OPEN CARRY IN MICHIGAN

apjonas · Jul 29, 2007

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Actually this section does not "deal with" OC. It "deals with" possession. It doesn't matter whether the firearm is concealed or not. There is really no structural difference in the law between OC and CC.

Open Carry is permitted everywhere except where prohibited by statute but further subject to exceptions to this prohibition.

Concealed Carry is permitted everywhere except where prohibited by statute but further subject to exceptions to this prohibition.

In both case OC/CC is permitted:

Michigan - prohibitions + exceptions to prohibitions = legal carry space. Now the details differ between the two but the starting point and process are the same.

Jared wrote:

Here is the law dealing with open carry

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
------------------------------------------------------------------

There it is, this has been discussed before, Lonnie and I do not know how much clearer this can get. The above section of law does NOT deal with CPL's. It deals with open carry. If you have a permit from ANY state (does not have to be home-state like it does with CCW) you can open carry anywhere.

Open carry is legal without a permit, UNLESS you carry into any of the places listed above. The places listed above are off-limits UNLESS you have a license to carry a concealed weapon from ANY state.

The law isn't even silent on the matter as it is in Virginia, in Michigan it actually says so in black and white.

I don't care what some sheriff's or some PD's think. This isn't Mexico, you do not make up laws as you go along. If people are serious about OC'ing and think they will get in trouble then sent a polite letter to the city attorney and police chief explaining that what you are doing is legal and you expect nothing more then being asked to show any states CCW permit if you are open carrying into an otherwise prohibited place.

If you want to open carry, go for it. If you want to CCW then if you still want to carry into pistol free zones (assuming you are not exempt) then simply uncover your pistol and enter these places.

Saying it can't be done is hogwash. Look at the resistance Pacific Northwest Open Carry got with Portland and Seattle as well as other cities, many of them turned around when the proper steps were taken. There is no reason people in Michigan can not do the same, you can not be penalized when you break no law, it's actually that simple.

Keep in mind, vehicle carry is dealt with under 750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
Sec. 227

Leader · Aug 1, 2007

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"And you can also show them this one, which specifically allows transportation of loaded pistols in vehicles:

750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating § 312.10(1)(g).

Sec. 227c.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded."

.

glock36 wrote:

see now i would take that as saying as long as its a pistol you can transport it without a permit inside your vehicle.

but this seems to contradict that:

750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any
length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her
person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling
house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a
vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed
by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or
manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a
fine of not more than $2,500.00.

Confusing

This says you CAN'T carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle. It also points out the exception of a loaded pistol WITH a CPL. If you don't have a CPL, you CAN'T have a loaded pistol either.

At NO time for any reason, with or without any kind of a permit,you can"t have a loaded rifle or shotgun in (or on) a vehicle.

Jared · Aug 2, 2007

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apjonas wrote:

Actually this section does not "deal with" OC. It "deals with" possession. It doesn't matter whether the firearm is concealed or not. There is really no structural difference in the law between OC and CC.

Open Carry is permitted everywhere except where prohibited by statute but further subject to exceptions to this prohibition.

Concealed Carry is permitted everywhere except where prohibited by statute but further subject to exceptions to this prohibition.

In both case OC/CC is permitted:

Michigan - prohibitions + exceptions to prohibitions = legal carry space. Now the details differ between the two but the starting point and process are the same.

You need to read the law. The restrictions dealing with concealed pistols only apply to.... concealed pistols; therefore, these are the only restrictions that apply to open carry (unless you have a permit) and these would never apply to CCW anyway because if you have a CPL then this law does not apply to you as you would only have to worry about the CPL law.

If I'm not making any sense, please tell me so I can somehow further clarify this.

SGT_Bill · Sep 27, 2007

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

glock36 wrote:

Does anyone know where i can find in the law that open carry is legal in Michigan. ive been asked to show the law by a friend and im not sure where to start.

thanks

Click to expand...

