Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Stopped and Questioned by Unarmed Police in Rehoboth Beach

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    108

    Post imported post

    As some of you know, I had planned on vacationing in Rehoboth Beach this week. Well, I finally returned and I apologize for not giving updates while I was there but my laptop was not cooperating.

    I was walking the boardwalk by myself around 7:30pm on Tuesday night when I was flagged down by an unarmed deputy wearily making her way towards me near See's Candy and Playland Amusement Park. I assumed she was seasonal help, as to why she was not armed. This is how the conversation went. NOTE: I do not remember this conversation verbatim, but this is the gist and I've emboldened words and phrases I clearly remember.

    LEO: Are you with the department?

    Me: Excuse me?

    LEO: Are you a police officer?

    Me: No, ma'am.

    LEO: Are you legally allowed to have that gun on you?

    Me: Yes, ma'am. Rehoboth Beach has no local ordinances prohibiting the carrying of loaded firearms in the open.

    LEO: That's only if you have a permit. I'll be needing to see both your ID and permit please.

    Me: Ma'am, I am from out of state. I do not qualify for a permit, the only way I can legally carry is if my firearm is in the open. (I hand her my PA ID)

    LEO: Sir, please step up against the building while I contact my supervisor.

    At this point, I am being observed by nearly twenty people sitting on benches facing the Grotto Pizza wall that I am up against. Up until this point, I have not had a second look at my firearm, including the many souvenier shops that I went into and the restaraunt that I dined at. The LEO detaining me was on the radio for a brief second, all the while keeping her eyes glued to me. At this point,three other unarmed LEOs arrived and stood near her, none of them engaging me. Finally, afternearlysix minutes of sweating against the wall, she comes back over.

    LEO: Sir, my supervisor has made it clear to me that loaded and exposed carry is legal in Rehoboth Beach, however I must make clear to you that we have absolutely no crime in Rehoboth. As you can see, I am clearly unarmed, as are the rest of our boardwalk patrol. Violent crime does not exist here.

    Me: I understand that, ma'am however I am from out of town and when I go anywhere with my family, I am armed wherever I am legally allowed.

    LEO: And that's your right, however we have a vested public interest in maintaining the safety of the boardwalk and feel that no citizen will need their firearm in self-defense while they are visiting.

    Me: Well, I appreciate your opinion ma'am. If you'd allow me, Iam already running late and I'm sure my family is worried about me so I'd like to be on my way.

    LEO: You can leave, however I'd recommend never coming to the boardwalk again with your firearm. It is irresponsible and downright stupid.

    This is where she sort of struck a nerve. I had to bite my lip, and wanted to retort however the crowd surrounding my detention was growing and I did not want to seem hostile.

    Me: Well, that's your opinion ma'am but frankly I don't appreciate you verbally degrading me like that.

    LEO: Well next time don't give me a reason to. There are hundreds of children walking the boardwalk for God's sake!

    Me: Well, maybe your department should make policy to allow you to carry firearms so you can protect those children. Now please excuse me, I need to find my family.

    I interrupted her at this point. The next moment was my most uncomfortable moment OC'ing. As I made my way past the officers, it was like the parting of the red sea. There were nearlytwenty or sopeople watching me at this point, and as I walked past them they all pushed their children out of the way and continued to stare. I would have never had that happen if I hadn't of been detained. I walked the length of the boardwalk to go back to my car, and left for my hotel.

    Man was I angry that drive home! I'll be sending a letter to the Leuitenant I emailed with letting him know what happened.

  2. #2
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Post imported post

    That's crazy! Sounds like you were better prepared to "defend and protect" than the police. Maybe they have the European approach to law enforcement: ask and hope people listen, because if not, they're screwed. Say you were a criminal: what would she be able to do if you decided to threaten her life: NOTHING! People could be killed and the police would be able to do nothing! I am worried the insanity of Europe is spreading here, and it scares the living bat crap out of me!

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    Go get 'em.
    It's not her job to editorialize like that and certainly no excuse for the insulting comments. Make sure to drive that point home in your letter. She has no business being employed as a peace officer if she thinks she can belittle people for legal activities AND tell them they should not continue to exercise said legal activities.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,043

    Post imported post

    At what point is one considered detained? In this particular incident, it would seem to me that the detainment initiated when the LEO requested ID. Aren't LEO required to have resonable suspicion based on articulable facts before detainment is considered lawful?

    Would this be just cause for filing a complain based on abuse of authority under color of law?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    NoVA Beach Trip??? <wink> The only problem would be securing through the trip through the Republic of Maryland. *shudder*
    -Unrequited

  6. #6
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:
    ...
    LEO: And that's your right, however we have a vested public interest in maintaining the safety of the boardwalk and feel that no citizen will need their firearm in self-defense while they are visiting.

    Me: Well, I appreciate your opinion ma'am. If you'd allow me, Iam already running late and I'm sure my family is worried about me so I'd like to be on my way.

    LEO: You can leave, however I'd recommend never coming to the boardwalk again with your firearm. It is irresponsible and downright stupid.

