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Thread: OC without CC permit - how to drive from place to place?

  1. #1
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    Hi all. I applied for a Washington CC permit the first day I arrived here in June, but for some reason the Sheriff's office in Island County requires me to wait 30 days before I can call to see if the FBI background check has come back so that I can pick up my license. Kind of funny because I know that they come back in only about a 1 week timeframe or less. When I tried calling earlier they didn't admit that they had it, only that I'm not allowed to ask for 30 days. Very strange - seem's a bit more like a rule to create a 30 day waiting period that is not backed up by Washington law.

    But back to my primary question. As I understand it OC is not allowed while in my own vehicle:

    "RCW 9.41.050
    (2): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol"

    Can anyone direct me to the WA law on how to properly carry in vehicle without a CCW permit? I believe I had read somewhere that the WA law states that while in a car I have to carry the gun unloaded in a place where no vehicle passenger can reach it (can't find the code though so not sure on that). If true that brings up 2 questions:

    1) How in the world do I carry an unloaded gun somewhere in my SUV that has NO TRUNK where a passenger can't reach it? Do I have to attach it under the vehicle near the spare tire?
    2) How do you go through the process of getting your unloaded gun & reloading it while in a parking lot without getting unwanted attention from onlookers who call 911 saying some deranged maniac is loading a pistol in the parking lot?

    In Arizona it is much easier - OC with no permit anywhere including home or vehicle, other than the normal restricted areas such as court rooms, jails, bars, etc.

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    swift wrote:
    Hi all. I applied for a Washington CC permit the first day I arrived here in June, but for some reason the Sheriff's office in Island County requires me to wait 30 days before I can call to see if the FBI background check has come back so that I can pick up my license. Kind of funny because I know that they come back in only about a 1 week timeframe or less. When I tried calling earlier they didn't admit that they had it, only that I'm not allowed to ask for 30 days. Very strange - seem's a bit more like a rule to create a 30 day waiting period that is not backed up by Washington law.

    But back to my primary question. As I understand it OC is not allowed while in my own vehicle:

    "RCW 9.41.050
    (2): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol"

    Can anyone direct me to the WA law on how to properly carry in vehicle without a CCW permit? I believe I had read somewhere that the WA law states that while in a car I have to carry the gun unloaded in a place where no vehicle passenger can reach it (can't find the code though so not sure on that). If true that brings up 2 questions:

    1) How in the world do I carry an unloaded gun somewhere in my SUV that has NO TRUNK where a passenger can't reach it? Do I have to attach it under the vehicle near the spare tire?
    2) How do you go through the process of getting your unloaded gun & reloading it while in a parking lot without getting unwanted attention from onlookers who call 911 saying some deranged maniac is loading a pistol in the parking lot?

    In Arizona it is much easier - OC with no permit anywhere including home or vehicle, other than the normal restricted areas such as court rooms, jails, bars, etc.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper


    It does not have to be out of reach. Only unloaded in a closed case.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Thanks!

    Also, does anyone know the law that says what is consered "unloaded" - ie can I place a loaded magazine in the same gun case as the gun, as long as the loaded magazine is not inserted into the gun (& also the gun chamber is empty as well)?

    I know some states say that if you have a loaded magazine near the gun then the gun is considered "loaded" even though it isn't in the gun.

    I did find the below WA law, but I'm not sure if it only applies to the rifles & shotguns being discussed, or if it also applies to pistols:

    RCW 77.15.460 :
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if: (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed. [...] (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.

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    swift wrote:
    Thanks!
    No problem and welcome to the forums.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    30+ days?! It took me 20 minutes from the time I finished the application to the time I walked out the door! Come to Kitsap county and go to the sheriff's station. I have heard everyone walks out of the door within 60 minutes or less with a permit.

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    Wow! Now that's service! I think I'm going to call Island County and complain a bit. Why in the world do island county folks need to wait 30 days when it can be done in 60 minutes? Sounds like a raw deal for Island County residents. Thanks for the info - I'll look into Kitsap County too - only problem is that I already paid my fees to Island County - maybe they'll give me a refund

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    I got mine in 25 days from the date I visited the cop shop (Kirkland PD). I think they may be telling you in a nice way that they have 30 days to have a decision to issue or not, which is BS IMHO. RCW 9.41.070 says they have 30 days to issue, unless you've been a resident less than the previous 90 days or you don't have a valid WA issued ID/DL.

    RCW 9.41.070-
    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.

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    Yeah, it's kind of funny that the law says they have "up to 30 days" but they tell me I can't even call them until after 30 days. Seems like someone in the Island County Sheriff's office doesn't understand the "up to" part. Perhaps they didn't get past the 3rd grade & complete sentences confuse them.

    The up to 60 days for non-residents worries me though - I hope they forgot that I'm not a WA resident, as I won't even be here by the 60 day mark - by then I'll be back in Arizona until my next visit either this Christmas or next summer. They require in-person pick-up so that could make it difficult for me if they decide to do that. Perhaps I won't make a fuss after all - at least not until I get my permit. I only have to wait one more week to hit the required 30 day mark. After I get it, then I'll call & complain.

