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Thread: Where, When, and What Can I Carry?

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    I'm looking for a straight forward statement of whereand whenI can carry. As an 18 year-old, I cannot posses a CPL, so what restrictions and guidlines do I have to follow?

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    Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer or do I play one on TV.

    First you likely have already found out the only way you can buy a pistol is from a private individual, no one with a FFL can sell you one until you are 21.

    As to carrying a loaner Mi law is very specific on the loaning of a gun to a individual, and can do a search here for the specific language. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ky0...aspx?page=home

    As to carry open is indeed your only option, so at the range, on your parents land or any relatives that will let you. A hunting license will let carry one for use if it is above .44 caliber during specific seasons.

    Keep it clean until your 21'st. My youngest is only 5 months from there and is real anxious.

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    Without being 21, you can't get a CPL so your only option is to open carry. The only restrictions for open carry in MI are:

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. [M.S.A. 28.431(4)]Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.


    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

    Remember a handgun in a vehicle is concealed even in plain site. You need to have it UNLOADED and cased, locked in the trunk.




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    So, theoretically, I could walk around downtown Midland with my glock ina holster on my hip, right? I understand I should probably expect to be hassled by the cops or whoever. That brings me to my next question, if the above statement is true, then what legislation could I carry with me to help me to enlighten local law enforcement when the inevitable hassling occurs?

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    Yes you can. You shouldn't need anything to show you aren't breaking any laws.

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    Leader wrote:
    Yes you can. You shouldn't need anything to show you aren't breaking any laws.
    Bold statement from someone that will not be facing possible arrest, although here you are preaching to the choir.

    Unfortunatelymany police officers are not required to be orproperly informed of Michigan law nor are their precincts. They will often quote their opinion as law, which carries the same weight and authorityas law until challenged.

    You may well face arrest and need a very good lawyer, do some local research before you stick you neck out, and find Michigan compiled law and have a copy to show, it's cheap insurance.

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    North Dakota and Maine issue to 18 year olds. Get one of theirs. It won't let you carry concealed in Michigan but you won't be subject to the litany of OC restrictions.

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    dup

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    Sheldon wrote:
    Leader wrote:
    Yes you can. You shouldn't need anything to show you aren't breaking any laws.
    Bold statement from someone that will not be facing possible arrest, although here you are preaching to the choir.

    Unfortunatelymany police officers are not required to be orproperly informed of Michigan law nor are their precincts. They will often quote their opinion as law, which carries the same weight and authorityas law until challenged.

    You may well face arrest and need a very good lawyer, do some local research before you stick you neck out, and find Michigan compiled law and have a copy to show, it's cheap insureance.

    There is NO law that says you CAN carry. There is no law that says you CAN do anything, only laws that prohibit things. In Michigan, open carry is NOT prohibited.

    I have open carried in this state with NO problems. I have never been hasseled in any way. I am over 21 & do have a CPL though and didn't carry before I got one except when hunting. I actually believed that I would be arested for doing nothing wrong and thrown in jail. After I got the CPL and actually tried open carry, I found out that doesn't happen.

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    I am glad you live in a pro gun city, not every one does, Can you say Wayne county, could I get away with it where I live, maybe as I am on a first name basis with the Sheriff, Prosecuting attorney, and know most of the police department. I am just saying before he takes this step he needs to do some research and have his ducks in a row as it is easer to stay out of trouble than to get out once there.

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    "As to carry open is indeed your only option, so at the range, on your parents land or any relatives that will let you. A hunting license will let carry one for use if it is above .44 caliber during specific seasons."

    Sheldon, I hunt with a handgun in Michigan. Please cite any law orMDNR regulation referring toabove caliber statement.

    Thanks


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    Sheldon wrote:

    As to carry open is indeed your only option, so at the range, on your parents land or any relatives that will let you. A hunting license will let carry one for use if it is above .44 caliber during specific seasons.


    Sheldon.... A Michigan Hunting License doesn't have anything to do with being able to CARRY a handgun. It DOES allow you to HUNT with any legal firearm includeing a handgun. But you still must obay all the handgun rules and have a CPL if you conceal it at ANY time.

    And Yes... there is a caliber restriction in the lower half of the lower pen. during firearm DEER season. Nov.15 through Nov.30. *IF* you are deer hunting.

    Oh yah... I deer hunt with my .357 here every year. I also hunt ground hogs with it & a .22 pistol. Michigan is really pretty tolerant when it comes to guns.




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    I don't have time to look it up right now but I think it is .30 or .35 caliber straight walled cartridge or greater for deer and no more the 6 rounds total.

    Diverdave

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    Diverdave wrote:
    I don't have time to look it up right now but I think it is .30 or .35 caliber straight walled cartridge or greater for deer and no more the 6 rounds total.

    Diverdave
    yah Dave.. It's .35 Cal & 9 rounds but this is a hunting thing & has NOTHING to do with the origanal question.

    Open carry is LEGAL here in MI. and as long as you don't carry where you aren't susposed to you will NOT get into trouble.

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    thanks Leader. The 6 rounds applies to long guns. Back to the op. The best information i can offer is here: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...654---,00.html



    Diverdave

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    It is not a law, but the April and May '07 issues of the Michigan State Police Legal Updates,which is published for law enforcement personnel,clarify that it is legal to open carry in the state of Michigan.

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf

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    That's good reading, 67390FE. I typed a lot of it up into an email to send to some of my family, so I'll post it here for those that don't want to follow the link:

    From the Michigan State Police Legal Updates for April and May, 2007.

    Link to April

    Link to May


    (from April Newsletter)

    Did You Know:

    NOTE: The following material does not represent new law.
    Instead, it is intended to inform officers of infrequently used laws which might prove useful.


    It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol.

