Stupid Question

unrequitedsux · Jul 11, 2007

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Tess wrote:

I believe that they've never had the competitive thrill of shooting paper and metal objects in pursuit of the coveted bullseye, accuracy, skill and speed.

-but there are plenty ofother safer alternatives.

What safer alternatives are there to shooting paper or metal objects in the pursuit of the bullseye, accuracy, skill, and speed. How else would you attain those objectives?

darts? lol

There are a few threads, and a complete section, on why carry openly. To answer your questions on why, please see those threads first. If you still have questions, I believe many here would answer you.

I carry for protection of myself and my family. I would use my weapon to protect bystanders or innocents; at least that's what I've trained myself for, and I would hope I could follow through at the appropriate time.

-i agree protect yourself and family, and if the time comes i hope you are trained enough for the situation.

I carry openly for a few reasons, most of which I've detailed in the threads mentioned above.

Bulldog1967 · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

We could all agree that guns scare people or at least people who do not have one.do the generalized population of oc'ing people feel a bit of power over the uninformed,unarmed,and the law enforcement population in general?

“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.”
–Sigmund Freud

unrequitedsux · Jul 11, 2007

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for those who care, here is what your satellite is posting.

topic:

Gunman tries to storm Sears Tower! Well sort of...

actual fact:

56yr old woman didnt know the law and had a gun in her purse while passing through a security checkpoint.

pursued result: if chicago had CC or OC people could have defended themselves.

attainted result: lol

Pa. Patriot · Jul 11, 2007

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Tess wrote:

There are a few threads, and a complete section, on why carry openly. To answer your questions on why, please see those threads first.

ditto

If you still have questions, I believe many here would answer you.

Not if you ask like a troll though.
You didn't answer my questions on why you would ask they way you did so we can only assume your here to be an ass, not to ask honest questions.

unrequitedsux · Jul 11, 2007

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questions in the form of a debate. yes i do tend to lean towards one side on some issues, that is why i have questions on why some people do them.

rlh2005 · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

when i see the oc'ing its pretty much a chance for the wouldbe "bad person" to know exactly who to take out, who to take the gun from.

wouldnt cc'ing have a much better purpose in society? would be less intrusive to the other population, would have the element of surprise in a bad situation. would also provide some sexy bulkage.

OC shouldn't require any more situational awareness than CC. Adults should be aware of their surroundings at all times when in public.

Better purpose, less intrusive: I'm not sure. I believe, historically, open carry was more prevalent and concealed carry was frowned upon because you're hiding something. Generally, people trust what they see and know and they fear the hidden and unknown. Look at the most states' weapon laws: CC requires a permit while OC doesn't.

And I don't believe my gun makes my 25# overweightness look sexier. I'll have to ask the wife.

Citizen · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

56yr old woman didnt know the law and had a gun in her purse while passing through a security checkpoint.

pursued result: if chicago had CC or OC people could have defended themselves.

attainted result: lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! YOU IDIOT!!!!

The pursued result was that if there were a national uniform reciprocity for firearm permits, she wouldn't have been arrested. Hers from Tenn(?) would have been recognized byIllinois.

I'm sorry. Your biases are showing in your posts. Please don't lie that you "are just asking questions." They're attacks camoflaged underfalse civility.

longwatch · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

rlh2005 wrote:

unrequitedsux wrote:

well there must be some power advantage with oc'ing rather than cc'ing. am i missing something?

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I liken OC vs CC to torque vs horsepower in an automobile. Torque and horsepower both represent a vehicles power but in different ways. An engine tuned to produce more torque can haul heavier weights while the same engine tuned for horsepower will have a higher top speed. Each has its place and purpose.

In some situations, CC is better since given the element of unknown and surprise. In other situations, OC has the advantage of strong presence. (These a just some examples). Again, each has its place and purpose.

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when i see the oc'ing its pretty much a chance for the wouldbe "bad person" to know exactly who to take out, who to take the gun from.

wouldnt cc'ing have a much better purpose in society? would be less intrusive to the other population, would have the element of surprise in a bad situation. would also provide some sexy bulkage.

