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Thread: First LEO encounter at Double D's

  1. #1
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    Long story short? Nothing much to tell... Short story long?

    I just had my first LEO encounter about 15 mins ago at Dunkin Donuts on Duke (across from the Giant supermarket)... I guess I was asking for it since I didn't realize it was still open unitl I saw the police cruiser in front of me turn into the parking lot, and had a hankering for a sweet donut.

    I was wearing my Serpa with shirt tucked so it was easily OC, and I guess I could have CC'ed but once I pulled into the parking lot I saw another 2 cruisers and 1 SUV. I didn't want to print and have 4 cops asking me for my CHP.

    Nobody else was there, and this DD closes after midnight so you have to use the walkup window, so upon walking to the building, I asked the first officer standing outside if it was still open. He said yup, then his eyes grew large and immediately focused on my side.

    "Hey, where do you work?"

    "Who me?"

    "Yeah."

    "I'm at the Patent Office right down the street."

    "As an officer?"

    "No, as an examiner."

    I didn't continue after that since he wasn't being a nice guy, and just walked up to the window. While waiting for the guy to get to the window...

    "Is that loaded?"

    "Yup."

    "You know that's illegal in Alexandria city limits..."

    "Actually, open carry is legal in the entire state of Virginia."

    "Well you should conceal it."

    "I have my chp anyways."

    "Then conceal it."

    I shrugged, but didn't CC. More waiting, and then in order to diffuse things, I asked what the starting salary for APD was, and he said about 43k. I told him I was thinking about a switch in careers and asked if VSP was paid more, they said probably not, but if you're in NoVA you get another 25% locality pay. He started talking about his wife to the other guy, and then they both got in their cars and drove to the other two officers who were on the other side of the parking lot.

    I got my donut and then left, nobody followed me, and I was never asked for ID or my CHP or anything else. *shrug* The second guy at the window never said a word to me but was friendly after seeing me wait so long, before he left, he walked up and knocked loudly on the window and when I said, "The guy already saw me, he's getting the donut." he smiled and left.

    The guy was in the SUV marked 2762, but I never got his name or badge #. I left with mixed feelings because I thought APD had their heads on straight concerning OC/CC but I guess not. Well it ended without incident, and I'm enjoying my donut.

    I almost said, "Slow night eh? 4 cars for a donut run?" but bit my tongue. > ) No need to be an ass.
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    Long story short? Nothing much to tell... Short story long?

    I just had my first LEO encounter about 15 mins ago at Dunkin Donuts on Duke (across from the Giant supermarket)... I guess I was asking for it since I didn't realize it was still open unitl I saw the police cruiser in front of me turn into the parking lot, and had a hankering for a sweet donut.

    I was wearing my Serpa with shirt tucked so it was easily OC, and I guess I could have CC'ed but once I pulled into the parking lot I saw another 2 cruisers and 1 SUV. I didn't want to print and have 4 cops asking me for my CHP.

    Nobody else was there, and this DD closes after midnight so you have to use the walkup window, so upon walking to the building, I asked the first officer standing outside if it was still open. He said yup, then his eyes grew large and immediately focused on my side.

    "Hey, where do you work?"

    "Who me?"

    "Yeah."

    "I'm at the Patent Office right down the street."

    "As an officer?"

    "No, as an examiner."

    I didn't continue after that since he wasn't being a nice guy, and just walked up to the window. While waiting for the guy to get to the window...

    "Is that loaded?"

    "Yup."

    "You know that's illegal in Alexandria city limits..."

    "Actually, open carry is legal in the entire state of Virginia."

    "Well you should conceal it."

    "I have my chp anyways."

    "Then conceal it."

    I shrugged, but didn't CC. More waiting, and then in order to diffuse things, I asked what the starting salary for APD was, and he said about 43k. I told him I was thinking about a switch in careers and asked if VSP was paid more, they said probably not, but if you're in NoVA you get another 25% locality pay. He started talking about his wife to the other guy, and then they both got in their cars and drove to the other two officers who were on the other side of the parking lot.