From MCRGrg

[align=left]You were quoted as saying 'open-carry' was still legal in Michigan. I am in possession of a CPL, now but I cannot find any reference to open-carry in my copy of the Michigan Firearms Laws. Please clarify. What is open-carry? When does it apply as compared to my CPL?

A:

In the 19th century, Michigan outlawed the carry of concealed weapons. The rational was that a person could use a concealed pistol in a fight and surprise his or her opponent. That is, a person had a right to know if the other person was armed before getting in a dispute. Michigan has forbidden the carrying of a pistol without a license in a motor vehicle, whether concealed or not, for much the same reason. Poachers who would hunt from cars may very well be the reason that we can only carry our long guns cased or in the truck of an automobile (MCL 324.43513). There are other laws that forbid the carrying of pistols with an unlawful intent (MCL 750.226), and the brandishing of a firearm (MCL 750.234e). Since there are no laws that forbid it, the open carrying of a pistol or other firearm, without unlawful intent and without brandishing, outside of a vehicle is legal.[/align]

[align=left]Also see:[/align]

[align=left]AG Opinions: 3158, 7101 & 7113[/align]

This is correct, except it depends on how much of a prick the judge is for brandishing, which is defined as "diplaying or waving menacingly". Some activist types would consider this to be the case any time it is outside of a holster or case.

Leader · Sep 27, 2007

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SGT_Bill wrote:

SpringerXDacp wrote:

glock36 wrote:

Does anyone know where i can find in the law that open carry is legal in Michigan. ive been asked to show the law by a friend and im not sure where to start.

thanks

Click to expand...

From MCRGrg

[align=left]You were quoted as saying 'open-carry' was still legal in Michigan. I am in possession of a CPL, now but I cannot find any reference to open-carry in my copy of the Michigan Firearms Laws. Please clarify. What is open-carry? When does it apply as compared to my CPL?

A:

In the 19th century, Michigan outlawed the carry of concealed weapons. The rational was that a person could use a concealed pistol in a fight and surprise his or her opponent. That is, a person had a right to know if the other person was armed before getting in a dispute. Michigan has forbidden the carrying of a pistol without a license in a motor vehicle, whether concealed or not, for much the same reason. Poachers who would hunt from cars may very well be the reason that we can only carry our long guns cased or in the truck of an automobile (MCL 324.43513). There are other laws that forbid the carrying of pistols with an unlawful intent (MCL 750.226), and the brandishing of a firearm (MCL 750.234e). Since there are no laws that forbid it, the open carrying of a pistol or other firearm, without unlawful intent and without brandishing, outside of a vehicle is legal.[/align]

[align=left]Also see:[/align]

[align=left]AG Opinions: 3158, 7101 & 7113[/align]

Click to expand...

This is correct, except it depends on how much of a prick the judge is for brandishing, which is defined as "diplaying or waving menacingly". Some activist types would consider this to be the case any time it is outside of a holster or case.

Yah SGT......
This is what is being threatened but I haven't been able to find an example of it actually happening. It seems that Cities are more worried about being sued for arresting someone for doing NOTHING wrong then trying to scare people into giving up their rights.

muledoe · Sep 28, 2007

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if you OC in MI, you will get arrest and most likely get convicted as well. I am a law student and ask several of my teachers about this topic. All of them said that you will get arrest no matter what. Pretty much what was said that the supreme court has not made a decision on that matter. It will be up to the county or the city to make the decision. And more than likely you will be convicted. Cant just walk around with a gun. Believe me i want too that is the reason why i ask. Id rather much OC then CC. But i dont want to push my luck.

If anyone here, downriver area OC or would like meet up that would be fun.
And has anyone really OC without problem from police in a populate area such as detroit, dearborn, southgate, lincoln park areas?

If im wrong please correct me, i will even send my teachers the law on the books to show him.

67390FE · Sep 28, 2007

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I have and do OC in Romulus, Jackson, Lansing, East Lansing and (gasp) even in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Romulus is the closest I usually get to Detroit so I haven't had the chance to OC in Detroityet. To make a blanket statement that if you get caught OCing in the state you will be arrested is not correct. There is a lot more to this state than Detroit. I will admit, however,that the larger the city, the more their citizens show alarm at an OCer.

