Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: VCDL President Philip van Cleave eviscerates phony claim of gun show "loophole"

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post


  2. #2
    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    490

    Post imported post

    Good article. It's very fitting since I saw PVC at the gunshow in Richmond on Saturday. I was glad to see the place was packed. Oh and someone should put a stop to all those "unlicensed beef jerky dealers" there.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    By Philip Van Cleave

    Let's be clear about gun shows: There is nothing that can be done at a gun show that cannot be done legally outside of a gun show.


    The terms "gun show loophole" and "unlicensed gun dealer" are fabricated to mislead the public into thinking that gun shows permit gun sales that would be forbidden anywhere else. The intent of this scheme is to villainize gun shows, making the public more receptive to additional restrictions.


    This is just the first step in a "private gun-sale registration" scheme.


    Gun banners know they must take small steps, placing more and more hurdles to gun ownership so that fewer law abiding citizens will go to the trouble of purchasing a firearm.


    None of the hurdles would affect criminals. According to a 2001 U.S. Department of Justice report, only 0.7% of criminals got their guns from shows.


    A gun purchased from a dealer at a gun show requires the same background check as a gun purchased at the dealer's store. No loophole.


    In most states, a gun purchased from a person's private collection requires no background check, whether purchased at a gun show or at someone's home. Again, no loophole.


    A gun is like any other private property: It's yours to sell whenever you wish.


    Of course, gun banners would call you an "unlicensed gun dealer."


    Hogwash. Does selling your personal car make you an "unlicensed car dealer?"


    Gun banners want to force dealers to do background checks on private sales. That would put a heavy burden on dealers who must keep the paperwork for decades and delay their own sales while running those checks. That would drive up the cost of buying a gun, creating another hurdle for the prospective law abiding purchaser.


    Of course, closing the imaginary "gun show loophole" is only the first step. Gun banners will then say that since private sales are not allowed at gun shows, the "home gun-sale loophole" must be closed.


    Ultimately, complete gun registration is the goal. Where there is registration, there is confiscation, as gun owners in California, Illinois, New York and Washington, D.C., learned when authorities confiscated guns that were banned after the owner had bought and registered them.


    Philip Van Cleave is president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (www.vcdl.org), a gun rights group.



  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    Nothing most of us havent heard before, but not a view most Americans hear, but a succinct and clear example of how to write a LTE and editorial for our position. Bravo

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Station, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    59

    Post imported post

    Way to go Phillip.....as usual you exceed all expectations. We are privileged to have you as our President.

  6. #6
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,553

    Post imported post

    vt357 wrote:
    Good article. It's very fitting since I saw PVC at the gunshow in Richmond on Saturday. I was glad to see the place was packed. Oh and someone should put a stop to all those "unlicensed beef jerky dealers" there.
    I must have passed him 20 times while walking around the gunshow on Saturday. Great to see him interacting with people there.



  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed Location, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    Generally I agree with everyone else, PVC as usual did a great job articulating our position.

    I was struck by this passage in the 'opposing view' of the anti:

    But gun control advocates cite a 2000 ATF study that found gun shows were the second biggest source of illegal guns (after crooked gun dealers), accounting for some 26,000 illegal guns over 2 years.
    I viewed the linked ATF study (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...n_internet.pdf) and came up with this passage, which I assume is what the author is referring to:


    Gun shows. Gun shows were a major trafficking channel, involving the second highest number of trafficked guns per investigation (more than 130), and associated with approximately 26,000 illegally diverted firearms. The investigations involved both licensed and unlicensed sellers at gun shows.
    As usual, I suspect one can't take this assessment at face value. Since the investigation involved both licensed and 'unlicensed' sellers, without indicating how many of which, it's hard to determine from this assessment just how many of these illegal sales would've been avoided if only we'd fix the gun show 'loophole'.

    Then there's this:

    Unlicensed sellers. Unlicensed sellers were a focus of about a fifth of the trafficking investigations,
    and involved an average of about 75 guns per investigation and almost 23,000 guns. Unlicensed
    sellers range from individuals who knowingly sell guns to criminals from their personal collec-
    tions to interstate gun runners buying guns to sell to gangs and drug organizations.
    Presumably, some of the gun show sales are also counted as unlicesnsed sellers sales. Since unlicensed sellers are a focus of a fifth of investigations, assuming that includes unlicensed sellers who did not sell at gun shows, that would suggest to me that the number of unlicensed sellers at gun shows show sold what eventually became crime guns is a fairly low number.

    Also not clear from the report is the path taken by these crime guns. If I decide to sell my old Glock 19 as an 'unlicensed' seller, both because I want to stick it to the Man and because I read on the internet that a .45 will stop five drug-addled linebackers with a single shot into the dirt while a 9mm won't stop a six year old on a sugar high, I might sell it to you, who might give it to your mother in law, from whom it might be stolen and subsequently used in a homicide. It'll end up a crime gun, and it will have come from an 'unlicensed' seller at a gun show, but closing the 'loophole' won't prevent that.

    Anyone know why PVC didn't address this report? Was he not shown the opinion piece to which he was responding? Am I missing something more damning in this report?


  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    He had a word count limit. He putsome of time and effort into it.

    Not that he and I are drinking buddies or anything. I just e-mail complimented him on it and got the info in his reply.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spotsylvania County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    700

    Post imported post

    Hmm, not counting article titles, bylines, etc, the editorial had 589 words. Philip's op-ed had 365 words. These counts are from pasting the articles in MS-Word and using its raw word count. Nice size difference.
    ---

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Um, if anyone wants, I think I have a copy of the USA TOday this ran in, and I can scan it next weekend.

    You know, when I work on that VA Ranges thread... :P
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •