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Encounter at IKEA

Gray Peterson

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Go figure that two weeks after the lunch that occured where no one called the police, I get talked to by Officer Paget of the Renton PD. She tried to tell me that I'm required to have my CPL to carry openly, I asked her to please read the Federal Way training advisory that advised that this is only for concealed carry and loaded carry in one's car. She refused to read it, and then told me about the IKEA manager who was occured. This is after I spent $209 at the warehouse, and $10 at the bistro at the end.

Now, keep in mind, The IKEA manager did NOT trespass me. It's just that "several shoppers have come to them concerned". I was "allowed" to finish my meal there.

I will be addressing the issue with the local IKEA management tommorow, advising them of the disparate treatment of me versus the group two weeks ago, and advising them that I can just as easily return the $209 worth of stuff within the 45 day return policy.

Now, Paget's partner, Officer M. Coleman was a little more reasonable. He know that there was no CPL required, I advised him to let his partner know that, and he stated that he would do so and have her read the statute.

All in all, despite the poor treatment of IKEA, and the slip by Paget, it wasn't a horrid encounter.
 

just_a_car

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That's really odd. Maybe it was because you were a "lone gunman" and looked out of place, as opposed to a big group of people wearing guns. We probably looked like a bunch of undercover LEO's.

Hopefully the manager of the IKEA has something positive to say, perhaps even an apology, though that's probably wishful thinking.
 

Pa. Patriot

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Did the IKEA manager inform you of this or confirm the officers claim?

I ask because others have had similar things said to them only to find out after the fact (after sending letter, asking manager) that the manger said no such thing and the LEO had made up the whole thing... :what:

Definately call/write the manger.
 

Gray Peterson

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Pa. Patriot wrote:
Did the IKEA manager inform you of this or confirm the officers claim?

I ask because others have had similar things said to them only to find out after the fact (after sending letter, asking manager) that the manger said no such thing and the LEO had made up the whole thing... :what:

Definately call/write the manger.
The manager was there and stated so.
 

Mainsail

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There seems to be a lot of confusion on the part of the police about OC. When Officer Olsen started reading me the riot act on the waterfront, he was reciting the typical speech they give to someone who inadvertently exposes their concealed carry handgun. He stumbled when I pointed out the obvious, that I was open carrying.



I asked Officer Griswold during our telephone conversation about ‘man with a gun’ calls; does the 911 operator ask the caller what the person with the gun is doing that is of concern. He didn’t know. That’s the same thing here; some concerned individual comes to the manager and comments about your sidearm. A lot of grief could be avoided if they would just ask a couple follow-up questions. “What was the man with the gun doing? “Shopping? Well, that’s perfectly legal and within store policy.”



Also: Sending you a PM Lonnie.
 

just_a_car

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Mike wrote:
IKEA's are usually posted no-gun carry, yes?

At least they used to be.
This one didn't seem to be. We had an Open-Carry lunch a couple weeks ago there and no one noticed any signage to say we couldn't carry there. I can say that I took the time to look on my way in and didn't notice any.

It could also be individual store policies, as opposed to corporate policy. You may want to ask corporate IKEA about their policy regarding legal carry of firearms, both concealed and open, in their stores.
 

unrequited

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IKEA in Woodbrige, VA is clearly posted no firearms. Next time I go I'll try to take a pic, but it looked similar to the rest of the sinage of the store, so I'd assume it was corporate and not specific to the location.
 

eBratt

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I also know that the Phoenix, AZ store is posted.

It might be noteworthy that in both AZ and VA, force of law is behind posted private property. So perhaps because signage has no weight here in Washington, they don't bother posting worthless signs. Just a thought.
 

SicSemperTyrannis

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There is no "force of law" whatsoever behind a posted sign in Virginia. Even where specifically posted, you STILL can open carry. Only if you are asked to leave - and then refuse todo so- could you be cited, and even then it wouldonly be for trespassing, likeit would be for anyone who refused to leave after being asked to do so on private property.Signage has nothing to do with Virginia gun laws.
 

eBratt

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I don't know what either of you are talking about.

Straight from VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html)


[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Places Off-Limits While Carrying[/font] [font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Air Carrier Airport Terminals (Ticketed Passengers Baggage Exemption)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
ANY Courthouse
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] ANY Federal Property (Federal Offices/National Parks/Post Offices)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] Detention Facilities (Adult & Juvenile) [/font] [font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Military Facilities
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] Place of Worship During a Service "Without Good and Sufficent Reason" [/font] [font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Places With On-Premises Alcohol - Owners/Employees/Open Carry Exempted
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
*Private Property / Business When Prohibited by Owner or Posted*
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Public/Private/Parochial School Buses
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] Public/Private/Parochial School Functions [/font] [font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Public/Private/Parochial School Property (Concealed Carry by Permit Holders INSIDE Vehicles is Exempted)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
State Parks (CCW Ok. Open Carry Not Allowed)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] Virginia Commonwealth University

[/font]
(Emphasis mine)
 

44Brent

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
She refused to read it, and then told me about the IKEA manager who was occured.
  1. What does the above statement mean?
  2. Is IKEA the home furnishings store?
  3. Can you provide some more background on the sequence of events that lead up to this incident?
There was an IKEA in Renton I was planning to visit yesterday in Renton that has some book cases I want to purchase. Is this the same place?