It also lets the criminal know exactly who to stay away from. Which goes to the so called element of surprise. I would rather never have to draw because a criminal was scared away than have to use the element of surprise. Drawing from concealment is a risky proposition, because if you are justified in doing so it means your life is in danger. Whatever the threat is, there is a fair chance it will be executed against the concealed carrier when drawing. Open carry by being an actual deterent, eliminates much of that risk.

As for being less obtrusive, sure it would but most people don't notice an openly carried handgun anyhow.

Pa. Patriot · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

questions in the form of a debate. yes i do tend to lean towards one side on some issues, that is why i have questions on why some people do them.

And your obviously too imature to realize that asking them like you did (a childish ass) is not likely to get replies. I'm surprised you got any replies, honestly.

danbus · Jul 11, 2007

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when i see the oc'ing its pretty much a chance for the wouldbe "bad person" to know exactly who to take out, who to take the gun from.

wouldnt cc'ing have a much better purpose in society? would be less intrusive to the other population, would have the element of surprise in a bad situation. would also provide some sexy bulkage.

1. And there's a greater chance of you becoming a target because you appear not armed.

2. You be sure to write a letter to your local PD and tell them it's better for society if the LEOs CC'd.

3. Bad drivers, people who talk on cell phones, racist people, criminals, etc are intrusive to the other population, the "other" population being us good guys.

A criminal gets away with a crime agaisnt a unarmed citizen, a criminal gets shot by a CCing citizen, and a criminal doesn't bother me when I OC.

Question for you, when did you see someone OC?

Also, are you asking actual questions or just making suggestive statements?

cs9c1 · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

well there must be some power advantage with oc'ing rather than cc'ing. am i missing something?

No, I do not think so.

For me it is a matter of convenience. When it is 95+ outside it is a lot more comfortable to OC. Plus I tend to like to tuck in my shirts which unless I wear anIWB holster or a jacket OC is again the best option.

I can and do CC, when it tactically makes sense. Large groups, tight or close contact with others, etc..

cs9c1 · Jul 11, 2007

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danbus wrote:

Also, are you asking actual questions or just making suggestive statements?

It sure looks like an agenda is being pushed.

Tomahawk · Jul 11, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

We could all agree that guns scare people or at least people who do not have one.do the generalized population of oc'ing people feel a bit of power over the uninformed,unarmed,and the law enforcement population in general?

Your username implies that you and unrequitted know each other from another forum and that you followed him here and decided to harass him and all of us.

This makes you a troll in my mind. Perhaps you could ask the mod if you can change your name.

infopro411 · Jul 11, 2007

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when i OC with wilsun tactical it has laser and mx3000 attached. i am better informed and know better than others.

Wooley · Jul 11, 2007

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You're deffinately something more than others...

AbNo · Jul 12, 2007

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All right, I've taken this to their home turf.

http://forums.gamehavoc.com/showthread.php?p=300685

What's going on here at OCDO almost counts as a forum invasion.

Bob, Mike, think you can talk to Ferret or Kael over there about this?

Judging by the words of the posts, I'm going to say it's either Tech, J.A.C., The Shaft, or Dr. Wattson.

Based on other cues (grammar, punctuation, capitalization), I'm going to say it's Tech.

Do I win?

Edit: Done! Thanks, Ferret!

72Malibu · Jul 12, 2007

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unrequitedsux wrote:

72Malibu wrote:

I believe that they've never had the competitive thrill of shooting paper and metal objects in pursuit of the coveted bullseye, accuracy, skill and speed.

Click to expand...

-but there are plenty ofother safer alternatives.

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I also believe that they live in denial... that "it can't happen to me". They have a false sense of security that "No Guns Allowed" signs are going to make people bent on causing death and destruction stop and think "Man! I sure don't want to go to jail for trespassing and firearm related crimesafter I'm done killing a few dozen people and myself".

Click to expand...

-i dont know about this.

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I feel no power over the uninformed, unarmed and law enforcement population. I feel like I and my family are better protected by me owning and carrying a firearm. I feel bad for the uninformed and want to teach them. I feel bad for the unarmed and want to protect them. I feel allied with the police in that I would be able to assist in saving lives should someone threaten people around me and myself, or attack us.

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-this is the part i have most problems with. why do you feel bad for people who dont carry a gun? why do you have an obligation that they need your protection? and how does oc'ing compare to cc'ing, i mean why do you have to oc to protect everyone?

