Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: "Open Carry" runs afoul of police at San Diego bank.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13636340/detail.html
    It happened at 11:40 a.m. at the Wells Fargo Bank on 10707 Camino Ruiz at Mira Mesa Blvd.

    Police responded to the scene after receiving a call from someone inside the bank, said Mónica Muñoz, spokeswoman for the San Diego Police Department. The caller said there was a man seated inside who appeared to have a gun in his lap, according to Muñoz.


    The man who was wearing the belt, Jacob Johnson, 23, told NBC 7/39 he had no idea his fashion accessory alarmed anyone inside.



    He said he was sitting down, talking on his cell phone, while waiting for his friend, Jeff Russell, 23, to open an account. No one questioned him about his belt while inside, he said.
    When the two were done, they left the bank to find police waiting for them with guns drawn, Russell said.



    "The cops said, 'Put your hands in the air'," Johnson said.
    Johnson said he and Russell were handcuffed, placed in the back of a patrol car, and questioned by police.



    Was Johnson surprised at the reaction the belt received?
    "It's a belt buckle," Johnson told NBC 7/39. "Maybe they should have just looked at it and said it wasn't a real gun."



    While Munoz said the pair did not break any laws, police explained to them that "it's a very sensitive situation" for anyone to carry a weapon -- real or a replica -- in a bank.
    Johnson said belts like his are for sale almost anywhere, including local malls and the Del Mar fair.


    The two men are not facing any charges.


    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...06gunbelt.html
    SAN DIEGO – It began as a report of an attempted bank robbery.
    It turned out to be nothing more than a man's distinctive belt buckle.


    The belt with its distinctive buckle is shown on the hood of a patrol car.

    Police surrounded the Wells Fargo Bank branch on Camino Ruiz near Mira Mesa Boulevard in Mira Mesa at 11:42 a.m. after someone in the bank reported a man had what looked like a gun under his shirt.



    The man, 24-year-old Jacob Johnson of Rancho Peñasquitos, was wearing a dress shirt, casual slacks and a belt with a gun-shaped buckle when he and his friend and neighbor, Jeffrey Russell, entered the bank.



    Johnson said he sat and waited while Russell opened an account and cashed a check.



    Several minutes later they walked out of the bank to see 10 to 15 police officers with their real guns pointing at them, Johnson said.



    “They said 'Put your hands in the air,' ” he said.



    Officers then handcuffed both men and put them in the back of separate police cars


    Funny- my real pistol didn't get me nearly this much attention while at a branch of my bank.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  2. #2
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    ...police explained to them that "it's a very sensitive situation" for anyone to carry a weapon -- real or a replica -- in a bank.
    Um, no. It's a sad situation that the po-po is so scared of nothing. They ought to get these men in blue some more training as their fear seems to be compelling them to illegally terry stop people. Bad ju-ju


    Unfortunately, the victim of this illegal act will most likely THANK the police for being so "diligent" and go home feeling "safer".

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327

    Post imported post

    Funny- my real pistol didn't get me nearly this much attention while at a branch of my bank.
    Apples and oranges--you live in the American part of California!

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    This thread is useless without pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    What on earth could this jackboot be thinking?
    After taking off the guys belt they then put him in the back of a squad car?
    FOR WHAT?

    ...And the sheeple applaud. <vomit>


    How can this jackboot can possibly still have a job as an LEO is totally beyond me.


  6. #6
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    If LEO 229 had been there he would have run the s/n on that buckle for sure!




  7. #7
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ocean Shores, WA
    Posts
    593

    Post imported post

    Johnson said belts like his are for sale almost anywhere, including local malls and the Del Mar fair.
    Someone tell me where I can get one of these buckles! I'll use it on my gun belt. That way when one of those folks that like to grab Open Carried guns go for mine, they'll grab my belt buckle instead... and my pants will fall down. :shock:

    That'll teach 'em.

    LoveMyCountry

    P.S. Was it really necessary for the Police to confiscate the man's lollypop? When will this abuse of power be stopped?

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    Was it really necessary for the Police to confiscate the man's lollypop?
    Well, DUH!

    It could be stolen !!!