It has been said many times here, the law states what is illegal, not what is legal.

Interestingly enough I have found one reference to legality ofOC on lands controlled by Michigan Department of Natural resources.

[align=center]Excerpt from Public Act No. 130 (emphasis added)

[align=center]Sec. 504.
(3) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department. [/align]
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2003-2004/publicact/htm/2004-PA-0130.htm
[/align]

muledoe · Sep 28, 2007

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67390FE wrote:

I have and do OC in Romulus, Jackson, Lansing, East Lansing and (gasp) even in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Romulus is the closest I usually get to Detroit so I haven't had the chance to OC in Detroityet. To make a blanket statement that if you get caught OCing in the state you will be arrested is not correct. There is a lot more to this state than Detroit. I will admit, however,that the larger the city, the more their citizens show alarm at an OCer.

It has been said many times here, the law states what is illegal, not what is legal.

Interestingly enough I have found one reference to legality ofOC on lands controlled by Michigan Department of Natural resources.

[align=center]Excerpt from Public Act No. 130 (emphasis added)

[align=center]Sec. 504.
(3) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department. [/align]
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2003-2004/publicact/htm/2004-PA-0130.htm

[/align]

your from downriver? we should hang out sometime go to the range if you like maybe try OC around here. I would love to OC, like i said before im scared.

apjonas · Sep 28, 2007

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-Glock19 wrote:

As has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, there are no laws allowing any behavior, only laws prohibiting that behavior. For instance, there is no law that says you can wear a red shirt on Fridays because unless prohibited by statute you can do what you want.

Not so fast...

MCL 955.001 Shirts, red; wearing; penalty.

Sec. 001.

(1) A person, except in his dwelling home or place of business, shall not wear or attempt to wear a red shirt on Friday, unless participating in a varsity football scrimmage. For purposes of this section red includes scarlet, burgundy, vermillion, crimson, carmine, or any other shade containing a red value on the RGB scale of greater that 225, unless the Blue and/or Green values exceed the Red Value or if such values do not exceed the Red value, they have a value no less than 15 points below the red value. This paragraph shall not apply if the red shirt is so colored from human blood as the result of any criminal act.

(2) A person shall not wear a red shirt in a vehicle without a red shirt license as provided by law and if so licensed, shall not wear the shirt in a place or manner inconsistent withany restrictions upon such license. No shall he wear such a shirt in combination with any pants or trousers that cause his wife to say "You're not going to wear those together, are you?"

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or by a fine of not more than $200.00 or both. However such punishment shall be suspended if the shirt was worn simply to piss off University of Michigan fans during the game with Ohio State.

Leader · Sep 29, 2007

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muledoe wrote:

if you OC in MI, you will get arrest and most likely get convicted as well. I am a law student and ask several of my teachers about this topic. All of them said that you will get arrest no matter what. Pretty much what was said that the supreme court has not made a decision on that matter. It will be up to the county or the city to make the decision. And more than likely you will be convicted. Cant just walk around with a gun. Believe me i want too that is the reason why i ask. Id rather much OC then CC. But i dont want to push my luck.

If anyone here, downriver area OC or would like meet up that would be fun.
And has anyone really OC without problem from police in a populate area such as detroit, dearborn, southgate, lincoln park areas?

If im wrong please correct me, i will even send my teachers the law on the books to show him.

As a law student, you should KNOW that being arrested for NOT violateing any laws is aginst the law in Michigan.

If your teachers say you WILL get arrested just for open carry, have them show you just ONE example of this happening in the last 50 years here in Michigan. If they can't, then ask them what they base their statement on.

muledoe · Sep 29, 2007

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Leader wrote:

muledoe wrote:

if you OC in MI, you will get arrest and most likely get convicted as well. I am a law student and ask several of my teachers about this topic. All of them said that you will get arrest no matter what. Pretty much what was said that the supreme court has not made a decision on that matter. It will be up to the county or the city to make the decision. And more than likely you will be convicted. Cant just walk around with a gun. Believe me i want too that is the reason why i ask. Id rather much OC then CC. But i dont want to push my luck.