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I feel bad for the lemmings willing to run off of the edge of a cliff screaming "I won't die" until the fall abruptly ends.

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-odd.

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- i do not agree with that you put yourself over everyone who doesnt own a gun, i do not agree with that you think a gun is the ultimate protection, i do not agree that because you are uninformed about opencarry you will jump off a cliff.

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a) As Tess said: Safer alternatives? Safer things to shoot at or, safer alternatives to shooting period?

b) You don't know about what? Peoples' "It can't happen to me", violent offenders disregarding anti-firearms policies, or a legally armed citizen defending himself and others against a violent offender?

I'm sure many of the students/professors at VT thought it couldn't happen to them. Cho obviously disregarded VTs anti-firearms policy which prevented students and faculty from legally carrying a firearm on campus. There have been students involved in that incident who have CC permits and weren't able to defend themselves because they followed campus policy. You don't think it would have turned out differently if this student had been armed that day?

c) I don't feel bad for people who don't carry a gun. I feel badfor people who are anti-gun and think that nobody should have them because they are naiive to think that cooperation with a violent offender is always going to end well. I do feel bad for people who are victims of violent crime who didn't have gun to defend themselves if having one would have saved them from death or grievous harm.

If I were in a situation where I saw someone threatened in a manner that would warrant use of deadly force to stop it, I would want to step in and defend them. If it were you and you were the one being threatened, and you saw me passing by, would you rather I just keep walking and ignore it as though it wasn't my problem? Or would you rather that I, out of compassion for you, someone I may have never met or even talked to, step in and defend you?

How does OC compare to CC? Well, OC is exposed and clearly visible. CC is concealed and out of sight.

In seriousness, there are times when I don't have my CC permit on me and want to carry, I can't legally conceal without my permit and identification on my person. In restaurants that serve alcohol for on-site consumption, I cannot legally conceal my firearm while in the establishment. If you don't like OC, then join the fight to help us overturn the restaurant ban and get rid of CC permits so that like some other states, if we can legally purchase a firearm, we can legally carry it in any way we see fit, more than likely for most people it would be concealed and you may see less OC, and since criminals would believe more people are armed, be less willing to attack someone in fear they may be packing concealed heat.

OC and CC is a personal preference. In your response to my post it seems more like you were focusing on OC than legal ownership/concealed carry, so Im' guessing that you just have a problem with OC in general. OC is a personal preference. As it's been said, would you rather all LEOs conceal? Are you going to be afraid of someone whether they're OCing and you know that they're armed, or they're CCing and you can't be sure? I personally have a CC permit and CC most of the time where I legally can. A lot of people in here don't yet have their permit or can't get it because of a misdemeanor on their record or something of the like (i.e. reckless driving). Not a violent crime or something that means the person wouldn't be a sensible firearms owner (just a reckless driver). Or they don't want to jump through all the hoops the antis have put in place, so they OC because it's legal and you don't have to go through all the red tape.

c) Obviously you didn't catch my analogy in my "lemmings" comment. I'm guessing you weren't thinking in the same context as I was. I see the "lemmings" as people who all band together with the "guns are bad, mmkay?" attitude who are willing to take away peoples' ability to protect themselves to make them feel safer, when in reality, it makes them more vulnerable. If someone doesn't want to carry a gun, fine, don't restrict my ability to do so when I'm perfectly legal, competant and stable to do so and could potentially defend you as a 3rd party. The lemmings comment was geard mostly for anti gun people in general, not merely focused on OC.

and finally d) I do NOT feel like I'm above anybody who doesn't own/carry a gun. I just feel better protected. I don't believe that a gun is the ultimate protection either. It's merely an explosive charge that fires a metal projectile around 1300fps. BUT, it is protection, and more powerful than my fists, pocketknife or anything within my reach should my wits and awareness of my surroundings fail to keep my family and myself safe.

