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Thread: OC in a BP Mart or other C Store that sells beer?

  1. #1
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    http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/law...s/op00-031.pdf

    OK, I read this opinion from TN AG's office. What does it mean? Specifically, can I run into the BP Mart to get a loaf of bread on the way home from work without removing my Rock Island M1911-A1 .45 ACP from my holster and locking it up in the trunk? They do sell beer there. I do not buy beer so that is not an issue.

    Why can they not just speak plain english in these opinions? It makes them look like they do not have a good handle on the language.

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    In TN it is only illegal to carry inside a building which holds a license to dispense liquor by the drink.

    Hence, you can legally carry:

    -Outside of a building inside which liquor is sold for consuption.

    -Inside of a business which only sells alchohol, but does not serve it for on-site consumption.

    -Inside of a building which only serves beer, but not liquor (since 'beer' is not viewed as alcohol, in TN). Take note, however, that malt liquor and wine-coolers are considered 'alcohol'.

    So, yes, you can carry inside quickie-marts, gas-stations, Wal-Mart, etc... since they do not sell for on-site consumption. You can even carry inside a liquor store (as long as there is no bar).

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    That is what I thought but just wanted to be sure. I still do not understand what is so wrong about the AG using plain english.

    Thanks for the quick reply...

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Well, that opinion is concerning the old law that said you could not carry into a place where alcoholic beverages are served or sold. The new law ....

    39-17-1305
    (a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.
    Thus opinion 00-031 is null because the law that the AG authored the opinion on has been repealed and replaced.


    Molon, I hate very much to disagree but the statute refers to...
    57-5-101
    (b) For purposes of this title, “beer” means beer, ale or other malt beverages, or any other beverages having an alcoholic content of not more than five percent (5%) by weight, except wine as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(20); provided, however, that no more than forty-nine percent (49%) of the overall alcoholic content of such beverage may be derived from the addition of flavors and other nonbeverage ingredients containing alcohol.

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    kingfish wrote:
    Molon, I hate very much to disagree but the statute refers to...
    57-5-101
    (b) For purposes of this title, “beer” means beer, ale or other malt beverages, or any other beverages having an alcoholic content of not more than five percent (5%) by weight, except wine as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(20); provided, however, that no more than forty-nine percent (49%) of the overall alcoholic content of such beverage may be derived from the addition of flavors and other nonbeverage ingredients containing alcohol.
    I did not do very in chemistry and never really liked percentages... BUT,

    Last evening I was at the MAPCO at Yale and Covington Pike while OCing with my Rock Island Armory M1911-A1 (condition 1) in a BlackHawk holster and when I finished refiling my fountain Coke, I turned around to the smile of a Shelby County Deputy who said, "Nice rig." I said thanks and he went about his business.

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    kingfish wrote:
    Well, that opinion is concerning the old law that said you could not carry into a place where alcoholic beverages are served or sold. The new law ....

    39-17-1305
    (a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.
    Thus opinion 00-031 is null because the law that the AG authored the opinion on has been repealed and replaced.


    Molon, I hate very much to disagree but the statute refers to...
    57-5-101
    (b) For purposes of this title, “beer” means beer, ale or other malt beverages, or any other beverages having an alcoholic content of not more than five percent (5%) by weight, except wine as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(20); provided, however, that no more than forty-nine percent (49%) of the overall alcoholic content of such beverage may be derived from the addition of flavors and other nonbeverage ingredients containing alcohol.
    Don't feel bad about disagreeing with me... it's in style :celebrate

    I was wrong... I should have re-checked the statute. Either they changed that section to include beer since I last looked (last year), or I misread it...

    I appreciate the correction!

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    So the consensus is that it's OK to carry in a business that sells alcohol as long as it's not for on site consumption, correct?

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    BigBoostDSM wrote:
    So the consensus is that it's OK to carry in a business that sells alcohol as long as it's not for on site consumption, correct?
    That is correct.

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    BigBoostDSM wrote:
    So the consensus is that it's OK to carry in a business that sells alcohol as long as it's not for on site consumption, correct?
    even then, out of sight out of mind, right?

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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    BigBoostDSM wrote:
    So the consensus is that it's OK to carry in a business that sells alcohol as long as it's not for on site consumption, correct?
    even then, out of sight out of mind, right?
    </rant on>
    Uh...NO. It is not against any law to carry where alcohol is SOLD and not SERVED, so why would you not open carry? If you are advocating intentionally carrying where it is off limits (thus recommending committing a crime) then I would challenge you on that. No one HAS to go to Applebees for lunch. There is a great Gyro place right across the street that does not serve liqueur.

    It is our God given right to carry arms to defend ourselves, it is also our responsibility to not get arrested or convicted of a weapons charge (could even be a felony) just because we disagree with the laws.

