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Thread: No Open Carry at Va Beach

  1. #1
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    Two days ago,I had a conversation with one of Va beach's finest. he told me that it is now illegal to carry a hand gun OPEN in Va Beach. He stated that is was ok in Norfolk, but Not Va Beach. I tried to explain state preemption; but he said, that the department had just told all officers to stop anyone Open carrying. I asked him what he would do if he came across an open carried person, he stated that they would be detained and the firearm would have its SN # ran and recorded. This aggravated me to no end, but I was not going to get into it with him. Has anything changed to state preemption laws I don't know about?

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    Nothing has changed. State pre-emption forbids localities from regulating carrying of handguns in the Commonwealth. Federal restrictions still apply to federal property.

    Tidewater departments apparently need serious reeducation on the issues. In the last several weeks, we've seen posts regarding Norfolk, Hampton, and VA Beach.

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    You should have asked him how it works with illegal aliens since it's a sancuary city.

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    "Tidewater departments apparently need serious reeducation on the issues"

    vrwmiller: Agreed. It would help if all of the folksinvolved in these incidents in the Tidewater areawould contact VCDL and/or Philip Van Cleave every time they are hassled. Otherwise, one has to wonder about the veracity of some of these claims. Most are legit, undoubtedly - but if I was wronged, it wouldn't suffice to gripe about it on a message board when an organization exists dedicated to these issues.

    I have a direct "yes or no" question I would like to ask everyone who has reported an "incident" involving a tidewater (Norfolk, VA beach, Hampton) area police department in the past month: Have you reported your incident to anyone at VCDL?

    As far as Danbus is concerned, I would love to see theVCDL and, say, the NAACP join together and publicly challenge the Virginia Beach police department. If what is being reported is true, then the PD in the city where I was born needs to be put inits place. I'd *almost* feel sorry for the department if the NAACP and the VCDL (and perhaps the ACLU, too!) decided to throw some sunlight on the PD's behavior. I know the VCDL and Philip have worked closely with other groups before. The potential for positive, massive,free media alone makes the idea of working together with one of these groups interesting.




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    cdunlop wrote:
    Two days ago,I had a conversation with one of Va beach's finest. he told me that it is now illegal to carry a hand gun OPEN in Va Beach. He stated that is was ok in Norfolk, but Not Va Beach. I tried to explain state preemption; but he said, that the department had just told all officers to stop anyone Open carrying. I asked him what he would do if he came across an open carried person, he stated that they would be detained and the firearm would have its SN # ran and recorded. This aggravated me to no end, but I was not going to get into it with him. Has anything changed to state preemption laws I don't know about?
    Please get this over to VCDL



    DC

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    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    "Tidewater departments apparently need serious reeducation on the issues"

    vrwmiller: Agreed. It would help if all of the folksinvolved in these incidents in the Tidewater areawould contact VCDL and/or Philip Van Cleave every time they are hassled. Otherwise, one has to wonder about the veracity of some of these claims. Most are legit, undoubtedly - but if I was wronged, it wouldn't suffice to gripe about it on a message board when an organization exists dedicated to these issues.
    These most recent events have me wondering as well. In January, the MCPD violated the rights of seven gun carrying citizens. VCDL took action immediately. Over the last several weeks, there has been reports of civil rights violations all over the tidewater region. So, either noone has bothered to let VCDL know or there are some other mitigating circumstances that prevent VCDL from jumping in.

    Here are some questions I have regarding reporting incidents to VCDL and whether or not VCDL provides support...

    1) When and how does VCDL decide to become involved in citizen incidents where LE has confronted them and/or violated that citizen's civil rights?
    2) Is there certain criteria and/or circumstances that must exist before VCDL will engage?
    3) At what level does VCDL engage, when necessary?

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    I can speak only for myself and about my experience with VCDL. I have no idea if VCDL has a formal protocol in these matters.

    In my case, I posted a comment aboutan incident in Henrico to packing.org. Several people gave me advice, ranging from sensible to not-so-sensible. I already was a (very quiet) member of VCDL. Several people suggested I contact Philip. I sent an email tothe email address on the VCDL web-siteand asked for Philip's fax # to send him over a copy of the written statement I had justfaxed and mailedto internal affairs.Philip called me and we talked briefly about the incident and what I had done so far, then we talked 2 or 3 more times over the next week or two as we both worked on different aspects of the same issue. Philip gave somefriendly advice, but never was pushy.He was very respectful of my need for privacy due to company regulations (I didn't want individualized publicity of any sort).Istrongly believe that my report to the PD was taken more seriously and the resolution to my complaint more to my liking because ofPhilip's behind-the-scenes contact witha major and then later with the Chief.

    That's why I don't understand when people don't think to involve VCDL. Many of these things can be successfully resolved with a few phone calls and a little pressure.

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    I'd say this would be a good time for people that actually live, and vote, in Va. Beach to attend some city council meetings while open carrying. I had considered just going myself. But I don't thinka lone person from Chesapeake would have much impact on the council members.

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    VCDL is aware of the issues "down south". Several of the VCDL EM's have commented here on the board and participated in discussion. I have also heard from one of the EM's that VCDL is actively working on the VB and NPD issues "behind the scenes" for the moment.

    If past history repeats itself, it may be a few weeks before VCDL makes any public statement concerning these issues. This gives the leadership time to discuss and sort out what happened, and talk with the authorities to try and resolve things "the easy way". Another reason for the delay is the person(s) "wronged" may be considering legal action. This was the case in the Staunton incident last year which happened in July but was mentioned in an Oct VA-Alert.


    I knew of the incident from the time it happened, but did not bring it up on
    VA-ALERT because at least one VCDL member was contemplating taking
    legal action at the time.
    The next VCDL meeting may provide more info, sometimes PVC puts out info at the meetings not yet ready for prime time dissemination.


  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Cdunlop or somebody should do a FOIA demanding all memos, orders, directives, and policys of the VBPD regarding OC. It does help VCDL out if some of this legwork is taken care of beforehand.

  11. #11
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    Some points to consider:
    1. VCDL is a grass-roots group. In many regards, they are a information distribution mechanism and rallier of support. They want members to come out in numbers when issues come up. Politicans look at two things: money/contributions and public involvement.
    2. Per recent VA-Alerts, VCDL is having some growing pains. They are managing 3000 members with ~30 PT volunteers. I suspect the BGG-I and BGG-II events have been taxing as well.
    3. One other thing to remember, VCDL is an all volunteer organization. Unlike the NRA, Brady Campaign, NAACP, ACLU, etc, they don't have a paid staff that's sole job is to look out for members and deal with situations.
    4. Many organizations cannot take official action without a vote of the board of directors. I suspect VCDL is the same.
    ---

  12. #12
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    Letter time?

    Commonwealth's Attorney
    Harvey L. Bryant III


    Welcome to thewebsite for the Office of the Commonwealth's Attorney for the City of Virginia Beach, Virginia. Thissite reports on the operations of the office responsible for prosecuting those charged with violating the criminal laws of the Commonwealth in Virginia's largest city.
    I am proud to lead the 90 dedicated men and women who help prepare and prosecute approximately 16,000 cases per year before 22 judges.

    Please feel free to contact me via my Executive Assistant at (757) 385-8641 or submit questions, including your name and phone number via email to Executive Assistant.

    Contact Information:
    Judicial
    2425 Nimmo Pkwy.
    Judicial Center, Bldg. 10B
    Virginia Beach, VA 23456
    Direct: (757) 385-4401
    ocaadmin@oca.vbgov.com

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    Ok......you guys in the Tidewater area....Bob just gave you the information you need.

    NOW...........LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD. TIME TO WALK THE WALK AND NOT TALK THE TALK

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    VAspringer wrote:
    Ok......you guys in the Tidewater area....Bob just gave you the information you need.

    NOW...........LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD. TIME TO WALK THE WALK AND NOT TALK THE TALK
    Put away your pom-poms VAspringer, we don't need cheerleaders....write your own letter, this cancer is spreading....

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Just want to say that before we fire letters off, we really should confirm this policy.
    After all it could just be one seriously misinformed cop.

  16. #16
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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Put away your pom-poms VAspringer, we don't need cheerleaders....write your own letter, this cancer is spreading....
    ???

    Some need a little push to get moving. I hope that is what he was trying to do, and I don't think he was trying to insult.

  17. #17
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    longwatch wrote:
    Just want to say that before we fire letters off, we really should confirm this policy.
    After all it could just be one seriously misinformed cop.
    Or someone pushing how he feels.

  18. #18
    ccloud43
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    cdunlop wrote:
    Two days ago,I had a conversation with one of Va beach's finest. he told me that it is now illegal to carry a hand gun OPEN in Va Beach. He stated that is was ok in Norfolk, but Not Va Beach. I tried to explain state preemption; but he said, that the department had just told all officers to stop anyone Open carrying. I asked him what he would do if he came across an open carried person, he stated that they would be detained and the firearm would have its SN # ran and recorded. This aggravated me to no end, but I was not going to get into it with him. Has anything changed to state preemption laws I don't know about?
    Ok the problem I have with this is that according to this LEO,OC'ing is illegal, but all the police will do is DETAIN you and run the SN. It seems to methat the police would ARREST you if you did something illegal. Especially if you broke the law concerning firearms. LEO 229 help me out here

  19. #19
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    Well I do not live in VA beach anymore. Up in North VA but I would take a walk into the VA Beach Police Station if I was still down there.

    To me going in person and speaking with the Chief or next superior officer in the office to sort this out is the best option. Need to figure out if they made this a "company policy" or just a "rogue officer."

    From there a letter would also back this up as well as VCDL.

  20. #20
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    VA BEACH, BOARDWALK BEACH WALK.

    Who is with me. I open carry ok.




    You Like?

  21. #21
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    cdunlop wrote:
    Two days ago,I had a conversation with one of Va beach's finest. he told me that it is now illegal to carry a hand gun OPEN in Va Beach. He stated that is was ok in Norfolk, but Not Va Beach. I tried to explain state preemption; but he said, that the department had just told all officers to stop anyone Open carrying. I asked him what he would do if he came across an open carried person, he stated that they would be detained and the firearm would have its SN # ran and recorded. This aggravated me to no end, but I was not going to get into it with him. Has anything changed to state preemption laws I don't know about?
    (sarcasm) -- Maybe VBPD just mean, it's OK to Open Carry, there's nothing wrong with a friendly chat & detention?

    I will be visiting July 20th through the 23rd... and plan to OC when biking around the beach area (I hate going on the "actual beach", but 4 days of biking is great exercise & fun)

    Anyone close by in VA Beach that will visit me in jail over the weekend?

  22. #22
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    Scheetz wrote:
    ...Who is with me. I open carry ok.
    Oh crap - spit my beer AGAIN!


  23. #23
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    Arghhh. My eyes:shock:

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    longwatch wrote:
    Arghhh. My eyes:shock:
    I have long ago learned to wear sunglasses and keep eyewash handy when browsing the forum...

  25. #25
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    "please get this over to VCDL..."
    "contact VCDL.."
    "have you been in touch with VCDL?"

    HEY! ARE YOU MEMBERS? If not, SHAME ON YOU!

    VCDL is NOT the NRA. VCDL doesn't have a room full of attorneys just waiting for you call.

    SURE, send an e-mail if things go wrong, or even if they go right after a fashion.

    HOWEVER, if you are going to carry openly, KNOW THE LAW! When you are approached by a STUPID COP, stand your ground. Ask him under what section of code he is going to charge you. Ask him under what section of code he is going to detain you and check your S/N. Ask him under what section of code he has any right to check your S/N.

    There are many other things you can ask, but you get the point (I hope).

    If you are not willing to know your rights, to know the law, and to stand up for yourself, you have no business carrying openly.

    Why is it OK to stir up a mess, then just call an all volunteer group to fix the problem you caused?


    Hey, if you are arrested, you can buy a new house!

    JOIN VCDL! IT IS CHEAP!

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