Finally, the obvious question... why do you care whether people OC? Are you afraid of an inanimate object, that it will come to life on it's own and start spraying bullets everywhere? Why do you come to an open carry forum and question open carry? I don't go around to automotive forums, religious forums, or any other forums and question why they feel the need to drive a 2ton self-powered projectile that can and has killed more people than firearms. I don't go to religious forums and question/try to discredit their beliefs? There are things I don't agree with, some very strongly, but I'm not going to go to a forum dedicated to them and start trying to "make a difference" by questioning them. I'm smart enough to realize that it would be as effective as urinating on a house fire. To each their own. There are things I see every day that make me uncomfortable and that I don't agree with. It makes me uncomfortable to see 2 grown men holding hands or kissing, to be around people who are illegally in the country and don't make any effort to speak english. Those are my opinions and my own perceptions, and I don't expect people to bend to my will, but to respect my views as I respect theirs. I respect your opinions and that you're uncomfortable with OC, or that you disagree with it. That's fine, those are your views. I wouldn't try to force anybody to carry a gun. But, when it comes to the point where they're infringing on my rights and the welfare/protection of me and my family, then I have a major problem with it. But, I see you coming in here and complaining about OC as fruitless. You're not going to have people in here second-guessing themselves and thinking "Oh MAN, I'd better stop OCing right this instant!".

I think that you have a hidden agenda in being here. To see if we're a bunch of uneducated yokels swinging from chandeliers and shooting holes everywhere. Many of us in here have college degrees and advanced degrees. I've had the privelege of meeting people in here who are very generous, kind hearted and upstanding people that I would trust. If someone doesn't like something that's clearly visible on my hip, too bad. I don't like bluetooth ear pieces. I personally despise them and would love to go up and "dis-audio" every person I see/hear talking on them, but hey, it's 100% legal for them to own them, carry them and use them and it's their preference to have one. I'm not going to infringe on it, I don't like it, but I'm not going to piss and moan about it, just live with it. Personally, I think they're dangerous in a car. Regardless of whether your hands are free or not, just engaging in a telephone conversation has been proven to dramatically lower awareness. So, you have someone operating a 2 ton projectile at 25-70+ mph who isn't paying attention to where they're going or who's in their sights.

Sorry for the long winded post. I'll get to work now.

ferret · Jul 12, 2007

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While I understand why you are in arms, AnBo, please understand this wasn't about just guns, and a good deal of it was a personal fight between Tech/Doc and Unrequited (Also known as SK or SuperKermit). At least in my eyes.

I wouldn't call a single user taking things too far a "forum invasion", especially when Unrequited has linked your forums before and invited people there. While definately inappropriate, I have every confidence your moderators can handle Tech in a manner they see fit.

As for our side, SK/Unrequited, Doc, and Tech have all been spoken to privately about this matter. If you feel this needs further work on my end, then please contact me privately.

As this thread serves no further purpose, I'm closing it.

I felt the need to reply here, since members of this forum have come to mine demanding action. The above was my final reply before closingthe thread on my forum that led to this. The individuals involved have already been warned that furthering their personal fight will result in bans, in fact that warning occured before I was made aware of this situation over here.

Anyone who feels I need to take further action is welcome to contact me.

As a final note, yes, "Unrequitedsux" is Tech

dng · Jul 12, 2007

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Seems to me that it is very evident that we have a troll (and a big green ugly one, too) Time to close up shop andlock up the thread. The members on here have better things to do than argue with someone who just wants to cause trouble. Go back to your old forum, Tech. We have plenty of trolls already.

AbNo · Jul 12, 2007

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ferret wrote:

While I understand why you are in arms, AnBo, please understand this wasn't about just guns, and a good deal of it was a personal fight between Tech/Doc and Unrequited (Also known as SK or SuperKermit). At least in my eyes.

I wouldn't call a single user taking things too far a "forum invasion", especially when Unrequited has linked your forums before and invited people there. While definately inappropriate, I have every confidence your moderators can handle Tech in a manner they see fit.

As for our side, SK/Unrequited, Doc, and Tech have all been spoken to privately about this matter. If you feel this needs further work on my end, then please contact me privately.

As this thread serves no further purpose, I'm closing it.

Click to expand...

I felt the need to reply here, since members of this forum have come to mine demanding action. The above was my final reply before closing the thread on my forum that led to this. The individuals involved have already been warned that furthering their personal fight will result in bans, in fact that warning occured before I was made aware of this situation over here.

Anyone who feels I need to take further action is welcome to contact me.

As a final note, yes, "Unrequitedsux" is Tech

Thank you, Ferret. Sorry to have to bring the trouble BACK to your neighborhood...

And woohoo! I guessed right! :celebrate

Wait... who's "AnBo"?

:lol:

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