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Thread: Controversal Topic: Open Carry vs. Racial Profiling

  1. #1
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    Ok, I would have liked to not be forced by curiosity to bring this up, but here it goes. First of all, I am black. While I realize the slim chance I'm still gonna ask; are there any other black people on this forum and do you open carry? Personally, that is my main reason for being very apprehensive toward trying this out. If I'm just paranoid please let me know. Just the other day I was on my way to work, dressed very nicely to adhere to the business casual dress code on the weekday, I'm carrying my Glock17 (in my hand) in holster to the car like I do every day. There's almost never anyone outside when I do, but this day my new neighbors happen to be getting in the car at the same time as me, also parked right next to me. Just to mention I live in a very nice neighborhood that I'll be moving out of shortly so they can turn my apartment into a condo. Maybe people in an area like this would be more on the uppity side and likely to react this way. I greet the man, who is probably the husband of the lady I met a couple weeks ago (lady already in the car), like nothing is out of the ordinary and I was in a hurry so I wouldn't be late. The guy has this hypnotic stare fixed on the gun and never attempts to look me in the eye, but he does respond to my greeting with a small, reluctant voice while sliding in the passenger seat. I couldn't tell if he was sweating because of the LA heat or the heart attack he almost had. Now I stick my gun in my pocket on the way to the car. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not so ignorant or naive to think this only happened because of my skin, but I'm not so ignorant or naive to not have the question mark in the back of my mind. Guns do attract a lot of attention on their own, but guns paired with racism might be a combination I don't need. Not even so much on the civilian side, but what about LEOs? I'm all for exercising a right, but even if it's not something I can legally be taken to jail for I don't have time to be feared and harassed every where I go.

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    What state are you in for discussion's sake? I've noticed a couple wayward stares on the few occasions I've OC'ed but since I'm in northern VA I've just chocked that up to the gun instead of being asian. Sorry to hear that it's even a concern of yours but glad you're here to discuss it.
    -Unrequited

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    I figured it would be more appropriate to post in my state's forum section since people in the south are probably more race conscious. So yeah, geaux Louisiana! It's not like I would ever compromise my safety for someone else's opinion, but if it's gonna be a hassle I'd rather CC. I did take the class. Just haven't turned in the application. I just ride with my loaded partner in the passenger seat.

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    Hah, my bad, I didn't notice the forum title since I usually go by the Recent items, and didn't see a location for your profile.

    Have you read the Black Man With A Gun threads from Danbus in the VA forums?
    -Unrequited

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    Nah. I'm new so I wasn't sure if this was something posted about already and I didn't thing searching would help. I'll check it out now.

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    100Percen% wrote:
    Nah. I'm new so I wasn't sure if this was something posted about already and I didn't thing searching would help. I'll check it out now.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but I personally don't care that you're black. I dont really think it matters when it comes to standing up for your rights.

    A man is a man.

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    CrashVector wrote:
    100Percen% wrote:
    Nah. I'm new so I wasn't sure if this was something posted about already and I didn't thing searching would help. I'll check it out now.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but I personally don't care that you're black. I dont really think it matters when it comes to standing up for your rights.

    A man is a man.
    Maybe he's wanting to wear Danbus' hat?

    LoveMyCountry

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    CrashVector wrote:
    100Percen% wrote:
    Nah. I'm new so I wasn't sure if this was something posted about already and I didn't thing searching would help. I'll check it out now.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but I personally don't care that you're black. I dont really think it matters when it comes to standing up for your rights.

    A man is a man.
    Not always, at one point black men were only 3/5th's of a man.

    But to answer your question, I do not think race has a big picture of sorts, but I do think it is an issue with certain people in certain areas. Some people maybe cause an issue with you because you are black and want to start a confrontation and may think that you carrying a firearm is a good way to do that. However, I would not let this diminish your ambitions to stand up for your rights. I support you decision for oc!!