    Another funny thing - the Washington permit is valid in a lot more states than WA considers valid. For example, AZ recognizes the WA permit even though WA does not recognize the AZ permit. Oh well, can't make sense out of politicians I guess.

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    swift wrote:
    Wow! Now that's service! I think I'm going to call Island County and complain a bit. Why in the world do island county folks need to wait 30 days when it can be done in 60 minutes? Sounds like a raw deal for Island County residents. Thanks for the info - I'll look into Kitsap County too - only problem is that I already paid my fees to Island County - maybe they'll give me a refund
    It's not just Island County that gets screwed. I'm a King County resident who applied for my permit at the Bothell station. It took me 28 days to get my CPL. My wife applied there almost two weeks ago and, no permit in the mail yet!

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    Applied at Burien Sherrif's Precinct, took 3 weeks. My co-worker applied at the Bothell precinct and he got his in 5 days. 28 days must have sucked.

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    swift wrote:
    Thanks!

    Also, does anyone know the law that says what is consered "unloaded" - ie can I place a loaded magazine in the same gun case as the gun, as long as the loaded magazine is not inserted into the gun (& also the gun chamber is empty as well)?

    I know some states say that if you have a loaded magazine near the gun then the gun is considered "loaded" even though it isn't in the gun.

    I did find the below WA law, but I'm not sure if it only applies to the rifles & shotguns being discussed, or if it also applies to pistols:

    RCW 77.15.460 :
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if: (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed. [...] (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.
    #5 is what you want to look at. Thus a "firearm" (this would include any), is not loaded if the magazine is not in the firearm. I put my sidearm in a small locked box, and the magazine next to it when my wife drops me off at work and continues to her work. I have a CCP and my wife doesn't yet.

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    gregma wrote:
    swift wrote:
    Thanks!

    Also, does anyone know the law that says what is consered "unloaded" - ie can I place a loaded magazine in the same gun case as the gun, as long as the loaded magazine is not inserted into the gun (& also the gun chamber is empty as well)?

    I know some states say that if you have a loaded magazine near the gun then the gun is considered "loaded" even though it isn't in the gun.

    I did find the below WA law, but I'm not sure if it only applies to the rifles & shotguns being discussed, or if it also applies to pistols:

    RCW 77.15.460 :
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if: (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed. [...] (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.
    #5 is what you want to look at. Thus a "firearm" (this would include any), is not loaded if the magazine is not in the firearm. I put my sidearm in a small locked box, and the magazine next to it when my wife drops me off at work and continues to her work. I have a CCP and my wife doesn't yet.
    The definition of loaded per RCW 9.41.010 is as follows;

    9) "Loaded" means:

    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.


    Basically if you do wht gregma does when his wife has the car you will be fine.


    On a side not I have gotten both my CPL's in my mailbox within 4 days in Snohomish County.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Thanks everyone for the great information! This has clarified the subject very nicely.

    4 days for delivery! I should have applied in Snohomish! Here I sit in Island County still waiting to CALL to see if I can pick it up - they said I can't even call until the 30 day mark. 7 days to go . . .

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    "They require in-person pick-up so that could make it difficult for me if they decide to do that."

    That's odd, everywhere else I've heard of, mails it to you.
    Be prepared. Be very prepared.

    http://swwsurplus.com/ *** 2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98661 *** 360.314.6687
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    The lady who took my application said that I could call in 30 days to see if it was "ready for me to pick it up" - It could be just an Island County Sheriff's Office thing, or perhaps she just didn't know what she was talking about as that happens from time to time too. Maybe she actually works in a different department & was filling in for the day.


    thebastidge wrote:
    "They require in-person pick-up so that could make it difficult for me if they decide to do that."

    That's odd, everywhere else I've heard of, mails it to you.

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    swift wrote:
    4 days for delivery! I should have applied in Snohomish!
    If you applied as a resident then you are required to apply in the county you reside in so Sno County being speedy would not have helped you.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  17. #17
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    Actually I applied as a non-resident, as I only come here for 5 to 8 weeks every summer to cool off & get ready to go back & face the warm weather in Arizona. I only picked the Island County Sheriff's office because it was somewhat close to where I'm staying, and the person I called at the Oak Harbor Police office said that they don't issue them.

    joeroket wrote:
    swift wrote:
    4 days for delivery! I should have applied in Snohomish!
    If you applied as a resident then you are required to apply in the county you reside in so Sno County being speedy would not have helped you.

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    swift wrote:
    Actually I applied as a non-resident, as I only come here for 5 to 8 weeks every summer to cool off & get ready to go back & face the warm weather in Arizona. I only picked the Island County Sheriff's office because it was somewhat close to where I'm staying, and the person I called at the Oak Harbor Police office said that they don't issue them.

    joeroket wrote:
    swift wrote:
    4 days for delivery! I should have applied in Snohomish!
    If you applied as a resident then you are required to apply in the county you reside in so Sno County being speedy would not have helped you.
    HA. They are required to accept any application that is filled out correctly during thier business hours. The code states that "The Chief of a municipality shall issue". What do they not understand about that?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Yes it's sad just how little our government officials understand about so many things. I love the GOA Rosie shirt that says "what part of "infringed" don't you understand?"

