Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
I think we owe him more than lunch. Maybe a new hat...(just kidding)
I think we owe him more than lunch. Maybe a new hat...(just kidding)
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At gunpoint and in cuffs in downtown Norfolk
- Thread starter danbus
- Start date
denwego
Regular Member
imported post
I can't believe how you manage to keep your cool after all the crap you've gotten for OCing, Danbus. It's a blight on America that you get singled out for your race while carrying... I suppose people who are comfortable with robbing someone of one constitutional right is comfortable with robbing someone of all of them. My hat's off to you, sir!
I can't believe how you manage to keep your cool after all the crap you've gotten for OCing, Danbus. It's a blight on America that you get singled out for your race while carrying... I suppose people who are comfortable with robbing someone of one constitutional right is comfortable with robbing someone of all of them. My hat's off to you, sir!
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Strangely I can imagine Danbus is getting used to the harrassment. Not to say he enjoys it, but he is getting experienced at handling these things. I've noticed in myself that I'm less jittery about LEO encounters after Tonys and Burke Lake. He is a salty hand at this point, we should be asking him what to do in these encounters.
Strangely I can imagine Danbus is getting used to the harrassment. Not to say he enjoys it, but he is getting experienced at handling these things. I've noticed in myself that I'm less jittery about LEO encounters after Tonys and Burke Lake. He is a salty hand at this point, we should be asking him what to do in these encounters.
Bulldog1967
Regular Member
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Danbus,
While we have never met in person, I do look forward to that day. Clearly, you are engaged in a civil rights battle, that those of us who are "unmistakably white" are not. But in this cause you are not alone. While color may matter to the police, I have not met anyone from this forum that holds that view. We here are all brothers in arms. You have more support than you know.
As for this situation, because they actually handcuffed you, you are in the unique position of have been the subject of a false arrest. The act was willful as both officers KNEW in advance that OC was legal. While they might reasonably have conducted a "Terry" stop (you were sitting outside a bank after all), they did not have the right to actually arrest and handcuff you for that purpose. A civil suit against the police department and the two Officers in this case would be almost a slam dunk.
You probably could find a lawyer that would take the case on contingency, so the cost to you would only be the time to pursue the matter. Check with the bank and see if their ATM camera caught the action and also see if the police had cameras and voice recorders in their cars. Start by filing the complaint with the police WITH a FOIA for any recordings (video or audio) to stop them from deleting any that exist. Also contact your local FBI office and file a complaint with them for a color of office violation, and have them seize any recordings. That will really get them to think about what they are doing.
I sincerely hope you drive these guys into the ground like tent pegs. But remember, you are not alone. Many of us are prepared to stand ground with you anytime you need us. Just tell us when and where to show up.
Regards
EDIT: Bulldog is correct. In Virginia only one party is required to consent to a recording, and obviously that person can be the person doing the recording if he/she is also being recorded.
Danbus,
While we have never met in person, I do look forward to that day. Clearly, you are engaged in a civil rights battle, that those of us who are "unmistakably white" are not. But in this cause you are not alone. While color may matter to the police, I have not met anyone from this forum that holds that view. We here are all brothers in arms. You have more support than you know.
As for this situation, because they actually handcuffed you, you are in the unique position of have been the subject of a false arrest. The act was willful as both officers KNEW in advance that OC was legal. While they might reasonably have conducted a "Terry" stop (you were sitting outside a bank after all), they did not have the right to actually arrest and handcuff you for that purpose. A civil suit against the police department and the two Officers in this case would be almost a slam dunk.
You probably could find a lawyer that would take the case on contingency, so the cost to you would only be the time to pursue the matter. Check with the bank and see if their ATM camera caught the action and also see if the police had cameras and voice recorders in their cars. Start by filing the complaint with the police WITH a FOIA for any recordings (video or audio) to stop them from deleting any that exist. Also contact your local FBI office and file a complaint with them for a color of office violation, and have them seize any recordings. That will really get them to think about what they are doing.
I sincerely hope you drive these guys into the ground like tent pegs. But remember, you are not alone. Many of us are prepared to stand ground with you anytime you need us. Just tell us when and where to show up.
Regards
EDIT: Bulldog is correct. In Virginia only one party is required to consent to a recording, and obviously that person can be the person doing the recording if he/she is also being recorded.
TEX1N
Regular Member
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Hawkflyer wrote:
Hey how come the brother always gets it first in the movies? Whazzap with that?
Hawkflyer wrote:
hehehe....you said "brothers"...
Hey how come the brother always gets it first in the movies? Whazzap with that?
Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
imported post
Kevin108 wrote:
Not in PA
Kevin108 wrote:
Not in PA
cs9c1
Regular Member
imported post
Kevin108 wrote:
Kevin108 wrote:
In VA only one side needs to know.
OC-Glock19
Founder's Club Member
mattjohnston87
Regular Member
imported post
para_org wrote:
But it also has a speaker with it!
:lol:
para_org wrote:
But it also has a speaker with it!