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    Guns do attract a lot of attention on their own, but guns paired with racism might be a combination I don't need.
    Racism is their choice and you can't control how stupid someone else is. You are the only one who can decide what your rights are worth to you. Ask yourself this question, what other rights would you give up just because you are black? Would you stop voting or speaking out or going wherever you want? I doubt it. Please, NEVER let what someone may or may not do cause you to stop doing what you know is right.

    LoveMyCountry

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    CrashVector wrote:
    100Percen% wrote:
    Nah. I'm new so I wasn't sure if this was something posted about already and I didn't thing searching would help. I'll check it out now.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but I personally don't care that you're black. I dont really think it matters when it comes to standing up for your rights.

    A man is a man.
    Crash has it right here,and just keep on packing! It matters not if a man is Smurf Blue to me!

    As an interesting abstract thought, we open carriers sometimes experience the predjudice and misunderstandind that black folks are sometimes exposed to, even today. A humbling experience.

    No matter. A warm welcome to you, Sir, from the Limey Cracker!You will, I hope, be heartened by the fact that our comrade Danbus, a gentleman of colour, has gotten much support from his white comrades here. I understand your apprehension as far as OC goes, but baby steps is the way to go. Best of luck to you.

    TrueBrit.

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    100% glad to see you here.

    While I am not black I do experience asmall amount of'profiling' due to my long hair.

    I do understand how in our state, you could be profiled by some uppity folks who watch WWL everynight. You did not give an area so I cannot really guess what your neighbors are like, only upscale apt. dwellers.

    I would suggest that you 'wear' your weapon to and from your car. This keeps it from being so high profile. After all just like a pen it has to be in your hand for you to use it, but inapocket for the pen or holster for the gunit is just there.

    But, there are people who just will never accept a gun as a tool and not a menace. Never mind them, live free.

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    The responses so far on this thread have mostly been restricted to "Well, I'M all for black men carrying guns and support people of all colors carrying weapons, etc." While these are admirable sentiments, they don't really address 100%s concerns as the original post expresses them.

    Here's the situation in LA as I've experienced it. There is a fair amount of racism here. My black friends have more "hassled by the cops" stories then my white friends (though both have more then in some other places I've lived over the years). Carrying a gun would supply police with a reason (in their minds) to give you crap, especially if they were already looking for a reason. It's not pretty, but there it is.

    It seems like you're trying to decipher how much of your neighbor's reactions were due to the simple presence of a weapon, and how much it may or may not have been compounded by your skin color. It could be either or both that bothered them. The fact that they're new neighbors would make it tricky to determine. I know people who are racists who wouldn't be bothered by a gun, and I know people who aren't racists who are terrified of the thought of a gun in the same room as them.

    It seems to me that you already know the answer to your concern. As you said, you're "not so ignorant or naive" as to blame people's reactions entirely on either variable.

    One has to choose ones battles wisely. It's up to you to determine if this issue is important enough to you to stick out your neck to support. If you do, you've come to the right place. The folks here fight a common battle, and we're all comrades-in-arms (no pun intended, ).

    One last thought. I am admittedly new to carrying openly (you can see my thread "Starting small)." However I've discovered one important thing already. When those people staring at your hip finally peel their eyes away from your weapon, they're going to look at your face. If, when they get to that point, they see a friendly smile and wave, it's often the first step to easing their concerns. At least it's worked for me so far. Have you seen or spoken with your neighbors since the incident you described? Do you think your greeting had any discernable positive effect?

    Disclaimer: I AM a girl (another minority on this website). The friendly smile may or may not be an effective tactic for guys (and blowing kisses is DEFINATELY out, lol). You'll have to try it out and let me know!

    Welcome to OCDO. Hope to see you around! (Both here and on the street, yaaay OCers!)

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    100Percen%,

    You can always regulate your OC to your own choosing. I only OC when I can afford to be harassed. If I have a businessappointment within two hours, I don't OC. If I don't have time to be kicked out of one restaurant and go looking for another, I don't OC. If I can't afford to be harassed, I just CC.