    This is where she sort of struck a nerve. I had to bite my lip, and wanted to retort however the crowd surrounding my detention was growing and I did not want to seem hostile.

    Me: Well, that's your opinion ma'am but frankly I don't appreciate you verbally degrading me like that.
    Perfect up to here. That last line was all class. Kudos, kudos, kudos.


    steveforopen wrote:
    ...

    LEO: Well next time don't give me a reason to. There are hundreds of children walking the boardwalk for God's sake!

    Me: Well, maybe your department should make policy to allow you to carry firearms so you can protect those children. Now please excuse me, I need to find my family.
    Cheap shot.

    You've got no standing to be making that suggestion. All you did with that one is greatly diminish the capital you'd earned with your perfect performance before that....you had been totally in the right...



    steveforopen wrote:
    ...

    I'll be sending a letter to the Leuitenant I emailed with letting him know what happened.
    Capital, which would have been useful in dealing with the guy(s) who do in fact make the policy you so officiously criticized...

    Be sure to mention in your letter your ideas about what the proper policies should be in his department for handling their operations at Rehoboth Beach. I'm sure the Lt. will want to hear it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    108

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Cheap shot.

    You've got no standing to be making that suggestion. All you did with that one is greatly diminish the capital you'd earned with your perfect performance before that....you had been totally in the right...

    Capital, which would have been useful in dealing with the guy(s) who do in fact make the policy you so officiously criticized...

    Be sure to mention in your letter your ideas about what the proper policies should be in his department for handling their operations at Rehoboth Beach. I'm sure the Lt. will want to hear it.
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.

    I have no intentions of letting the Lt. know how I feel about his unarmed seasonal employees patrolling a wide expanse of beach with a stick in their belt. However, I don't feel like I lost any ground with these people because I decided to criticize as I was criticized.

  8. #8
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Cheap shot.

    You've got no standing to be making that suggestion. All you did with that one is greatly diminish the capital you'd earned with your perfect performance before that....you had been totally in the right...

    Capital, which would have been useful in dealing with the guy(s) who do in fact make the policy you so officiously criticized...

    Be sure to mention in your letter your ideas about what the proper policies should be in his department for handling their operations at Rehoboth Beach. I'm sure the Lt. will want to hear it.
    I have no intentions of letting the Lt. know how I feel about his unarmed seasonal employees patrolling a wide expanse of beach with a stick in their belt.
    Why not? You felt it important enough to suggest when you were talking to a lowly beat cop. Yet you won't talk about it to a person higher up on the chain who might actually do something about it?

    Unless...hmmm....unless.....you really don't care what they do about it?

    Of course, if you don't ... really care about the issue....then why...um, use it when talking to the beat cop....?

    steveforopen wrote:
    However, I don't feel like I lost any ground with these people because I decided to criticize as I was criticized.
    Depends on whether the beat cop fills in the Lt. on your careful suggestions about something that did not involve you, I'd say.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    somewhere, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    232

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Cheap shot.

    You've got no standing to be making that suggestion. All you did with that one is greatly diminish the capital you'd earned with your perfect performance before that....you had been totally in the right...

    Capital, which would have been useful in dealing with the guy(s) who do in fact make the policy you so officiously criticized...

    Be sure to mention in your letter your ideas about what the proper policies should be in his department for handling their operations at Rehoboth Beach. I'm sure the Lt. will want to hear it.
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.

    I have no intentions of letting the Lt. know how I feel about his unarmed seasonal employees patrolling a wide expanse of beach with a stick in their belt. However, I don't feel like I lost any ground with these people because I decided to criticize as I was criticized.
    I think you handled the whole encounter very professionally. I am sure she was jealous that her department doesn't allow her to carry, and that she wanted you to feel guilty and stop carrying also.

    I'm glad you stood your ground and all those onlookers got a good lesson about what is legally allowed and that they should not be afraid to do the same.

    Another point I thought about is, if there is zero crime in Rehobuth Beach, why do they need to patrol in the first place? If more people open carried, that would deter crime on the boardwalkby itself, allowing the LEO's to patrol the streets.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.
    Don't apologize (or even explain) yourself to HankT why you feel that the police self-castrating themselves to provide a "safer image" is a bad thing. In fact, don't ever feel the need to apologize or explain yourself to HankT ever, all he does is instigate... see for yourself:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...d=1225&posts=1

    You did well, and after your letter they'll be put on notice for it. Good job all around.
    -Unrequited

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,043

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    steveforopen wrote:
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.
    Don't apologize (or even explain) yourself to HankT why you feel that the police self-castrating themselves to provide a "safer image" is a bad thing. In fact, don't ever feel the need to apologize or explain yourself to HankT ever, all he does is instigate... see for yourself:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...25&posts=1

    You did well, and after your letter they'll be put on notice for it. Good job all around.
    Indeed, don't apologize or explain yourself to HankT. I've learned to just ignore his posts. In fact, I just skimmed over all of his posts in this thread without reading a single word. It's a learned skill, I know.