  9. #9
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ocean Shores, WA
    Posts
    593

    Post imported post

    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:**
    Was it really necessary for the Police to confiscate the man's lollypop?
    Well, DUH!

    It could be stolen !!!
    Someone better run the serial number on it then. Let's see, who around here does that? :P

    LoveMyCountry

  10. #10
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    ...Let's see, who around here does that? :P
    hehe -

  11. #11
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    ...police explained to them that "it's a very sensitive situation" for anyone to carry a weapon -- real or a replica -- in a bank.
    Um, no. It's a sad situation that the po-po is so scared of nothing. They ought to get these men in blue some more training as their fear seems to be compelling them to illegally terry stop people. Bad ju-ju


    Unfortunately, the victim of this illegal act will most likely THANK the police for being so "diligent" and go home feeling "safer".
    Um, did you read the story? The police did not instigate the stop.... a client of the bank did. Your response seems quite unreasonable in itself.


  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    openryan wrote:
    Um, did you read the story? The police did not instigate the stop.... a client of the bank did. Your response seems quite unreasonable in itself.
    Excuse you?

    He had a gun belt buckle. That was readily apparent to the cops when they searched him and they still cuffed and stuffed him.

  13. #13
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    They do make belt buckles that hold smill pistols. It may very well look real at a distance of 10-15 feet. Doesn't say that anyone was detained for an unreasonable amount of time, nor did the police react to this buckle situation on their own accord, they received a call from a concerned client of the bank -- how does this make the police unreasonable?--because they responded to a man with a gun call? It comes with the territory.


    Edit::celebrate

  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    When they took the belt off him it was obvious it was not real.

    They were unreasonable in then detaining him, which they did.

  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    What is california law regarding intimidation with a look alike deadly weapon. I am not saying this guy was trying to intimidate anyone, however he probably caused alarm to the person calling in. Even with a look alike weapon if they had reason to believe this, they would have grounds to arrest him, albeit unfair.

    I still believe the actions by the police were within reason, nothing along the likes of the danbus controversy.


  16. #16
    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    511

    Post imported post

    openryan wrote:
    What is california law regarding intimidation with a look alike deadly weapon. I am not saying this guy was trying to intimidate anyone, however he probably caused alarm to the person calling in. Even with a look alike weapon if they had reason to believe this, they would have grounds to arrest him, albeit unfair.

    I still believe the actions by the police were within reason, nothing along the likes of the danbus controversy.
    Does Indiana have a law like that? I doubt it. AndI doubt California has one either.

  17. #17
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    reefteach wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    What is california law regarding intimidation with a look alike deadly weapon. I am not saying this guy was trying to intimidate anyone, however he probably caused alarm to the person calling in. Even with a look alike weapon if they had reason to believe this, they would have grounds to arrest him, albeit unfair.

    I still believe the actions by the police were within reason, nothing along the likes of the danbus controversy.
    Does Indiana have a law like that? I doubt it. AndI doubt California has one either.
    I am not aware of any Indiana statutes that differentiate between intimidation with a deadly weapon and intimidation with a look alike weapon -- even if the later may not be expressed in and of any statutes themselves, the violation would of such statute would give the police the grounds to arrest of at least detain someone for, they were not arrested into custody, they were detained briefly, after (and this is my thought process) the police could rule out any intended intimidation or cause of alarm, they released him.

    I am not aware if California has any such laws specifically giving difference to a look a like weapon, that is why I asked.

  18. #18
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Um, did you read the story? The police did not instigate the stop.... a client of the bank did. Your response seems quite unreasonable in itself.
    Excuse you?

    He had a gun belt buckle. That was readily apparent to the cops when they searched him and they still cuffed and stuffed him.
    There was no need to cuff these guys and arrest them for a little while. That was silly. If they want to call the guy an idiot, that's one thing. But to arrest them after they could see it was a belt buckle ony, that's excessive. The LEOs who were involved in that part of the incident should be ashamed of themselves.

    I'm sure they would say, "procedure."

    I do appreciate that the LEOs did manage to stiflethemselves enough to forego filing charges. Renews my faith in LE a little bit.

