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Going to the Movies or Malls in Northern VA

Diesel23

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, Virginia, USA
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I am new to the site and this is my first post. I just got my CHP about 1 month ago. I haven't gotten my first firearm yet because the gun fund is not complete but will be soon. I am so glad that there are sites like this so a newbie like me can learn and then in the future will be able to help other newbies.

I have a question about Malls and going to the Movie Theatre...

The Malls I am talking about would be Potomac Mills, Springfield, Manassas Mall etc. Movie Theatres would be like AMC, Centerville Multiplex, etc.

I have read somewhere on the forums that at these locations you cannot Carry Firearms so does that mean we can't carry Concealed? If you decide to carry CC and are caught what can happen? Obviously I am new and just want to make sure I understand what you can and cannot do so I do not break the law.

If you cannot carry your firearm at these locations can you leave the firearm in your car while at the mall or movies?



Thanks!
 

LEO 229

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Welcome to the board!!

If you CC.. nobody will ever know but you unless you let it show.

Technically... you could be considered as trespassing for violating the posted firearm ban at the mall. It is highly unlikely that it will even happen. Security could show up if a shopper was to report you. Then security would show you to the door.

You can lock your gun up in your car. I would highly encourage you to ALWAYS lock it in a secure container or with a cable lock affixedto the vehicle. If someone does break in.. you do not want them to easily walk off with it.

There are some gun locker sites listed in this board.I am confident someone will post them for you.

I suggest key or mechanical push button. I do not care for battery operated locks. It would suck to have the battery fail when you really need access to your gun.

Here are a few that would interest me. Not that they are the best price.. shop around the Internet before you buy.

http://citywidesecurity.stores.yahoo.net/amsecpistolbox.html

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=282585
 

ParaWarthog

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LEO, thanks for those links! That second locking gun box was CHEAP, and I've been looking for something compact and cheap to cover me under the Federal Peacable Journey Act while traveling. Good find.
 

LEO 229

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It will not stop someone determined who has lots of time... but it will prevent the thief from just taking it.

That is a good price too...


I really like the Simplex locks myself as is on the first one. I have awall safe at home like that. Easy to get into at night in complete darkness.
 

Mike

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I have never agreed that failure to follow a rule of conduct in a mall or theater, posted well, or not, is criminal tresspassing or a violation of 18.2-308(O).

But nayway, malls tend to have a "tradgedy of the commons" aspect to them - rent-a-cops patrolling, reporting to their fimr, fired by mall management, which works for mall owners, and not the stores renting space inside.

Very poor incentive structure - best bet at most malls seems to be don;t ask don;t tell till you get to the door of the alcohol serving restaurant inside (in VA).
 

LEO 229

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The sign does not have to say actually anything about "trespassing"since it isimplied when you violatethe the prohibited item.

The sign is NOT A REQUEST and is a requirement for entry. Your failure to complymeans your not welcome to be there. If your not welcome... your trespassing.

Important Note... Notice that nowhere in the code section does it mention the requirement of the word "TRESPASSING" to be displayed on a sign. It is only mentionedin thesubject line.


http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/trespassing.html

3. (law) enter somebody else's land unlawfully: to go onto somebody else's land or enter somebody else's property without permission
4. (law) cause injury: to cause injury to the person, property, or rights of another



§ 18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so,

either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof

at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.
 

nickerj1

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LEO 229 wrote:
It will not stop someone determined who has lots of time... but it will prevent the thief from just taking it.

That is a good price too...


I really like the Simplex locks myself as is on the first one. I have awall safe at home like that. Easy to get into at night in complete darkness.

I'm looking into a way to secure my handgun in my vehicle for when I go into work (fed building). I have this holster.... http://www.desantisholster.com/01l.html

Would handcuffing it to the bottom of my seat while holstered be feasible? How hard is it to break a standard pair of cuffs? Do you recommend a special pair of cuffs? I know nothing about cuffs and need advice from a LEO. :D
 

LEO 229

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nickerj1 wrote:

I'm looking into a way to secure my handgun in my vehicle for when I go into work (fed building). I have this holster.... http://www.desantisholster.com/01l.html

Would handcuffing it to the bottom of my seat while holstered be feasible? How hard is it to break a standard pair of cuffs? Do you recommend a special pair of cuffs? I know nothing about cuffs and need advice from a LEO. :D
Cuffs have a universal key so anyone with a key would be able to get it.

I have a padlock with a long flexible cable. Iremove my mag, lock back the slide and run thecable through the mag opening and lock it to a part of my car. This secures both the upper and lower receiver. It is unloaded and cannot possibly be fired.


This is the cheap and easily portable way to go.

http://www.masterlock.com/cgi-bin/product_detail.pl?dir=/cgi-bin/class_search.pl?layer=layer1&displaynav=&parent_id=&sub_cat_id=B252&template=app
 

AbNo

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Now, the "No guns" sign = trespassing thing brings up an interesting point...