Thanks,
Brent
 

just_a_car

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44Brent wrote:
Lonnie Wilson wrote:
She refused to read it, and then told me about the IKEA manager who was occured.
  1. What does the above statement mean?
  2. Is IKEA the home furnishings store?
  3. Can you provide some more background on the sequence of events that lead up to this incident?
There was an IKEA in Renton I was planning to visit yesterday in Renton that has some book cases I want to purchase. Is this the same place?

Thanks,
Brent
I'll do my best to answer and Lonnie can correct me if I'm wrong or affirm my answers:

1. I believe it was meant to say: "...IKEA manager who was concerned."
2. Yes, it is a very large home furnishings store in Renton/almost Tukwila; just southeast of Southcenter Mall.
3. That's gunna have to be all Lonnie, as he was the only one of the OCDO'ers present.
 

ScottNH

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Live Free or Die, ,
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eBratt wrote:
I don't know what either of you are talking about.

Straight from VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html)


[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Places Off-Limits While Carrying[/font] [font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Air Carrier Airport Terminals (Ticketed Passengers Baggage Exemption)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
ANY Courthouse
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]ANY Federal Property (Federal Offices/National Parks/Post Offices)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Detention Facilities (Adult & Juvenile) [/font][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Military Facilities
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Place of Worship During a Service "Without Good and Sufficent Reason" [/font][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Places With On-Premises Alcohol - Owners/Employees/Open Carry Exempted
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
*Private Property / Business When Prohibited by Owner or Posted*
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Public/Private/Parochial School Buses
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Public/Private/Parochial School Functions [/font][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
Public/Private/Parochial School Property (Concealed Carry by Permit Holders INSIDE Vehicles is Exempted)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
State Parks (CCW Ok. Open Carry Not Allowed)
[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Virginia Commonwealth University

[/font]
(Emphasis mine)
What they're saying is that signage has no legal standing in VA other than the tresspass statute, and for that to be enforced they must"catch" you with a weapon andask you to leave. In some states, the law on concealed carry states "places off limits," then lists things like schools, courthouses, bars, "and places where posted no weapons." In that case, you are in violation of the law by simply carrying in those places. VA has no such statute, so it's kind of "don't ask-don't tell."
 

deanf

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Sorry to contiue this thread Shanghai but . . . .

It can be argued that the posting of the sign is the same as a verbal request to leave. Same as a general "No Tresspassing" sign conspicuously posted negates the need for a verbal warning before you could be arrested for tresspassing.

The "No Guns" sign is saying "If you carry a gun here, you are tresspassing. Please leave now." Next legal step: arrest.
 

ScottNH

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Live Free or Die, ,
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deanf wrote:
Sorry to contiue this thread Shanghai but . . . .

It can be argued that the posting of the sign is the same as a verbal request to leave. Same as a general "No Tresspassing" sign conspicuously posted negates the need for a verbal warning before you could be arrested for tresspassing.

The "No Guns" sign is saying "If you carry a gun here, you are tresspassing. Please leave now." Next legal step: arrest.
A citation in law, please, or perhaps a court case affirming this concept, and both, please, in reference to VA, as that is the focus of this discussion.
 

just_a_car

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Auburn, Washington, USA
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ScottNH wrote:
deanf wrote:
Sorry to contiue this thread Shanghai but . . . .

It can be argued that the posting of the sign is the same as a verbal request to leave. Same as a general "No Tresspassing" sign conspicuously posted negates the need for a verbal warning before you could be arrested for tresspassing.

The "No Guns" sign is saying "If you carry a gun here, you are tresspassing. Please leave now." Next legal step: arrest.
A citation in law, please, or perhaps a court case affirming this concept, and both, please, in reference to VA, as that is the focus of this discussion.
Actually, no, this is the WASHINGTON forum and the IKEA in question from the original post is located in Renton, Washington.
 

ScottNH

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You are, of course, exactly correct.Thisis the WA forum, but the thread had drifted Eastward, and I blindly went with it, and we ended up discussing VA law. Sorry.

A WA law cite backing up this assertion would be nice, though.
 
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