    I got my donut and then left, nobody followed me, and I was never asked for ID or my CHP or anything else. *shrug* The second guy at the window never said a word to me but was friendly after seeing me wait so long, before he left, he walked up and knocked loudly on the window and when I said, "The guy already saw me, he's getting the donut." he smiled and left.

    The guy was in the SUV marked 2762, but I never got his name or badge #. I left with mixed feelings because I thought APD had their heads on straight concerning OC/CC but I guess not. Well it ended without incident, and I'm enjoying my donut.

    I almost said, "Slow night eh? 4 cars for a donut run?" but bit my tongue. > ) No need to be an ass.
    .....mmmmm donuts.....first MRE's then donuts? I just got home from work and wanted to go to bed, but i am now considering driving to the krispy kreme on Rt.1 to get some.....


    happy carrying,


    jason

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    KodiakISGOOD wrote:
    I just got home from work and wanted to go to bed, but i am now considering driving to the krispy kreme on Rt.1 to get some.....
    I've NEVER been to a Krispy Kreme. I've heard their better than DD's, but honestly? I just can't bring myself to step into one... I guess that's 26 years in the Jers for you. I'm hooked on the Double D's.
    -Unrequited

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    I can see why you'd have mixed feelings. Your experience went very well in many ways, but I believe there is still a problem. We now have 5 recent reports in Alexandria of various degrees of ignorance of the law. While your experience is perhaps the "best" as far as officer behavior is concerned, it is clear that many Alexandria officers either do not know the law or are intentionally misquoting the law to determine if you do know the law before proceeding.

    In an earlier thread, I got the impression Mike didn't believe these reports because he has carried in Alexandria without incident. I am curious what Mike thinks now, and what he thinks should be done.

    Would a courtesy call from Philip Van Cleave or BobCav or Mike (or all three?) be in order, just to make sure Alexandria doesn't get itself in a lot of trouble? Otherwise, trouble is coming (not all LEO encounters will be this non-chalant), and it may be unpleasant for the open carrier.

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    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    Would a courtesy call from Philip Van Cleave or BobCav or Mike (or all three?) be in order, just to make sure Alexandria doesn't get itself in a lot of trouble? Otherwise, trouble is coming (not all LEO encounters will be this non-chalant), and it may be unpleasant for the open carrier.
    Several of us NoVA types have discussed speaking at the city council meeting next month.

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    unrequited wrote:
    "You know that's illegal in Alexandria city limits..."

    "Actually, open carry is legal in the entire state of Virginia."
    Did anyone notice that it is illegal was dropped after it was stated. This demonstrates that APD knows it is not illegal, and are trying to pressure, intimidate,and harasspeople into not OC'ing.

    I bet if they told people it was illegal to state your opinion, or tell people they cannot wear kippoton the same street, the media would be all over it.

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    Oh Man!! That was your chance to ask him to show you the code section so we all could know where this magical code exists.

    Why does ALEX keep thinking it is illegal???? What are they being told?

    It was important enoughto himto actually talk to youabout it being illegal. But not important enough or "possible" to charge you for a crime.



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    unrequited wrote:
    "Hey, where do you work?"

    "Who me?"

    "Yeah."

    "I'm at the Patent Office right down the street."

    "As an officer?"

    "No, as an examiner."
    Which TC and AU?

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    unrequited wrote:
    I've NEVER been to a Krispy Kreme. I've heard their better than DD's, but honestly? I just can't bring myself to step into one... I guess that's 26 years in the Jers for you. I'm hooked on the Double D's.
    The KK vs DD is like the caliber arguments and Glock vs whatever debates. KKs are the absolute best right off the line. They are hot and gooey and the glaze hasn't set -- mmm delish.
    ---

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    I can see I'm going to have to visit downtown A-town more often.

    This is getting rediculous.



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    possumboy wrote:
    Did anyone notice that it is illegal was dropped after it was stated. This demonstrates that APD knows it is not illegal, and are trying to pressure, intimidate,and harasspeople into not OC'ing...
    My thoughts exactly. All in all, a confusing encounter.After his relunctance to persue the proposedly "illegal" OC, he then tells you "then conceal it"..
    Now we have a demand (? not sure the tone when he said that, but it looks like a command to me)
    I know this is Monday morning quarterback, but "under what authority do you demand I do that?" would have been a good response.
    At least then we would know, from his answer if he really thinks the permit only allows CC or if it is just his opinion he is basing his demand on.... I suspect the latter.
    And then he drops interest in that also, after you failed to comply with his demand...?