If anyone here, downriver area OC or would like meet up that would be fun.
And has anyone really OC without problem from police in a populate area such as detroit, dearborn, southgate, lincoln park areas?

If im wrong please correct me, i will even send my teachers the law on the books to show him.

Click to expand...

As a law student, you should KNOW that being arrested for NOT violateing any laws is aginst the law in Michigan.

If your teachers say you WILL get arrested just for open carry, have them show you just ONE example of this happening in the last 50 years here in Michigan. If they can't, then ask them what they base their statement on.

wasnt there a man in macomb county that was arrested a convitec for OC around in public????

all of the teachers are ex cops, they are just telling me what they would do if still on the job. Im sure its up to the cop, and most cops are asses i guess and will hassel you

are u from MI?

Leader · Sep 29, 2007

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wasnt there a man in macomb county that was arrested a convitec for OC around in public????

Not that I know of. I really don't understand how he could be convicted of doing something that was and is legal.

all of the teachers are ex cops, they are just telling me what they would do if still on the job. Im sure its up to the cop, and most cops are asses i guess and will hassel you

I have a hard time believeing that teachers that are ex cops would say something as stupid as this.

are u from MI?

Yes I am from MI and I will be open carrying in Romulus within the next hour or so. As I have in the past with NO problems.

muledoe · Sep 29, 2007

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Leader wrote:

wasnt there a man in macomb county that was arrested a convitec for OC around in public????

Not that I know of. I really don't understand how he could be convicted of doing something that was and is legal.

all of the teachers are ex cops, they are just telling me what they would do if still on the job. Im sure its up to the cop, and most cops are asses i guess and will hassel you

I have a hard time believeing that teachers that are ex cops would say something as stupid as this.

are u from MI?

Yes I am from MI and I will be open carrying in Romulus within the next hour or so. As I have in the past with NO problems.

we should hang out, i am about 15 min to you...we can go to the range and what not...maybe OC cause i would like to as well but fear it.

"The open carry is a very, very little known fact and thats why you will never see anyone openly carrying a firearm.........in fact I mentioned that to a friend who is a reserve police officer in Roseville and he was shocked. He had absolutely no idea that we have the legal right to openly carry a firearm........

That being the case, I'm not about to create a stir by exercising my right. I do have common sense......"

that is takin from a nother site. kind of makes sense. LIke i said i dont have the balls to OC lol...but its awesome that you do. Do you only stay in ur city or also around local as well?

mzbk2l · Sep 29, 2007

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Someone needs to click the link below, open the April and May newsletters, and read the "Did you know?" section.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/Legal_Updates_185809_7.pdf

A little insight from the Michigan State Police on open carrying in Michigan.

muledoe · Sep 29, 2007

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thanks for that site.

nextlevelcell · Sep 29, 2007

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thank you..............i will carry a printout at all times with me of all of this info.

Mr_diamond101 · Oct 2, 2007

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If you wereopen carrying in downtowndetroit, and are arrested

how much would you sue for???

Leader · Oct 2, 2007

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Mr_diamond101 wrote:

If you wereopen carrying in downtowndetroit, and are arrested

how much would you sue for???

What was the charge?

Mr_diamond101 · Oct 2, 2007

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Leader wrote:

Mr_diamond101 wrote:

If you wereopen carrying in downtowndetroit, and are arrested

how much would you sue for???

Click to expand...

What was the charge?

carrying without a cpl

Leader · Oct 2, 2007

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Mr_diamond101 wrote:

Leader wrote:

Mr_diamond101 wrote:

If you wereopen carrying in downtowndetroit, and are arrested

how much would you sue for???

Click to expand...

What was the charge?

Click to expand...

carrying without a cpl

That isn't a law, they couldn't charge me with that.

OPEN CARRY IN MICHIGAN

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