  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,350

    Post imported post

    vrwmiller wrote:
    unrequited wrote:
    steveforopen wrote:
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.
    Don't apologize (or even explain) yourself to HankT why you feel that the police self-castrating themselves to provide a "safer image" is a bad thing. In fact, don't ever feel the need to apologize or explain yourself to HankT ever, all he does is instigate... see for yourself:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...25&posts=1

    You did well, and after your letter they'll be put on notice for it. Good job all around.
    Indeed, don't apologize or explain yourself to HankT. I've learned to just ignore his posts. In fact, I just skimmed over all of his posts in this thread without reading a single word. It's a learned skill, I know.

    I learned that skill a while ago when I figured out how to detect ********.

    Shut up Hank.

  13. #13
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    vrwmiller wrote:
    unrequited wrote:
    steveforopen wrote:
    She is a person exactly the same as I am a person. If she feels like she wants to interject her personal opinion about my right to carry, why am I in the wrong for voicing MY opinion about their departmental policy regarding firearms? I'm sure she's well aware that she is at a definite disadvantage without a firearm, and seeing someone who is not a LEO carrying a firearm probably stuck in her craw a bit.
    Don't apologize (or even explain) yourself to HankT why you feel that the police self-castrating themselves to provide a "safer image" is a bad thing. In fact, don't ever feel the need to apologize or explain yourself to HankT ever, all he does is instigate... see for yourself:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_us...25&posts=1

    You did well, and after your letter they'll be put on notice for it. Good job all around.
    Indeed, don't apologize or explain yourself to HankT. I've learned to just ignore his posts. In fact, I just skimmed over all of his posts in this thread without reading a single word. It's a learned skill, I know.

    Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the wordignore that I wasn't previously aware of.

    :P


  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,350

    Post imported post

    Whoa damn, guess I gotta say it again.

    SHUT UP HANK.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    534

    Post imported post

    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Go get 'em.
    It's not her job to editorialize like that and certainly no excuse for the insulting comments. Make sure to drive that point home in your letter. She has no business being employed as a peace officer if she thinks she can belittle people for legal activities AND tell them they should not continue to exercise said legal activities.
    I have said it before, and it bears repeating, IMHO.

    THE BLOODY POLICE ARE NOT PAID TO OPINE!

    They need to know their place in the scheme of things, which is to SERVE WE, THE PEOPLE !

    Right on the money, Patriot, good post!

    TrueBrit.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    898

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:

    LEO: Sir, my supervisor has made it clear to me that loaded and exposed carry is legal in Rehoboth Beach, however I must make clear to you that we have absolutely no crime in Rehoboth. As you can see, I am clearly unarmed, as are the rest of our boardwalk patrol. Violent crime does not exist here.

    If they "have absolutely no crime in Rehoboth", what is the purpose of her job? It appears she is getting paid to do nothing. Is this some kind of a welfare/jobs program?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    4 hours south of HankT, ,
    Posts
    5,121

    Post imported post

    DreQo wrote:
    Whoa damn, guess I gotta say it again.

    SHUT UP HANK.
    Looks like an opportune place to use this puppy I've been itching to use:

    [img]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Test/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/STFUa.gif[/img]

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    Tomahawk wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    Whoa damn, guess I gotta say it again.

    SHUT UP HANK.
    Looks like an opportune place to use this puppy I've been itching to use:

    [img]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Test/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/STFUa.gif[/img]
    Invisible puppy... you have it listed as "C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Test/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/STFUa.gif"
    -Unrequited

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    4 hours south of HankT, ,
    Posts
    5,121

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    Invisible puppy... you have it listed as "C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Test/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/STFUa.gif"
    Yeah, well, I can't remember where I found it, so I just dragged it and dropped it from my own machine.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    4 hours south of HankT, ,
    Posts
    5,121

    Post imported post

    [img]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Test/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/stfu7.jpg[/img]

  21. #21
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bear, Delaware, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    Here's an interesting page:

    http://www.city-data.com/city/Rehobo...-Delaware.html

    Crime data for the beach from 2001-2005... No murders, 1 rape a year except in 2002, 20 robberies from 2002-2005, plenty of assaults... All in all, the claim that "Violent crime does not exist here" is blatently incorrect.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kent county, Delaware, USA
    Posts
    322

    Post imported post

    Using the crime index from the bottom of the chart, it seems that Rehoboth has 3 times the crime index of NYC and substantually more than Washington DC. Safe? wheres myMAC 10??? oh, yea. the won't let me have one

    Great link for info. Thanks

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    5

    Post imported post

    Most importantly...



    mmmmm... Grotto's... damn good pizza!

  24. #24
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    steveforopen wrote:
    LEO: You can leave, however I'd recommend never coming to the boardwalk again with your firearm. It is irresponsible and downright stupid.
    Steaming patriot: You're saying I'm irresponsible and downright stupid? I'm not theone who has to radio for an armed response when I need it, now am I?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •