virginia Tech was arrested yesterday inside Cooper Student Center at Harrisburg Area Community College.

    The man approached a student and said he had guns in his car, Harrisburg Police Chief Charles Kellar said.

    "It would be worse than Virginia Tech if someone broke into my car. I have guns in the car," Dauphin County First Assistant District Attorney Fran Chardo quoted the man.

    John Sakkas of Lemoyne said he heard about a man with a gun at Cooper Student Center during his 8 a.m. speech class today.

    The student told an armed HACC security guard that the man had a pistol, and the guards called Harrisburg police, then watched him until police arrived, said HACC spokeswoman Tracy Mendoza.

    City police searched the man, found the 9 mm loaded handgun in his backpack, then took him to the police station, Mendoza said.

    Kellar said the man had a concealed weapons permit and was legally allowed to carry a pistol. Police searched his car and found a second pistol there and another firearm in his home.

    Police talked with Chardo about charging the man. Chardo said what the man said would not qualify as a terroristic threat because there has to be an intent to terrorize another person.

    "Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

    Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

    A source close to the police said the man lives in the 3700 block of Green Street, Susquehanna Twp. The Patriot-News is withholding the man's name because he has not been charged with any offense.

    Neither HACC nor Harrisburg police released any information on the incident yesterday.

    After the man was arrested, HACC chief spokesman Pat Early sent out an e-mail to the college staff explaining the incident. Early said he did not tell the students or the public about the incident.

    "It was something that was handled quickly, quietly. There wasn't anything to tell," Early said. "Our (security) officers approached the man when the Harrisburg police arrived. They determined indeed he was carrying a weapon. He was taken into custody and removed from the campus."


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    Oh my eff... they just put him on the defective list for SAYING something? (I read the comment, it didn't seem that bad at all) Still it doesn't put the rest of us CCW people in a good light. : (
    -Unrequited

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    Well I must say, the anti's are being creative now in stealing guns. Claiming that someone is insane, forcing them to be institutionalized, and all while capitalizing on an atrocity that they themselves were responsible for.


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    unrequited wrote:
    Oh my eff... they just put him on the defective list for SAYING something? (I read the comment, it didn't seem that bad at all) Still it doesn't put the rest of us CCW people in a good light. : (
    I grabbed this from the news-blog...

    It appears that the "DA" doesn't know the law, so as long as "Mr. Gun on Campus" comes out of the evaluation with a clean bill of health, he's OK..

    This is a good example of why you can't talk with your coworkers about the guns & ammo, too many "idiots" will phone the police because you CARRY GUNS, HAVE GUNS IN YOUR CAR AND HAVE GUNS IN YOUR HOUSE..

    Maybe the problem isn't gun control.. It's so many FRIGGIN MORONS IN SOCIETY (sorry, had to vent)

    -----------------------------

    <copied from news blog>
    302s were horribly misused to rob citizens of their rights in the past, and some cops still think they can get away with it. This guy shouldn't let them. He did nothing wrong...except open his yap about his weapons a little too freely among hoplophobes.

    From PA Title 18, section 6111.1

    1. Upon receipt of a copy of the order of a court of competent jurisdiction which vacates a final order or an involuntary certification issued by a mental health review officer, the Pennsylvania State Police shall expunge all records of the involuntary treatment received under subsection (f).
    2. A person who is involuntarily committed pursuant to section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act may petition the court to review the sufficiency of the evidence upon which the commitment was based. If the court determines that the evidence upon which the involuntary commitment was based was insufficient, the court shall order that the record of the commitment submitted to the Pennsylvania State Police be expunged. A petition filed under this subsection shall toll the 60-day period set forth under section 6105(a)(2).
    3. The Pennsylvania State Police shall expunge all records of an involuntary commitment of an individual who is discharged from a mental health facility based upon the initial review by the physician occurring within two hours of arrival under section 302(b) of the Mental Health Procedures Act and the physician's determination that no severe mental disability existed pursuant to section 302(b) of the Mental Health Procedures Act. The physician shall provide signed confirmation of the determination of the lack of severe mental disability following the initial examination under section 302(b) of the Mental Health Procedures Act to the Pennsylvania State Police.