    Gun-control in this country is documented by scholars to have started with racism. Keeping guns out of the hands of slaves. Then keeping guns out of the hands of freed blacks. In fact, the racist angle gave rise to some of theproof that firearms ownership is an individual right. Dred Scott, the Supreme Court case from the (1850's?)about freed blacks, has a perfect example.Within the text of the opinion, a justice lists out the rights one would have to grant to blacks if you wanted them to be equal. One of the itemslisted is that (paraphrase) "blacks could own guns."


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Tazlima wrote:
    The responses so far on this thread have mostly been restricted to "Well, I'M all for black men carrying guns and support people of all colors carrying weapons, etc." While these are admirable sentiments, they don't really address 100%s concerns as the original post expresses them.

    Here's the situation in LA as I've experienced it. There is a fair amount of racism here. My black friends have more "hassled by the cops" stories then my white friends (though both have more then in some other places I've lived over the years). Carrying a gun would supply police with a reason (in their minds) to give you crap, especially if they were already looking for a reason. It's not pretty, but there it is.

    It seems like you're trying to decipher how much of your neighbor's reactions were due to the simple presence of a weapon, and how much it may or may not have been compounded by your skin color. It could be either or both that bothered them. The fact that they're new neighbors would make it tricky to determine. I know people who are racists who wouldn't be bothered by a gun, and I know people who aren't racists who are terrified of the thought of a gun in the same room as them.

    It seems to me that you already know the answer to your concern. As you said, you're "not so ignorant or naive" as to blame people's reactions entirely on either variable.

    One has to choose ones battles wisely. It's up to you to determine if this issue is important enough to you to stick out your neck to support. If you do, you've come to the right place. The folks here fight a common battle, and we're all comrades-in-arms (no pun intended, ).

    One last thought. I am admittedly new to carrying openly (you can see my thread "Starting small)." However I've discovered one important thing already. When those people staring at your hip finally peel their eyes away from your weapon, they're going to look at your face. If, when they get to that point, they see a friendly smile and wave, it's often the first step to easing their concerns. At least it's worked for me so far. Have you seen or spoken with your neighbors since the incident you described? Do you think your greeting had any discernable positive effect?

    Disclaimer: I AM a girl (another minority on this website). The friendly smile may or may not be an effective tactic for guys (and blowing kisses is DEFINATELY out, lol). You'll have to try it out and let me know!

    Welcome to OCDO. Hope to see you around! (Both here and on the street, yaaay OCers!)
    I definately appreciate everyone's responses and support. I would have been more active in my own thread if my internet connection didn't decide to die for a few days. I think Tazlima understands theintentions of my post completely. I definately think that my neighbor's reaction was mostly influenced by the presence of the weapon and as preacher said the fact that it was in my hand and less by my skin color if at all. I haven't seen the man or his wife around since then. They're not at home often and we haven't crossed paths. If I wasn't about to be late for work I would have started a conversation to explain my reasons as a way to educate someone who's obviously unaware of the right we have and why we choose to exercise that right. This situation though, as it was the first time I've experienced it, made me realize what kind of other situations could arise and how it would be a chance that these hypothetical situations might not happen or be less problematic if color wasn't an issue. So yes, Citizen, my OCing will be very selective. I don't have to feel as though my rights are being obstructed and my safety is compromised, I still have the right to CC (as soon as I get the license). I'll just choose to not OC when I don't have the time to be confronted.

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    100Percen% wrote:
    I still have the right to CC (as soon as I get the license). I'll just choose to not OC when I don't have the time to be confronted.
    And this seems to be a common practice, at least from whatothers say,when you do not 'have the time' to be an OCpolitical activist.

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    Bought a Blackhawk Level 2 Serpa thursday. That's my follow-up answer to this topic. I'll be leaving some feedback from my experiences after my first few outings.

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    openryan wrote:
    CrashVector wrote:
    A man is a man.
    Not always, at one point black men were only 3/5th's of a man.
    Not quite.

    When determining how many congressional representatives each state would have, the slave states wanted slaves to be counted 100%, while non-slave states didn't want slaves to be counted at all. Free blacks were counted 100%.



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    Take baby steps
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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