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Man with gun at Harrisburg Area Community College breaks no law but is sent to funny farm?

ne1

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Mike wrote:
Legba wrote:
Cops can't "commit" anyone, even at the DA's behest. Perhaps he's being held for 72-hour evaluation, but that of itself is not sufficient to make him a prohibited person. Even if that's what happened, it seems a rather deliberate effort to misunderstand this guy's remark.

-ljp
Well, that's what a Section 302 referral does in PA, according to PA law, says the Alleghenny County Sportsmen's League in PA.


Section 302 allows for involuntary examination and treatment, not to exceed 120 hours http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7302.htmlbut this is not disabling under the UFA unless the examining physician does certify that institutionalization was necessary per § 6105(c)(4),

Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms:

A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.

Having said that, I find nothing in the news about this event that convinces methe individual presented a "Clear and present danger" to himself or others per http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7301.htmlThe question seems to be "Was LEO acting like a 'reasonable person'?" I am trying to locate a link to a related case from Fayette County (556Pa 63, 726 A. 2d 1041 (1999))- I will post it if I find it, or perhaps someone else can provide a little help....
 

Mike

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ne1 wrote:
Section 302 allows for involuntary examination and treatment, not to exceed 120 hours http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/50PA7302.htmlbut this is not disabling under the UFA unless the examining physician does certify that institutionalization was necessary per § 6105(c)(4),

Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms:

A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
I see what you are saying - but notice how ther Sheriff revoked his LTCF immediately.
 

ne1

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The sheriff does have statutory authority to revoke a CCWfor good cause, including for"An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to an institution." There is a process to appeal this through the court. Again, it is possible that he may still retain the right to at least possess a firearm, and OC,provided he was not formally committed (it doesn't look good if he is still in at this point).
 

imperialism2024

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blues wrote:
read this story, enough is enough,.,. gun owners of america is the NO compromise gun rights group,.,

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56389

So apparently "good faith" doesn't apply when you don't carry a badge.

The result I can see from that is a boost in sales from local Car Trunk Gun Shops, as more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens are stripped of ways to protect themselves.
 

ne1

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BTW, speaking of confusion, what does the following have to do with the OP?

imperialism2024 wrote:
blues wrote:
read this story, enough is enough,.,. gun owners of america is the NO compromise gun rights group,.,

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56389

So apparently "good faith" doesn't apply when you don't carry a badge.

The result I can see from that is a boost in sales from local Car Trunk Gun Shops, as more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens are stripped of ways to protect themselves.
 

DreQo

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Many NRA members are also "confused". http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Feature-Article.htm?InfoNo=020494

I fear there may be a method to this madness.

I'm getting really tired of this crap, especially the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder bullshit. I may very well get diagnosed with that because, from time to time, explosions and extremely loud noises make me nervous, as they remind me of the mortar round that landed close enough to drop rocks on my kevlar. NOT a happy experience, to say the least.

I don't have flashbacks, I don't forget who or where I am...some things just remind me of a really crappy situation. THAT is enough to get me blacklisted?!? :cuss:
 

Legba

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Perhaps "commitment" means something else in PA, but this "section 302" still just looks like an involuntary observation/assessment (albeit 120 hours instead of the 72 we allow in Ohio) and not a judicial finding of incompetence such as would render someone a prohibited person by itself.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter5100/s5100.86.html

-ljp


p.s. sorry, didn't realize this had already beed addressed on a second page of postings... anyway, the guy getting his permit revoked/suspended doesn't mean he can't have guns at all, as I understand the terms of licensure and forfeiture in PA. I'd like to know if this is not the case.
 

Mike

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Well, maybe somebody can email one of these reporters and see if they are going to report on what happens - at the time, the reporters were saying that this guy was prohibited as a matter of PA law already and all his guns were being transferred.
 

imperialism2024

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ne1 wrote:
BTW, speaking of confusion, what does the following have to do with the OP?

imperialism2024 wrote:
blues wrote:
read this story, enough is enough,.,. gun owners of america is the NO compromise gun rights group,.,

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56389

So apparently "good faith" doesn't apply when you don't carry a badge.

The result I can see from that is a boost in sales from local Car Trunk Gun Shops, as more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens are stripped of ways to protect themselves.

Er, it doesn't really... Sorry about that, the quoted story just set me off a bit.
 

Neobayer

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"It would be worse than Virginia Tech if someone broke into my car. I have guns in the car," Dauphin County First Assistant District Attorney Fran Chardo quoted the man.

Police talked with Chardo about charging the man. Chardo said what the man said would not qualify as a terroristic threat because there has to be an intent to terrorize another person.

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

A source close to the police said the man lives in the 3700 block of Green Street, Susquehanna Twp. The Patriot-News is withholding the man's name because he has not been charged with any offense.

The way I read this , Chardo is just way too impressed with himself. " I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily." DA. Chardo seems to have have taken a convoluted path to deny the man of his constiturional rights and his freedom. Chardo seems to take particular delight in the fact that a "302" has taken away his gun rights forever! Sounds like your typical power hungry liberal making us all safer, because they know what's good for us.