    You don't like the laws...CHANGE THEM. Do NOT recommend people put themselves at risk of never being able to carry a gun again just because you choose to become a criminal.
    </rant off>

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    kingfish wrote:
    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    BigBoostDSM wrote:
    So the consensus is that it's OK to carry in a business that sells alcohol as long as it's not for on site consumption, correct?
    even then, out of sight out of mind, right?
    </rant on>
    Uh...NO. It is not against any law to carry where alcohol is SOLD and not SERVED, so why would you not open carry? If you are advocating intentionally carrying where it is off limits (thus recommending committing a crime) then I would challenge you on that. No one HAS to go to Applebees for lunch. There is a great Gyro place right across the street that does not serve liqueur.

    It is our God given right to carry arms to defend ourselves, it is also our responsibility to not get arrested or convicted of a weapons charge (could even be a felony) just because we disagree with the laws.

    You don't like the laws...CHANGE THEM. Do NOT recommend people put themselves at risk of never being able to carry a gun again just because you choose to become a criminal.
    </rant off>
    As far as the law is concerned, I'm a KY CCDW permit holder & keep on top of KY's laws as they're recipritory w/a number of states including TN. So, unless I see a sign (or entering a state or federal bulding) it stays concieled(sp).

    If I do see a sign, I'll go somewhere else. I'll spend my money @ places that support my rights.

    When I go to Applebee's (or other sit down place w/a bar area), I sit anywhere except in the bar area. If the sheep don't want me there, I'll be more than happy to leave when asked the first time and spend my money somewhere else. If they feel the need to call the police, I'll explain the situation to LE as well. (ie: I'm a KY CCDW permit holder, KY's laws are recipritory w/TN, there was no sign, I'm sorry I'll leave)

    In any event, if I'm carrying concieled, and somebody else sees it, I wasn't carrying concieled was I?

    If you get caught carrying in a no-carry zone you're a criminal. If you're carrying in a no carry zone and have to take out a bad guy to save a bunch of sheep, you're a hero. I don't get it.

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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    As far as the law is concerned, I'm a KY CCDW permit holder & keep on top of KY's laws as they're recipritory w/a number of states including TN.
    You are unfortunately very mistaken on this point. KY's laws are NOT reciprocal to TN. TN honors your permit, you still must follow TN law.

    I sit anywhere except in the bar area.
    Does not matter. If you bothered to look at TN law you would see the statute says:

    39-17-1305
    "It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in §57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in §57-3-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.


    I'll explain the situation to LE as well. (ie: I'm a KY CCDW permit holder, KY's laws are recipritory w/TN, there was no sign, I'm sorry I'll leave)
    "I am so sorry officer that I intentionally committed a Class A Misdemeanor (worst you can get and not be a felon) because I just can't get enough of Applebee's coconut shrimp."


    In any event, if I'm carrying concieled, and somebody else sees it, I wasn't carrying concieled was I?
    Tennessee law makes no distinction between open and concealed.

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    http://state.tn.us/safety/handgun/reciprocity.htm

    Halfway down the page. TN is in a recipritory agreement with KY, thus they honor the permit & the laws of KY's CCDW permit & KY honors TN's permit & laws.


    *edit - besides, if I want coconut shrimp, I'll go to Red Lobster

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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    http://state.tn.us/safety/handgun/reciprocity.htm

    Halfway down the page. TN is in a recipritory agreement with KY, thus they honor the permit & the laws of KY's CCDW permit & KY honors TN's permit & laws.


    *edit - besides, if I want coconut shrimp, I'll go to Red Lobster
    Actually, it says they recognize thePERMIT and your right to carry based on that permit. It says nothing about following the other states laws. In all circumstances, you must follow the laws of the jurisdiction you are in.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    I don't post here very much on OC.org, but fightglock you are breaking the law if you go into an establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises while carrying a firearm.

    And I am pretty sure OC.org does not condone such actions and if you are doing said action, you should keep it to yourself. If for some reason the police are called because of your actions, they might let you "leave on your own", howevermore than likely you would be arrested.:shock:

    Yes, it is a travesty that such laws are made in the restriction of 2nd!



    GUNS

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    >>fightglock you are breaking the law if you go into an establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises while carrying a firearm.<<

    not in KY, where, if more than 50% of sales comes from food service (ie: applebee's, o'charlie's, etc). Let's see, unless I'm mistaken (and if I am I'll man up and admit I'm wrong) VA allows carry inside similar establishments only if open carrying (no CC stuff) & away from the bar area.

    >>And I am pretty sure OC.org does not condone such actions and if you are doing said action, you should keep it to yourself.<<

    that's why I don't open carry.

    >>If for some reason the police are called because of your actions, they might let you "leave on your own", howevermore than likely you would be arrested.<<

    Guess how many times I've been pulled over and had to declare a weapon in my vehicle? None.

    How many times have I been asked to leave an establishment? None.

    How many times I've been asked to leave a street corner I've been loitering on? None.

    I'm law abiding & carry myself as such, therefore I have no problems w/LE, the general public, or business owners.