    Seems to be a clear case of bully cop. If he was sure he was correct he would have arrested you.

    All in all, a confusing encounter but at least it is uneventful. Due in no small part to the way in which unrequited handled himself, calm, cool, and probably the best tactic, deflecting the issue by changing the subject



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    I actually interpreted the "Well you should conceal it" as a ploy for a potential citation. The cop knew very well he needed a permit to conceal, but was probably hoping he didn't know that. If someone unknowing of the law and without a CHP listened to his instructions, he'd then be able to take action. All in all, very bad for from the APD.

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    I agree that the officer was stating his opinion rather than fact, but I think unrequited handled it well. Just the fact that you rolled into a DD loaded with Alexandria cops is proof enough you got brass ones. DD is their turf!

    BTW, I grew up in Jersey, but I never heard it called "The Jers" before...that's pretty funny.

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    nickerj1 wrote:
    Which TC and AU?
    2182 for the next week or two... I gave my notice because I want to find a different line of work. I might sit on the other side of the desk for awhile and try to get a firm to pay my way through law school.
    -Unrequited

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    I agree that the officer was stating his opinion rather than fact, but I think unrequited handled it well. Just the fact that you rolled into a DD loaded with Alexandria cops is proof enough you got brass ones. DD is their turf!

    BTW, I grew up in Jersey, but I never heard it called "The Jers" before...that's pretty funny.
    Heh, most of the people who are complimenting my calm, collected nature are probably mistaking it for 4:30am sleepy-ness after driving home from my g/f's. I wish I had my wits about me to engage in a little friendly 2A debate and calling him out on his mis-information. Also, since the street was completely dead besides me and the cop which pulled into the parking lot before me, upon seeing the 4 police vehicles, I figured if I just turned around I'd look suspiscious, plus I had nothing to hide. I did however think twice about untucking my shirt before I got out of the car, but again didn't want to print and then get jumped by 4 guys before getting a chance to talk.

    Oh, the Jers? Heh, short for "Dirty Jers". Kind of a self-empowerment thing 'cause that's what all of my non-NJ friends used to call NJ to mock me.
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    nickerj1 wrote:
    Which TC and AU?
    2182 for the next week or two... I gave my notice because I want to find a different line of work. I might sit on the other side of the desk for awhile and try to get a firm to pay my way through law school.
    I'll be in 2143 as soon as I get out of this silly Academy.

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    was the officer black? white? mixed? just curious

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    swatpro911 wrote:
    was the officer black? white? mixed? just curious
    green with pink polka dots

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    swatpro911 wrote:
    was the officer black? white? mixed?* just curious
    Not nice guy white, nice guy black, two other officers in cars never got out.
    -Unrequited

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    I'll be penning a letter this week to the Chief and restating what Mike has already written. I don't like that OC'ers are being hassled this much. This is nothing new for either side unless they've been somehow directed to discourage OC. For their sake, I truly hope that is not the case.



  21. #21
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    BobCav wrote:
    This is nothing new for either side unless they've been somehow directed to discourage OC. For their sake, I truly hope that is not the case.
    Actually, for the officer's sake, I hope it is the case. Management is a whole different story...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Agreed. I meant "their" referring to the management. Thanks roscoe

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    unrequited wrote:
    "You know that's illegal in Alexandria city limits..."

    "Actually, open carry is legal in the entire state of

    I shrugged, but didn't CC. ...and then they both got in their cars and drove to the other two officers who were on the other side of the parking lot.

    I got my donut and then left, nobody followed me...
    Sounds to me like they were BSing you, they KNEW they were BSing you, and they knew they'd be in a world of {poopoo} if they pushed the issue.

    Me thinks the VCDL, GoA, and maybe a few of us here need to edumacate some APD folks out there that we're taking notice.

    And maybe see about getting some folks from outside Alexandria to say "What the hell are you guys doing? No biscuit for you!"
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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