:lol:
ckpolaris
New member
imported post
Danbus-
Sorry to hear about your latest encounter with the people entrusted by law abiding citizens to not only protect us said citzens, but to know the laws they are sworn to protect.
I agree that the cops in question took it way to far, and that something should be done in the way of educating these people.
What is sad though, is that stories like this:
"Norfolk standoff over as man with gun surrenders"
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=127485&ran=134658
does not help our cause, and probably puts the cops in a higher mode of paranoia regarding legal oc. Not to mention the numurous stories involving gun shootings seen everyday.
I'm not saying dont oc. I oc when ever I have the chance. Just trying to shed a different light on the matter. Everday occurances do affect how situations turn out. Who knows, maybe a week ago, this incident (with Danbus) would have never happened...
Danbus-
Sorry to hear about your latest encounter with the people entrusted by law abiding citizens to not only protect us said citzens, but to know the laws they are sworn to protect.
I agree that the cops in question took it way to far, and that something should be done in the way of educating these people.
What is sad though, is that stories like this:
"Norfolk standoff over as man with gun surrenders"
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=127485&ran=134658
does not help our cause, and probably puts the cops in a higher mode of paranoia regarding legal oc. Not to mention the numurous stories involving gun shootings seen everyday.
I'm not saying dont oc. I oc when ever I have the chance. Just trying to shed a different light on the matter. Everday occurances do affect how situations turn out. Who knows, maybe a week ago, this incident (with Danbus) would have never happened...
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
ckpolaris wrote:
I am certain you must be aware of the drastic differences between this incident and Danbus's situation. This guy was walking around waiving the gun at people. Danbus was quietly sitting in his car, minding his own business, with a holstered firearm. People had to go out of their way to even see the weapon. There is a big difference, and the police in Danbus's case massively over reacted.
Had his friend from the bank simply told the police that he was their to pick them up from work, instead of hiding around the corner a block away, this might have changed the entire situation.
Regards
ckpolaris wrote:
I am certain you must be aware of the drastic differences between this incident and Danbus's situation. This guy was walking around waiving the gun at people. Danbus was quietly sitting in his car, minding his own business, with a holstered firearm. People had to go out of their way to even see the weapon. There is a big difference, and the police in Danbus's case massively over reacted.
Had his friend from the bank simply told the police that he was their to pick them up from work, instead of hiding around the corner a block away, this might have changed the entire situation.
Regards
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Tomahawk wrote:
Nice thought, but I 'm guessing he wouldn't like your taste in hats.:lol:
Regards
Tomahawk wrote:
Nice thought, but I 'm guessing he wouldn't like your taste in hats.:lol:
Regards
danbus
Regular Member
imported post
Hawkflyer wrote:
1. I was standing outside of my car, next to a wall (it was too hot to sit in the car, and I wanted to feel the breeze on my face).
2. I asked my friend to wait by the car as soon as they came out.
I shall pick up my friend again on Monday at the same time, doing the same thing. But before I do that, I will drop by the Norfolk Police Admin office and file a complaint there.
Hawkflyer wrote:
1. I was standing outside of my car, next to a wall (it was too hot to sit in the car, and I wanted to feel the breeze on my face).
2. I asked my friend to wait by the car as soon as they came out.
I shall pick up my friend again on Monday at the same time, doing the same thing. But before I do that, I will drop by the Norfolk Police Admin office and file a complaint there.
openryan
State Researcher
imported post
danbus wrote:
danbus wrote:
Maybe take off the BMWAG hat?
ckpolaris
New member
imported post
danbus wrote:
I'm not sure where I accused Danbus of doing wrong. I was trying to point out specific incidents that have happened in norfolk recently, that would somewhat excuse why they were acting they way they were.
Like I said before, I AGREE with everything people here have said about this incident. The cops, as well as the security guards were wrong.
And of course I know that the two incidents were completely different. But how is a cop to know that?
danbus wrote:
I'm not sure where I accused Danbus of doing wrong. I was trying to point out specific incidents that have happened in norfolk recently, that would somewhat excuse why they were acting they way they were.
Like I said before, I AGREE with everything people here have said about this incident. The cops, as well as the security guards were wrong.
And of course I know that the two incidents were completely different. But how is a cop to know that?
leprechaun117
Regular Member
imported post
openryan wrote:
openryan wrote:
Idon't see that happening
cato
Newbie
imported post
ckpolaris wrote:
By being paid to know the law and follow the constitution; develop reasonable suspicion to investigate/detain lawfullyor probable cause to arrest/cite and knowing the elements of the crime and be able to articulate them.
One thing I learned early in my career is not to rush into a conflict/citizen contact unless exigent circumstances dictate. Minus articulable facts, observation and consensual contact is all we have legally.
ckpolaris wrote:
By being paid to know the law and follow the constitution; develop reasonable suspicion to investigate/detain lawfullyor probable cause to arrest/cite and knowing the elements of the crime and be able to articulate them.
One thing I learned early in my career is not to rush into a conflict/citizen contact unless exigent circumstances dictate. Minus articulable facts, observation and consensual contact is all we have legally.