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    The way it reads, the man was saying that should someone break into his car, they would find mounds of ammo and a gun. Now armed, this person could go out and create a situation worse than VA Tech. Once again, I think I'm missing something due to the fact that English is my second language, but is there anything in his statement that would constitute a threat or an insinuation of conspiracy to commit? Is this the country we live in today? Am I going to be committed next time I come back from the range during my lunchbreak only to have someone have me arrested because I smell like gun powder?

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    Officers went on to say that when they interviewed him he was in a confused state.

    Could easily beconfused as in: "Officer, I have a permit, am within the law, and am not threatening anyone. Why am I being detained????"

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    The way it reads, the man was saying that should someone break into his car, they would find mounds of ammo and a gun. Now armed, this person could go out and create a situation worse than VA Tech.
    That is EXACTLY what I got from that comment. I couldn't count how many times people have taken a simple, innocent statement I've made and twisted it around to be something absolutely ridiculous. (i.e. a womanasks me "Is it hot in here, or is it just me?" I think it's a comfortable temperature in the room,so Ireply "It's just you". Next thing you know, she's claiming I've made an unwanted sexual advance. :shock


    Officers went on to say that when they interviewed him he was in a confused state.

    Could easily beconfused as in: "Officer, I have a permit, am within the law, and am not threatening anyone. Why am I being detained????"
    Yeah, that'd confused the crap out of me, too.

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    Looks like anytime the cops want to disarm anyone all they have to do is "Involuntarily" have said person "Committed" , then Bingo rights and guns are gone , now try to get'em back!!!!!!!

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    I look forward to hearing the outcome of this situation.

    It is really scary to think that some ADA can randomly have you committed in an effort to cause you the loss of your right to own/carry a firearm. I hope that the Title 18, section 6111.1 reg holds water.

    On the other hand, the guy sounds kinda whack-o-- Having ski-mask and black gloves with pistol in his car, 22 police calls to his house, saying anything in relation to his own guns/VT incident on a campus, and not being a student on that campus. These things put together cause me to question this individuals decision making ability.

    Ican't reallycriticize the decision to have a psychiatrist/clinical psychologist evaluate the individual. Maybe the guy is just a nit-wit, but maybe he is a total nut-job. Only a professional can make that decision. Based on the questionable behavior that the individual displayed, I suspect that it is wise to have him evaluated.

    Don't get me wrong here, I am 100% in favor of the right to bear arms, I exercise that right all the time. I just think it is important to keep guns out of the hands of those that show significant potential to be a threat to others, as evaluated by a qualified mental health professional.

    If the guy's a nut, take his guns. If he is not a nut, I hope he sues the hell out of the ADA and whoever else he can.

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    Utah has really stupid laws that allow people to be involuntarily committed by your neighbours or family who don't like you (just one anonymous phone call). You're then in a position to defend yourself before a judge and a shrink. If you're let out, your rights are still superceded. It doesn't happen often because few people know about the law.

    However's it's a known land mine for superceding gun rights.

    Some years back there was a bill introduced into the Utah state legislature that would allow a person to get their rights back after this kind of abuse.

    Unfortunately, the conservative talk radio host Michael Reagan did a knee-jerk reaction and helped out on the anti-gun dog pile, claiming that we wanted to give crazy people guns. He was bemoaning the attempted assination of his father by John Hinkley as a reason why this bill was evil.

    Unfortunately his show was on time-delay and I couldn't call, so I was left to shout at the radio on a dark country road.

    We still have this stupid set of laws, and the same thing can happen here in Utah at any time. Just claim they guy's crazy, confused, whatever, send him to the mental hospital rather than the police station. Sayonara!

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    This scares the hell out of me.

