Prince William County Fair

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Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has been to the Prince William County Fair and if they have OC there or CC? I would like to go next month for the first time but want to make sure I can carry. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

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Some people appear to have in the past. Check this thread for more information.

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Its public property right?

And just to pose an out there question...

Say person "X" has 20 acres of open land that the county wants to rent or lease for the weekend for whatever public function. The county intends to pay for this event with taxpayer dollars. The land owner is against anyone OC or CC on his property. Can he legally prohibit the carry of firearms on his public property that is being rented and paid for with taxpayer dollars for a public event?

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That's an interesting question. I think it successfully skirts preemption. 15.2-915 states that a locality, etc. may not legislate on firearms unless specifically permitted by law by the general assembly and any law, ordinance etc proffered by them is void- basically. However, preemption cannothave effect against a private actor.

I believe this comes under contract law. If the locality were to enter into any agreement either as lessor, or lessee, by law they would be legally required to ensure that 15.2-915 was complied with. Accordingly, any negotiations between lessor & lessee in which any entity covered by 15.2-915 *MUST* include provisions to prohibit any firearms restrictions. Failure to do so clearly amounts to negligence on their part and failure to comply with the laws as written by the general assembly.

Doing something about it could be difficult. It would almost require a lawsuit, sinceboth parties will be super secretive about the terms of their contract. The locality's ageeement should be subject to FOIA however (I think).Winning might not necessarily fix the situation, because what happens to the existing contract? I don't think the court could legally amend a contract, only uphold it, or void it. You'd have to show bad faith and all the locality would have to dois "not remember" under oath and bad faith goes out the window.

I think this is something that we need to tackle with 15.2-915 amendment - to somehow say that any agreement with a private operator shall have the same restrictions as upon the gov. itself and that no venue owned, or leased by the gov may or private operator from the gov may include any provision prohibiting a firearm, or weapon.

Here's the tough part: We need a violation penalty. The general assembly never punishes it's own. Getting that hurdle crossed is going to be very hard.

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Wooley wrote:

Its public property right?

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I don't think so. It is private property owned by Prince William Vet's Farm Club, Inc.

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Actually I think they could prohibit carry if the land is leased from a private owner and not actually owned by the County. Any such lease agreement would likely NOT be subject to FOIA, as it involves real property negotiations, which are exempt from FOIA. It is a stretch however, as usually this would involve purchase rather than a lease.

In any case, the law is very clear that a private individual CAN prohibit firearms on his property, and the law does not make an exception for lease agreements, even if it is the county renting the property.

This is an even more interesting question because the County would be placed in the position of enforcing a private land owners wishes in this regard.

The Fair used to be held at the Guard Armory on 234. I have always wondered if the Guard was called up for federal service, would that convert the property to Federal control, thereby prohibiting carry of firearms.

Regards

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what was the verdict here?? should i just cc??

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It is private property, they have the right to refuse entry.

If you push it, the County Sheriff would have to go and get a Prince William Vet's Farm Club, Inc. representive, or produce a document from them stating the ban.

After many emails, no response from Prince William Vet's Farm Club, Inc.

I carry there, I do enter CC, but if it shows during the time I'm there, I'm not that worried about it.

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The PWC is not posted this year either.

I went in indifferently concealed, removed the long-sleeve bigshirt after I got out of the sun. No comments. I know at least two LEOs noticed; most either didn't notice or just didn't care.

So who else was there? Or was that unicorn we spotted? Black man, 30-50 years old (he was a ways away from us and walking away), light docker-style pants and dark T or polo shirt. As I said, he was walking away, and had already turned the gun away from me when spouse called him to my attention.

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i know its late, but when I went i ccw. at the gun store later I had a discussion with a man (forgot his name) that said open carry was NOT allowed but that ccw was ok. He stated the private land story. as I was concealed, I had no problem.

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vabi wrote:

i know its late, but when I went i ccw. at the gun store later I had a discussion with a man (forgot his name) that said open carry was NOT allowed but that ccw was ok. He stated the private land story. as I was concealed, I had no problem.

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Agreed, it might be private land. However, it is NOT posted, on the web site or publicly at the fair. Had it been, I would have obeyed (or more likely, concealed; who's to say).

Even if it's private property, an owner has (IMHO) a duty to inform you of any restrictions that might prevail over standard laws. Sort of like a restaurant that informs you up front they don't take checks; since checks are a legal tender, they owe you that. Not a perfect analogy, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

I attend other functions at PWC fairgrounds, and have yet to see it posted. The only time I've had issue is with the surly organizer who ties guns at the Gun Collector show held there.