  19. #19
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    openryan wrote:
    What is california law regarding intimidation with a look alike deadly weapon. I am not saying this guy was trying to intimidate anyone, however he probably caused alarm to the person calling in. Even with a look alike weapon if they had reason to believe this, they would have grounds to arrest him, albeit unfair.

    I still believe the actions by the police were within reason, nothing along the likes of the danbus controversy.
    Well, this doesn't rise to the level of intimidation or brandishing, but the law governing the display of an 'imitation firearm' is fairly specific.

    See CaliforniaPenal Code-

    12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
    (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
    (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
    (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a
    firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in
    coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a
    reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

    12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
    firearm
    , as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
    (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
    ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
    second offense.
    (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
    as a misdemeanor.
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
    imitation firearm is:
    (1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public
    viewing.
    (2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including
    commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or
    restoration of the imitation firearm.
    (3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video,
    television, or stage production.
    (4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting
    event or competition.
    (5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest
    control activities.
    (6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private
    shooting ranges.
    (7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar
    activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state
    government.
    (8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities,
    including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award
    presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
    (9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private
    schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
    (10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for
    which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
    (11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
    (12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
    (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
    white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
    blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
    predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
    where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
    materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
    complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in
    federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The
    entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
    (e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an
    area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges,
    alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots,
    automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general
    public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide
    entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or
    dwellings.
    (f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude
    prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

    So, in this case- a what a reasonable persons perception plays a big part of what's going on. Would a reasonable person percieve that the belt buckle was an actual firearm? Again- reasonable...(knee jerk, flinching, 911 dialing dingbats need not apply). There is nothing in the story indicating this person did anything that would necessitate detention by police. The belt buckle does not appear to look sufficiently like a firearm as to be construed as an 'imitation firearm' (it is as thin as a belt buckle and has no 'barrel' where bullets are supposed to come out).

    And even if it were a REAL firearm carried in a belt holster, charges would only apply if it were loaded in an incorporated area ora prohibited area of unincorporated territory,or carried within 1000 feet of a school.

    I'm almost inclined to send theSan Diego authorities a letter...:X

    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  20. #20
    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    511

    Post imported post

    Well that is interesting, especially combined with this:
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff-Appellee,
    v.
    JAMES EDWARD NEFF, Defendant-Appellant.

    APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH

    (D.C. NO. 2:00-CR-408 ST)

    We believe that the facts of record provide reasonable, articulable grounds for the officers to handcuff
    Defendant. The officers had reason to fear someone who was reliably reported to be carrying an unlawful weapon. And given the reason to believe the weapon was on or near the suspect's person, they had a sound basis for taking stringent precautions until they recovered it. We note that the district court found that Defendant was handcuffed for only a few minutes before the gun was discovered

    [/b]
    .

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    It's just a belt buckle. Not a gun replica or an imitation firearm.

    Everything got shaken out correctly, though it took a bit of time and energy and guns were out of holsters...

    Now, for the BIG question. Did young Jacob know that he was gonna cause a stir....



    My guess, and it is only a guess, is that he did.

  22. #22
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Now, for the BIG question. Did young Jacob know that he was gonna cause a stir....



    My guess, and it is only a guess, is that he did.
    In that case, it's time to sign up Jacob for a membership in CA OCDO and get him carrying something more effective!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    If LEO 229 had been there he would have run the s/n on that buckle for sure!


    Too funny!

    Honestly.... Why would you want a belt buckle like that??!!

    Rhetorical question... the answer is in the photo...

  24. #24
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If LEO 229 had been there he would have run the s/n on that buckle for sure!


    Too funny!

    Honestly.... Why would you want a belt buckle like that??!!

    Rhetorical question... the answer is in the photo...

    Oh I dunno,... maybe to get 'cuffed and stuffed' by Roscoe and Enos?

    In retrospect, Im a little cheesed. This punk is strapped with a belt buckle that kinda resembles a gun if you look all squinty eyed at it, gets hooked up and makesregional media... And I carry a real weapon, get detained for ten minutes, and only get a phone call from the Sheriff?

    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •