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.380 opinions

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Legba

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There's nothing at all wrong with a .380, IMO. To shoot one, or hear one go off, you really can't tell it from a 9mm. We used to practice with .380s on stop signs (not mounted ones), and they will penetrate sheet metal just fine, so stories of bullets bouncing off attackers' skulls are either patent nonsense or are the result of someone engaging at a ridiculous distance.

Also, aim for the sternum - lots of nearby vital organs and blood vessels. There's no civil immunity if you cause"collateral damage" (in an otherwise justified shooting) by missing a head shot and hitting someone/something unintended.

My one concern is that a lot of .380 pistols don't handle hollow-point ammo well. Practice with the these if it's the self-defense ammo you intend to use, to make sure that it won't hang up on the ramp when you need it. That or stick to FMJ rounds - overpenetration shouldn't be a problem in this caliber.

-ljp
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

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Legba wrote:
There's nothing at all wrong with a .380, IMO. To shoot one, or hear one go off, you really can't tell it from a 9mm. We used to practice with .380s on stop signs (not mounted ones), and they will penetrate sheet metal just fine, so stories of bullets bouncing off attackers' skulls are either patent nonsense or are the result of someone engaging at a ridiculous distance.

Also, aim for the sternum - lots of nearby vital organs and blood vessels. There's no civil immunity if you cause"collateral damage" (in an otherwise justified shooting) by missing a head shot and hitting someone/something unintended.

My one concern is that a lot of .380 pistols don't handle hollow-point ammo well. Practice with the these if it's the self-defense ammo you intend to use, to make sure that it won't hang up on the ramp when you need it. That or stick to FMJ rounds - overpenetration shouldn't be a problem in this caliber.

-ljp
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Please remember that a .380ACP has well under half the muzzle energy of a full power 9mm. While better than a hammer, there are a boat load of choices out there for 9mm and even .40S&W in small, easily concealable handguns. I do own a P3AT Kel-Tec which I carry on those occasions when weather or clothes, or both, dictate that piece to be the better choice for the moment. But my preference is a good .40S&W (of which I own several) or a hotly loaded 9mm.

As for aiming for the sternum, this holds good water for other reasons as well and is what I generally advise people who seek my opinion. The bony material of the sternum will fragment under had impact, becoming secondary missiles, off to do their own level of damage. If your bullet misses some vital spots, perhaps sternum bone material will do the job.
 
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LEO 229

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I would rather carry a 9mm... but if I had to pack something a little smaller on a special occasion.. I would not turn away a .380.
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

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LEO 229 wrote:
I would rather carry a 9mm... but if I had to pack something a little smaller on a special occasion.. I would not turn away a .380.
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Yep, better than nothing. Must gun writers view the .380ACP as the minimum powered cartridge for self-defence work and I believe this is correct. It certainly beats a knife (expect in expert hands) or having no firearm at all. And I do carry my P3AT from time to time. I would advise anyone who wants to use the .380 as a primary carry piece to load it with the most powerful and effective load they can find and that their gun will handle. Same for any handgun really, but as you go down the ladder of power and cartidge size, such becomes so much more important.
 
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Wooley

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LEO 229 wrote:
Wooley wrote:
I don't know, I'm pretty good with my fists too...also elbows, knees, and shins.
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I am not that bad either...

You know the saying.. he brought a knife to a gun fight.. same thing goes for bringing personal weapons.

People do not settle an argument with a fist fight anymore. They would rather prove their point by shooting you.

Times have really changed.
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Isn't that the truth!
 
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Wooley

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LEO 229 wrote:
I would rather carry a 9mm... but if I had to pack something a little smaller on a special occasion.. I would not turn away a .380.
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This is why I just got a .380. Its easy to conceal and reliable. I do however have a Taurus Millenium Pro in .45 that is easy to conceal, its just a little heavy for light clothing.
 
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Tomahawk

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If you want something light and thin with more punch, maybe check out the Kahr .45 ACP. It's gotta be one of the smallest .45s I've seen (derringers excluded), but it's pricey.
 
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openryan

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markand wrote:
Some say .380 isn't enough for defensive purposes. I'd offer the opinion that even a .22 beats bare hands. Carry a handgun of the largest caliber you are willing and able to carry all the time, or that is right for the situation. A .380 in the pocket is better than a .45 at home in the safe.

Now if only somebody would invent a round that fits a gun the size of a North American mini-revolver, but has the knock down punch of a .500 S & W, well, we'd have something, wouldn't we.
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Does anyone want to argue the reverse? Is .177 better than bare hands?
 
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Tomahawk

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openryan wrote:
markand wrote:
Some say .380 isn't enough for defensive purposes. I'd offer the opinion that even a .22 beats bare hands. Carry a handgun of the largest caliber you are willing and able to carry all the time, or that is right for the situation. A .380 in the pocket is better than a .45 at home in the safe.

Now if only somebody would invent a round that fits a gun the size of a North American mini-revolver, but has the knock down punch of a .500 S & W, well, we'd have something, wouldn't we.
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Does anyone want to argue the reverse? Is .177 better than bare hands?
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You mean an airgun? Yeah, that's good if you can quick shoot both his eyes out maybe and then grab it by the muzzle and beat him with it...what's your point?

A .22 is better than bare hands, however. It will do some damage if you hit the right spot.
 
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LEO 229

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Tomahawk wrote:
You mean an airgun? Yeah, that's good if you can quick shoot both his eyes out maybe and then grab it by the muzzle and beat him with it...what's your point?

A .22 is better than bare hands, however. It will do some damage if you hit the right spot.
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I agree. If you can propel anything by air into the eyes or face.... OK.

But a .22 would be better since you can penetrate the body cavity and it will sting like a Mo-Fo. A shot the the abdomen, groin, neck, or face is going to have some impact.

And a .22 can kill you!! So many officers have been shot in the arm pit not protected by the vest. Lucky shots that hit their hearts. :(
 
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Tomahawk

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Mas Ayoob's book In the Gravest Extreme actually recomends .380 and .22LR to people who want to carry but who can't handle large guns or heavy recoil, which I find strange, given his reputation as a knowledgable authority, but as I was reading it I noticed the monster sideburns on the guy in the photos and checked the copyright date: 1981. So I a few things have changed since then. .40SW hadn't been invented yet, for instance, and many cartridges may not have come in hollow-point, yet.

Ayoob also claims that the 1911 .45 ACP has a heavy recoil approaching a .357 magnum, which I think is total BS. I have fired .357 revolvers that stung the crap out of my hand and made me flinch on every round. 1911's are very smooth and pleasant to shoot by comparison, so I don't know where Ayoob is getting that stuff.

But he is right about .380s being easier to control, and better than .32s or .25s.
 
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DeerForce1

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markand wrote:
Now if only somebody would invent a round that fits a gun the size of a North American mini-revolver, but has the knock down punch of a .500 S & W, well, we'd have something, wouldn't we.
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About the closest thing i can think of that matches that description is the derringer by (i think)North American Arms that can shoot either a 45 long colt of a 410 round.

I agree with what most here have said that any gun that you will carry with you is better than the one you leave at home for whatever reason. There are 9mm & 40s on the market that match the size & weight of a 380 so i personally don't think that makes much of an issue for carry or concealability. I think the important part is to choose the largest caliber that you can handle the recoil on & can shoot accurately..........................................................................DF1
 
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Citizen

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Tomahawk wrote:
Mas Ayoob's book In the Gravest Extreme actually recomends .380 and .22LR to people who want to carry but who can't handle large guns or heavy recoil, which I find strange, given his reputation as a knowledgable authority, but as I was reading it I noticed the monster sideburns on the guy in the photos and checked the copyright date: 1981. So I a few things have changed since then. .40SW hadn't been invented yet, for instance, and many cartridges may not have come in hollow-point, yet.

Ayoob also claims that the 1911 .45 ACP has a heavy recoil approaching a .357 magnum, which I think is total BS. I have fired .357 revolvers that stung the crap out of my hand and made me flinch on every round. 1911's are very smooth and pleasant to shoot by comparison, so I don't know where Ayoob is getting that stuff.

But he is right about .380s being easier to control, and better than .32s or .25s.
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I suspect its all in the context. For an elderly person, or a person with multiple sclerosis andstability problems, a 1911 could be a bit too much.Ayoob's on record elsewhere as saying the .380 is too small, something like friends don't let friends carry a .380, if I recall. Again, its the context. Any gun is better than...etc.

Replace that 158 gr. semi-wadcutter with a 125 gr. semi-jacketed hollow-point and the .357 Magnum becomesless unpleasant on the hand, or conversely comes a little closer to a 1911. That shock absorber on top of the 1911 helps spread the recoil over a moment or two more time than a revolver that delivers it all to your hand at once. If you want to jar your wrist, try.45 ACP in a revolver chambered for it. I did. Five rounds was enoughfor me. Can't recall if the frame backstrap was cushioned by a rubberover-grip. I know the 110 gr. Winchester USA .357 Magnums out of my 2" have similar recoil to a standard .45 ACP ball round, which is what, 185 gr?
 
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Tomahawk

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Citizen wrote:
If you want to jar your wrist, try.45 ACP in a revolver chambered for it. I did. Five rounds was enoughfor me. Can't recall if the frame backstrap was cushioned by a rubberover-grip.
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I have a single-acting revolver chambered for .45 ACP, and I while the muzzle certainly rises more than a 1911, I don't find it too rough on my hand. It has no cushioning, the stocks are made of hardwood.

On the other hand, I tried out my buddy's .357 with rubber overgrips, and it beat me up pretty good.
 
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