    I also love the line on the shirt that says if guns kill people, then spoons made Rosie fat. I ordered one for myself just because when I first saw it I nearly died laughing.

    http://gunowners.org/merchrosiet.htm

    PS - my shirt arrived and the 1st day I wore it I had about 10 people tell me that they love it, and several even asked where they can get one. I gave them the GOA URL where they can get it, so I guess GOA has hit on a great marketing idea with this shirt.

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    Just a quick update on my CCW permit process @ the Island County Sheriff's office. Today is officially day 29 of the required 30 day wait (for them to check to see if my background check paperwork is back), but I tried calling to see if they could check to see if the background check came back a day early. It turns out that it still isn't there, and they said that they actually don't work with the FBI directly - she told me that they submit the paperwork to the State Highway Patrol and that the Island County Sheriff's office has to wait for 30 days before they can call the State Highway Patrol to ask them why the results have not been sent back to Island County yet. So she said I can call on Friday, and if it still isn't there, that she can then call the State Patrol to ask why. I got the impression that this is routine - that they always have to call on day 30 & then soon after the paperwork finally arrives.

    Don't we just love bureaucracy?

    PS - as a sidenote she also mistakenly believes that WA law REQUIRES the sheriffs office to wait a MINIMUM of 30 days before they can issue a CCW permit. Don't you just love officials who can't read the law they are supposed to support? I didn't bother correcting her because I don't want to make her mad until I have my CCW permit in hand. I do plan to print out the law & give them a copy right AFTER I get my CCW permit. I might as well educate them to make it easier on Island County residents who want a permit in the future.

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    swift wrote:
    Just a quick update on my CCW permit process @ the Island County Sheriff's office. Today is officially day 29 of the required 30 day wait (for them to check to see if my background check paperwork is back), but I tried calling to see if they could check to see if the background check came back a day early. It turns out that it still isn't there, and they said that they actually don't work with the FBI directly - she told me that they submit the paperwork to the State Highway Patrol and that the Island County Sheriff's office has to wait for 30 days before they can call the State Highway Patrol to ask them why the results have not been sent back to Island County yet. So she said I can call on Friday, and if it still isn't there, that she can then call the State Patrol to ask why. I got the impression that this is routine - that they always have to call on day 30 & then soon after the paperwork finally arrives.

    Don't we just love bureaucracy?

    PS - as a sidenote she also mistakenly believes that WA law REQUIRES the sheriffs office to wait a MINIMUM of 30 days before they can issue a CCW permit. Don't you just love officials who can't read the law they are supposed to support? I didn't bother correcting her because I don't want to make her mad until I have my CCW permit in hand. I do plan to print out the law & give them a copy right AFTER I get my CCW permit. I might as well educate them to make it easier on Island County residents who want a permit in the future.
    RCW 9.41.070

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.


    The law clearly states that they have a MAXIMUM of thirty days to issue after the filing of an application but also no restriction against issuing one earlier. It is not required that the entire 30 days beused but it is fairly common to do so.

    It has no provision for a slow process although if you are issued a license, and the background check comes back unfavorable, be assured that the license will be cancelled and the issuing authority will then come looking to see if there were any "lies" in the application. If there were one can then expect to be prosecuted for giving false statements.

    If they haven't issued the CPL after 30 days from the application date (minus any legal holidays, just to be fair), then they are in violation of the code provision.


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I got my original CPL in Anacortes ten years ago. I was originally told that it would be mailed. After six weeks I went in to see what was taking so long and was told that it wasn't ready yet that the chief hadn't signed it. Twenty minutes later I walked out with it in hand. The last time I renewed was in Sedro-Woolley and I was told that it would be mailed in two or three days. When I went in to the station a week later the new CPL was there but still sitting on someones desk.

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    Good news - I called this morning & was told that the background check paperwork was there now, but that they needed to complete the paperwork of issuing the actual CCW. They said if they are able to, they will finish sometime today, but that they would call me if & when they are done with the paperwork.

    I then asked if it is possible to get it done today before noon, depending on how their schedule is, I'd really appreciate it. She said she'd see what she could do, and would call me when done.

    About half an hour later, I had the pleasant surprise that she called & said it was all done. I can now go & pick it up. I'll finally be able to open carry in my car in WA. Happy day.

    I plan to print out the 30 day provision & bring it in, just for their edification. But I'll wait until I have the CCW in my hand just in case they get mad.

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    If a firearm must be unloaded to OC in a vehicle or one must have CPL for it to be loadeddoes thismean that alloccupents of vehicle's tansporting money (Brinks, Wells Fargo Etc.) have CPL's?

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    400 wrote:
    If a firearm must be unloaded to OC in a vehicle or one must have CPL for it to be loadeddoes thismean that alloccupents of vehicle's tansporting money (Brinks, Wells Fargo Etc.) have CPL's?
    Those folks are a different story. They are licensed armed guards. There are a whole set of laws/rules that deal with them. They are only allowed to carry to, at, and from work. Anything other than that and they fall under the same laws other citizen does.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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