    As odd as it may appear, it is legal in Michigan for a person to carry a pistol in public as long as it is carried with lawful intent and not concealed.

    Of course, there are limits. First, a person may not carry a pistol into any of the places listed in MCL 750.234d. (See below) Second, a person may not carry a pistol in a manner that violates the brandishing a firearm statute (MCL 750.234e). Finally, a pistol can't be carried in public where it violates local ordinance.

    (cont'd in May newsletter)


    Open carry of a pistol...revisited

    In the April 2007 edition of the Update we noted that openly (non-concealed) carrying a pistol in Michigan is generally legal. Here we will note a couple of things to keep in mind during open carry situations.

    First, a person may not "open carry" a pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Once a person enters a passenger compartment with a pistol they are carrying it concealed in violation of MCL 750.227. In order to carry in a passenger compartment, a person must either be licensed to carry a concealed pistol or otherwise be exempted from Section 227 (e.g., a police officer).

    Second, in the April edition we noted that a pistol cannot be carried in public where it violates local ordinance. This is true, but only where the ordinance is specifically authorized by state law.

    In MRCGO v. Ferndale, the Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. Therefore, officers should check with their prosecutors before enforcing an ordinance that imposes a general ban on openly carrying a pistol.
    [line]Text of MCL 750.234d, Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty:

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act. No. 8 of the Public Acts of Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);](c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    [line]
    MCL 28.432 CPL holders may possess a pistol registered to another person.Effective July 1, 2006

    A Concealed Pistol License holder will be permitted to carry a pistol properly registered to another person.
    Note: Persons who have not been issued a CPL will continue to be prohibited from carrying another person's pistol.
    Did You Know?
    Generally, persons from other states may not possess a pistol in Michigan unless they are a police officer or a concealed pistol license holder.

    MCL 28.422 requires a person to obtain a License to Purchase before they purchase, transport, or carry a pistol in Michigan. MCL 28.422(3)(c) requires that a person be a "legal resident of this state" in order to obtain a license (which begins the registration process). The only exception in that statute is for active-duty military members, who have 30 days after returning to Michigan to register a pistol.

    Other exceptions to the registration requirement can be found in MCL 28.432. That statue includes an exception for concealed pistol license holders from other states. Active and retired police officers are exempted from the registration requirements by federal law (The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, 19 USC 926B, et seq). That Act allows active and retired police officers to transport a pistol anywhere in the United States notwithstanding state firearms laws, provided they meet the requirements of the Act.

    The bottom line under these statutes is that person from other states may not bring a pistol into Michigan unless they are a police officer or hold a CPL from their state of residence. There are no exceptions for persons who wish to bring a pistol to Michigan to hunt or target shoot.


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    mzbk2l wrote:
    There are no exceptions for persons who wish to bring a pistol to Michigan to hunt or target shoot.
    I thought non-residents could bring handguns into the state for hunting and target shooting. Does the MSP have this right? I though we could travel with a handgun through any state as long as it was unloaded and in a case.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    mzbk2l wrote:
    There are no exceptions for persons who wish to bring a pistol to Michigan to hunt or target shoot.
    I thought non-residents could bring handguns into the state for hunting and target shooting. Does the MSP have this right? I though we could travel with a handgun through any state as long as it was inloaded and in a case.
    Non residents can only carry handguns if they have a CPL or equilivent from thier home state.

    MSP doesn't have anything to do with it, this is Michigan State Law.

    Yes.. you can transport a handgun unloaded in a locked case unaccessable to occupents of the vehicle for any lawfull perpuse.

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    Leader wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    mzbk2l wrote:
    There are no exceptions for persons who wish to bring a pistol to Michigan to hunt or target shoot.
    I thought non-residents could bring handguns into the state for hunting and target shooting. Does the MSP have this right? I though we could travel with a handgun through any state as long as it was inloaded and in a case.
    Non residents can only carry handguns if they have a CPL or equilivent from thier home state.

    MSP doesn't have anything to do with it, this is Michigan State Law.

    Yes.. you can transport a handgun unloaded in a locked case unaccessable to occupents of the vehicle for any lawfull perpuse.
    Why does it have to be from thier home state? The statute referenced makes no such restriction.

    Text of MCL 750.234d, Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty:

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act. No. 8 of the Public Acts of Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);](c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.



  21. #21
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    Why does it have to be from thier home state? The statute referenced makes no such restriction.
    See below:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(e1c...&highlight=

    Act 372 of 1927 Section 28.432a

    "(h) A resident of another state who is licensed by that state to carry a concealed pistol."
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Because Michigan doesn't recognize non resident permits from ANY state.

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    lockman wrote:
    Why does it have to be from thier home state? The statute referenced makes no such restriction.
    Becouse this is the same guy who wrote "As odd as it may appear, it is legal in Michigan for a person to carry a pistol in public as long as it is carried with lawful intent and not concealed."

    His bias is showing through all over the place and apparently he does not bother to read, understand, and desiminate.

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    Kingfish, I'm not sure that is bias as much as it is simply reality. I grew up in Michigan, and open carry is extremely rare to see. Therefore, it really would appear odd to see a person doing so.

    I'm not sure that stating that fact indicates bias, especially when the rest of the article went on to educate readers on the legality of open carry in Michigan.

    It seemed like a pretty good read to me.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    Kingfish, I'm not sure that is bias as much as it is simply reality. I grew up in Michigan, and open carry is extremely rare to see. Therefore, it really would appear odd to see a person doing so.

    I'm not sure that stating that fact indicates bias, especially when the rest of the article went on to educate readers on the legality of open carry in Michigan.

    It seemed like a pretty good read to me.

    What I was getting out of it was that he was saying that it was opdd that it is legal. I suposed he could be saying that open carry is odd...Not sure.

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