    Seems likethere's a few here thatthink that because a weapon's concealed that it's automatically evil & the person carrying concealed is a bad guy. If one's open carrying they're good dudes & can go where they want to because the law says so.

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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    >>fightglock you are breaking the law if you go into an establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises while carrying a firearm.<<

    not in KY
    But yes in Tennesse, which is the point of this thread: when a KY licensee is carrying in TN, he has to abide by TN laws. The license is reciprocal. The laws are not.


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    Mr. FightingGlock, I think you should check out http://www.defensivecarry.com . They are specifically for concealed carry and are as anti open carry and ignorant (not stupid, just ignorant) as you are. I think you would do very well there.

    You are never going to convince anyone here that Tennessee (or any other state) laws are superseded from another state.

    To use an analogy...because I have a drivers license from Tennessee where the speed limit is 70mph on the interstate, when I travel to a state where the speed limit is 55mph that I just tell the officer that his state accepts my Tennessee drivers license and that means the laws in his state do not apply to me..Silly huh?

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    kingfish wrote:
    Mr. FightingGlock, I think you should check out http://www.defensivecarry.com . They are specifically for concealed carry and are as anti open carry and ignorant (not stupid, just ignorant) as you are. I think you would do very well there.

    You are never going to convince anyone here that Tennessee (or any other state) laws are superseded from another state.

    To use an analogy...because I have a drivers license from Tennessee where the speed limit is 70mph on the interstate, when I travel to a state where the speed limit is 55mph that I just tell the officer that his state accepts my Tennessee drivers license and that means the laws in his state do not apply to me..Silly huh?
    Well typed. I think that I will try that excuse if I am pulled over for speeding just to see the expression on the PoPo's face.

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    >>To use an analogy...because I have a drivers license from Tennessee where the speed limit is 70mph on the interstate, when I travel to a state where the speed limit is 55mph that I just tell the officer that his state accepts my Tennessee drivers license and that means the laws in his state do not apply to me..Silly huh?<<

    not a very good analogy, but we've not see eye to eye a whole lot, so far.

    See, that analogy wouldn't fit our discussion because speed limits are posted & not gun free zones are.

    A better analogy may be right turns on red. It's not always posted & different states have different laws in their driver's license manuals. If you get stopped & explain to the officer (carrying yourself respectably & law abiding) that in your state/city/town the law is different for unposted intersections, then, chances are, you'll just get a warning (just make sure you don't get caught again, they'll remember they gave you the actual law, eh).

    >>You are never going to convince anyone here that Tennessee (or any other state) laws are superseded from another state.<<

    I'm not trying to. My reply may have been taken as I'm eluding to that, however, to clarify, reciprocity does open the door for a lot of leverage in your favor (again, if you're carrying yourself right).

    >>Mr. FightingGlock, I think you should check out http://www.defensivecarry.com . They are specifically for concealed carry and are as anti open carry and ignorant (not stupid, just ignorant) as you are. I think you would do very well there.<<

    I'm not against open carrying, hey different strokes for different folks, right? I'm not ignorant of those that open carry, either.

    If you read what was construed as ignorant, you'll see I said, "a few here," and wasn't generalizing the board as a whole. If I was ignorant, I would have said, "this board thinks persons that cc are criminals," or to that effect.

    and some off-topic ramblings (some may agree, some may not) - IMHO concealed carry is, a better option than open carry. If a bad guy sees a victim, he sees a victim. If the bad guy sees the victim has a weapon, that's a weapon the bad guy can get from the victim. I choose topresent myselfso I'm not to be seen as a (potential) victim, yet have a (concealed) weapon in the eventsome shitbag decides to hurt me or somebody I care about. It doesn't matter if one open carries or carries concealed, we *ALL* (open or concealed) have the moral obligation to stop shitbags if they threaten us (or loved ones) with grave bodily harm or death.

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    T.C.A. § 39-17-1351(r)(1) says...

    A facially valid handgun permit, firearms permit, weapons permit or license issued by another state shall be valid in this state according to its terms and shall be treated as if it is a handgun permit issued by this state; provided, however, the provisions of this subsection (r) shall not be construed to authorize the holder of any out-of-state permit or license to carry, in this state, any firearm or weapon other than a handgun. (Emphasis added)



    So...if you are to treat and out-of-state permit as one issued by Tennessee....then to me you would obviously have to conform to TN law.


    I do hope TN passes the "less than 50% from alcohol" or similar statute someday.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Fallguy wrote:
    I do hope TN passes the "less than 50% from alcohol" or similar statute someday.
    +1

    looks like from now on, TN doesn't get any revenue from me @ their sit down resturaunts

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    As my sister says (she is a former Assistant District Attorney General), the law is only a good as the officer trying to interpret it.

    This makes me very uneasy.



    And, 100% legal to open carry and only illegal in a place that sells alcohol by the drink for consumption on the premisis.

    My sister had to inform a group of officers one day when they called her office over open carry in a restaurant. No alcohol there either.

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