It also seems that alot was made of him being "on campus" , however his listed address is right next to the campus. Was he really just in his neighborhood and talked to the "WRONG" person ?

What is the Virgina Tech incident going to be the impetus for grandstanding DA's. Will we start hearing "You know things are different now after V.T. instead of things are different after 911.

There is more (or less) to this story than is being reported
 

Tomahawk

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Neobayer wrote:
Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.
That is pretty scary stuff.
 

psmartin

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Neobayer wrote:
"It would be worse than Virginia Tech if someone broke into my car. I have guns in the car," Dauphin County First Assistant District Attorney Fran Chardo quoted the man.

Police talked with Chardo about charging the man. Chardo said what the man said would not qualify as a terroristic threat because there has to be an intent to terrorize another person.

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

A source close to the police said the man lives in the 3700 block of Green Street, Susquehanna Twp. The Patriot-News is withholding the man's name because he has not been charged with any offense.

The way I read this , Chardo is just way too impressed with himself. " I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily." DA. Chardo seems to have have taken a convoluted path to deny the man of his constiturional rights and his freedom. Chardo seems to take particular delight in the fact that a "302" has taken away his gun rights forever! Sounds like your typical power hungry liberal making us all safer, because they know what's good for us.

It also seems that alot was made of him being "on campus" , however his listed address is right next to the campus. Was he really just in his neighborhood and talked to the "WRONG" person ?

What is the Virgina Tech incident going to be the impetus for grandstanding DA's. Will we start hearing "You know things are different now after V.T. instead of things are different after 911.

There is more (or less) to this story than is being reported

It would be interesting to find out of the "campus in question" is anything like the Virginia Commonwealth University campus (which is BANNED for CHP under state code, but only as a trespass charge, not a firearms violation)..

Some of these college campuses as so sprawling that it's hard NOT be on some part of the campus within the city limits.

I do find it "HIGHLY DISTURBING" how hearsay can send someone to lockup based on a DA's agenda..

Just today, I was getting my hair cut OC'ing my SIG239.. My hair was exceeding an inch. I made some random comment and the hair cut lady replied, "Oh, you're with the Henrico Police" (one of the words of my comment had the same syllables as "police") and I VERY VERY quickly corrected the lady that I was not an officer, just a guy out on a Sunday... "Oh, no m'am, I said..."

Sometimes people HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, and when idiots start dialing 911 because they heard something wrong or took it out of context, it sucks for the poor sap with the gun!
 

AbNo

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Well, is there any chance that this guy can have his record cleared, possibly based on what would appear to be an almost, if not, malicious false police report?
 

Mike

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Apparently the guy was never released from mental health facility? I'd like to know what happenned in that process.



UPDATE: http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1182566414159940.xml&coll=1

SNIP

"Miller, 42, of the 3700 block of Green Street, was committed involuntarily for a mental evaluation after a 12:30 p.m. Tuesday incident in which Harrisburg police said they found him inside HACC's Cooper Union Building with a 9mm pistol.

Yesterday, Susquehanna Twp. police got warrants for Miller's arrest, charging him with simple assault by physical menace, theft of services and a wiretapping violation, said Police Chief Rob Martin."
 

AbNo

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Ok, THAT story pissed me off.

Neutral journalism, my arse.

They do a great job of painting this guy as
omhx9.jpg


Page two of this story (and by story, I mean fabrication)
Susquehanna Twp. police said they have been called numerous times about Miller by neighbors, some of whom said he would walk around outside wearing holstered handguns.

OCDO main page....
There are 2 issues that prevent it from being a "Gold Star" open carry state. First, you must have a permit to open carry in the city of Philadelphia and second, you must have a permit to open carry in a vehicle.

So basically, this guy's getting worked over by a student, the school, the police, the DA, his neighbors, and now a newspaper, ironically enough named "The Patriot-News" :cuss:

Is there a PCDL, like our VCDL? What about the GoA? Can they do anything to help?
 

Citizen

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Legba wrote:
Perhaps "commitment" means something else in PA....
Not taking exception to Legba. Just using it as an opportunity.

Its not what "commitment" means, its what it is a euphemism for:

The seizure and detention of a citizen without a warrant, indictment by grand jury,or trial.

You just get a "doctor" to very learnedly say someone is exhibiting such and such psycho-babble syndrome.

This is why the Soviets used psychiatry--aneasy way to lock up dissidents and then control them with drugsonce inside.

Beyond a short-term involuntary incarceration for the truly dangerous, there is no reason on earth why someone's Constitutional privileges and immunities should not apply. If he is insane, let the state prove it.

Foryears many have wondered if the day would comewhen people would be consideredinsane for wanting or having a gun.They were close. HB 2640 ishowthe inverse will beinstituted if we don't get it stopped.
 

Tomahawk

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Citizen wrote:
Foryears many have wondered if the day would comewhen people would be consideredinsane for wanting or having a gun.They were close. HB 2640 ishowthe inverse will beinstituted if we don't get it stopped.
In the UK it's "antisocial behaviour".
 
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