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    ,, being sent to shrink for some sort of evaluation, should NOT ban a person from ever owning firearms, and that is what is going on,

    I can see how this new law will be used,. creating new groups of americans whom are banned from firearms,.

    \ I say B S ,.,. this corrupt government can ban me all they want,

    and they can pry my gun from my cold dead fingers.

    the United Nations has a giant metal sculpture of a colt revolver,twisted, they are determined to disarm americans, as we are the last nation left with an armed citizenry. the last hope for freedom,

    what happens in the USA will determine the future of humanity.

    will we be reduced to chattel serfdom slaves to some sort of "new world order"


    Attached Images Attached Images

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    FINGER OUT OF THE TRIGGER!



    > )
    -Unrequited

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    Cops can't "commit" anyone, even at the DA's behest. Perhaps he's being held for 72-hour evaluation, but that of itself is not sufficient to make him a prohibited person. Even if that's what happened, it seems a rather deliberate effort to misunderstand this guy's remark.

    -ljp

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    This country is going nuts! Some of this crap is starting to sound like the story line from that movie with Tom Cruise, Minority Report. Basically,the story line is about people are being arrested for crimes they would supposedly commit in the future.

    This is headed down a road I do not like at all! It is the continued attack of the media on gun owners. They are doing their best to convince America that anyone that carries a firearm in not mentally stable and will eventually commit a crime with that gun becauseall gun ownersare a violent people.

    And I had just gotten my blood pressure down to a normal level....

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    Legba wrote:
    Cops can't "commit" anyone, even at the DA's behest. Perhaps he's being held for 72-hour evaluation, but that of itself is not sufficient to make him a prohibited person. Even if that's what happened, it seems a rather deliberate effort to misunderstand this guy's remark.

    -ljp
    Well, that's what a Section 302 referral does in PA, according to PA law, says the Alleghenny County Sportsmen's League in PA.

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    read this story, enough is enough,.,. gun owners of america is the NO compromise gun rights group,.,

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56389

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    Mike wrote:
    Legba wrote:
    Cops can't "commit" anyone, even at the DA's behest. Perhaps he's being held for 72-hour evaluation, but that of itself is not sufficient to make him a prohibited person. Even if that's what happened, it seems a rather deliberate effort to misunderstand this guy's remark.

    -ljp
    Well, that's what a Section 302 referral does in PA, according to PA law, says the Alleghenny County Sportsmen's League in PA.

    Section 302 allows for involuntary examination and treatment, not to exceed 120 hours http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7302.htmlbut this is not disabling under the UFA unless the examining physician does certify that institutionalization was necessary per § 6105(c)(4),

    Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms:

    A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
    Having said that, I find nothing in the news about this event that convinces methe individual presented a "Clear and present danger" to himself or others per http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7301.htmlThe question seems to be "Was LEO acting like a 'reasonable person'?" I am trying to locate a link to a related case from Fayette County (556Pa 63, 726 A. 2d 1041 (1999))- I will post it if I find it, or perhaps someone else can provide a little help....



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    ne1 wrote:
    Section 302 allows for involuntary examination and treatment, not to exceed 120 hours http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7302.htmlbut this is not disabling under the UFA unless the examining physician does certify that institutionalization was necessary per § 6105(c)(4),

    Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms:

    A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
    I see what you are saying - but notice how ther Sheriff revoked his LTCF immediately.

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    The sheriff does have statutory authority to revoke a CCWfor good cause, including for"An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to an institution." There is a process to appeal this through the court. Again, it is possible that he may still retain the right to at least possess a firearm, and OC,provided he was not formally committed (it doesn't look good if he is still in at this point).

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    blues wrote:
    read this story, enough is enough,.,. gun owners of america is the NO compromise gun rights group,.,

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56389
    So apparently "good faith" doesn't apply when you don't carry a badge.

    The result I can see from that is a boost in sales from local Car Trunk Gun Shops, as more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens are stripped of ways to protect themselves.

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    Many NRA members are also "confused". http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Featu...?InfoNo=020494

    I fear there may be a method to this madness.

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