What if either

A> There is no sign on the entrance you used? Someone cited a mall with a No weapons sign on the main mall entrances, but no signs on the end cap stores (JC Pennies, in particular).

or

B> What if you HONESTLY did not see the sign? Say there was a crowd of people blocking the sign? Think large movie premier night.
 

Diesel23

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Thanks for everyone's reply. Leo229 I like the cheap safe that you posted. I will be getting that one for sure.

I hope everyone has a safe and fun 4th of July!
 

unrequited

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LEO 229 wrote:
I have a padlock with a long flexible cable. Iremove my mag, lock back the slide and run thecable through the mag opening and lock it to a part of my car. This secures both the upper and lower receiver. It is unloaded and cannot possibly be fired.

LEO229, have you read this article btw? Apparently that style lock (same as the ones that come with XD's and some police stations freebie) is easily broken with a pair of pliers (scroll down about half way):

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/the-lockdown-gun-locks-unsafe-at-any-caliber/



lockdown-gunlocks-02.jpg


lockdown-gunlocks-03.jpg
 

bohdi

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Centreville, Virginia, USA
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Be sure they don't do random searches at the federal property that you work on. The signs here say something about being not permitted on property - to include parking garages.....
 

BobCav

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unrequited wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I have a padlock with a long flexible cable. Iremove my mag, lock back the slide and run thecable through the mag opening and lock it to a part of my car. This secures both the upper and lower receiver. It is unloaded and cannot possibly be fired.

LEO229, have you read this article btw? Apparently that style lock (same as the ones that come with XD's and some police stations freebie) is easily broken with a pair of pliers (scroll down about half way):

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/the-lockdown-gun-locks-unsafe-at-any-caliber/



lockdown-gunlocks-02.jpg


lockdown-gunlocks-03.jpg

Yep! An unarmored cable can be cut. The armored cables (like this one) are merely bent and the armor itself cuts the cable. So much for product quality testing...
 

DrMark

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Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
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I often carry concealed in malls and theaters.

I've never seen a sign suggesting that I should not, but then, I don't look for such signs.

YMMV
 

LEO 229

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AbNo wrote:
Now, the "No guns" sign = trespassing thing brings up an interesting point...

What if either

A> There is no sign on the entrance you used? Someone cited a mall with a No weapons sign on the main mall entrances, but no signs on the end cap stores (JC Pennies, in particular).

or

B> What if you HONESTLY did not see the sign? Say there was a crowd of people blocking the sign? Think large movie premier night.

Good point... If you told me you did not see it and after checking.... the sign did not exist... I would let you go.Themallneeds to cover all entrances. ;)

Benefit of the doubt goes to you. If you claim you did not see it??? Case by case basis...
 

LEO 229

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unrequited wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I have a padlock with a long flexible cable. Iremove my mag, lock back the slide and run thecable through the mag opening and lock it to a part of my car. This secures both the upper and lower receiver. It is unloaded and cannot possibly be fired.

LEO229, have you read this article btw? Apparently that style lock (same as the ones that come with XD's and some police stations freebie) is easily broken with a pair of pliers (scroll down about half way):

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/the-lockdown-gun-locks-unsafe-at-any-caliber/

If the really want it.. They are going to get it. I know it is not the best lock... but it is better than leaving it left unsecured. I am still looking for something real secure.

What I want is a Strong box made if thick steel that is mounted down. I just have the find a space in my vehicle to put such an item.

But.. since I rarely store my gun in the car.. the cable lock works for me. Dept regs say I cannot leave it unsecured and this lock covers me.
 

Tomahawk

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Am I missing something? I thought that "no guns" signs in VA have no force of law; that the onwer/manager/staff must ask you to leave, and you must refuse, before you can be charged with trespassing?

Is this true or not?
 

kaiheitai17

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Tomahawk wrote:
Am I missing something? I thought that "no guns" signs in VA have no force of law; that the onwer/manager/staff must ask you to leave, and you must refuse, before you can be charged with trespassing?

Is this true or not?
My understanding also, if they ask you to leave then you leave. You don't leave they can call the cops and have you arrested. I carry concealed in those places and I don't look for signs either.
 

AbNo

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kaiheitai brings up two interesting points...

Yes, I know this goes back on what I asked earlier....

One, if you're going to carry in a No Guns place, CC.

Typically? Unless they are a flacid {donkey}, they are just going to say "Hey, you're not supposed to have that here, take it outside."

Think of it as no harm no foul. (Next time, conceal better... :p )

Now, if you OC in a place blatantly emblazoned with "ZOMG! No guns!", you're asking for trouble.

But then again, if they have signs like that up, you probably don't want to shop there, anyway. ;)
 
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