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Thread: John Pierce on Bob Durgin Show in Harrisburg Today

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    OCDO Co-Founder John Pierce (me) will be on the Bob Durgin Show on WHP580 in Harrisburg PA at 4:00PM on Tuesday July 17th talking about open carry in Pennsylvania and across the nation.

    Listen online at

    http://www.voiceofpa.net/WHP580_Schedule.aspx


    Wish me luck!

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    Good luck dude - how did you swing htis? Are you going to be OCing in the radio studio?

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    A summary of the show ...

    Bob had originally asked if I could be on for 30 minutes, but we ended up taking a full hour. I don't know how well I did, but I had a lot of fun doing it

    He started the show by stating that he had always heard that open carry was legal in PA, but he had never really believed that a citizen could get away with it without being harrassed.

    He asked me quite a few of the standard questions and seemed to play devils advocate on the whole concept of open carry, at one point asking if he could open carry 6 guns into a bank and when I replied in the affirmative, asking if that applied to long guns as well. He seemed taken aback when I said that our legal research had focused on handguns and I wasn't sure if there were any transportation or game laws that applied to long guns that weren't pertinent to handguns.

    I tried to explain the intricacies of open carry in PA (no unlicensed carry in Philly, vehicles, etc). When he returned to the topic of harrassment, I told him about the officer education that was needed in places like Norfolk and about Danbus' experiences there.

    I could have told him more, but he had a direction he wanted to take the show in and he did a pretty good job of bringing it back to where he wanted it. But he did give me a fair bit of time compared to other radio shows I have been on, so I have no room to complain.

    We took about 5 calls from several people.

    I would be very interested to hear from anyone who heard the broadcast. How did I do?

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    Unfortunately I missed the show, do you have it archived anywhere?

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    I listened to your entire segment. You did real well. My son-in-law told me of open carry a few weeks ago and I thought he was mistaken. Thanks for setting me straight. I recently obtained a conceal carry license due to being stalked. I have a Bersa 380 and have been to safety class. The only thing is I am afraid to carry. I fear the possible issues with the yuppies calling the police if they notice I carry. Several officers know I have the gun and I believe they are supportive.My gun is truely a necessity. I wish I had your courage. Thanks for your time you give this project.

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    I attempted to find it broadcaston the websites this afternoon but had no luck. If they put it up there, I'll listen to it. Sounds like it went well.

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    I listened to the show but I still keep thinking about a possible conflict with my Concealed weapons permit. Since I have the concealed weapons permit it is required that I keep my weapon concealed and if I deviated from that requirement by openly carrying the weaponwouldn'tI supposedly put my permit in jeopardy not to mention other possible trumped up charges.

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    There simply is no stipulation to the PA License to Carry Firearms that you have to conceal your firearm.
    None, nada, zilch.



    ยง 6109. Licenses.
    (a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.
    (b) Place of application.--An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city.
    (c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. One of the following reasons for obtaining a firearm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fishing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason. The application form shall be dated and signed by the applicant and shall contain the following statement:
    I have never been convicted of a crime of violence in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or elsewhere. I am of sound mind and have never been committed to a mental institution. I hereby certify that the statements contained herein are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein, I am subject to penalties prescribed by law. I authorize the sheriff, or his designee, or, in the case of first class cities, the chief or head of the police department, or his designee, to inspect only those records or documents relevant to information required for this application.
    (d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall investigate the applicant's record of criminal convictions, shall investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year, shall investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and shall investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) and shall conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency or mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to firearm ownership).
    (e) Issuance of license.--
    (1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
    (i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.
    (ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L.233, No.64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
    (iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.
    (iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
    (v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.
    (vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.
    (vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.
    (viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
    (ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
    (x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.
    (xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
    (xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles.)
    (xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.
    (3) The license shall bear the name, address, date of birth, race, sex, citizenship, Social Security number, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes and signature of the licensee; the signature of the sheriff issuing the license; the reason for issuance; and the period of validation. The sheriff may also require a photograph of the licensee on the license. The original license shall be issued to the applicant. The first copy of the license shall be forwarded to the commissioner within seven days of the date of issue, and a second copy shall be retained by the issuing authority for a period of six years.
    (f) Term of license.--
    1. A license to carry a firearm issued under subsection (e) shall be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years unless sooner revoked.
    2. At least 60 days prior to the expiration of each license, the issuing sheriff shall send to the licensee an application for renewal of license. Failure to receive a renewal application shall not relieve a licensee from the responsibility to renew the license.
    (g) Grant or denial of license.--Upon the receipt of an application for a license to carry a firearm, the sheriff shall, within 45 days, issue or refuse to issue a license on the basis of the investigation under subsection (d) and the accuracy of the information contained in the application. If the sheriff refuses to issue a license, the sheriff shall notify the applicant in writing of the refusal and the specific reasons. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the applicant at the address set forth in the application.
    (h) Fee.--The fee for a license to carry a firearm is $19. This includes a renewal notice processing fee of $1.50. This includes an administrative fee of $5 under section 14(2) of the act of July 6, 1984 (P.L.614, No.127), known as the Sheriff Fee Act. No fee other than that provided by this paragraph or the Sheriff Fee Act may be assessed by the sheriff for the performance of any background check made pursuant to this act. The fee is payable to the sheriff to whom the application is submitted and is payable at the time of application for the license. Except for the administrative fee of $5 under section 14(2) of the Sheriff Fee Act, all other fees shall be refunded if the application is denied but shall not be refunded if a license is issued and subsequently revoked. A person who sells or attempts to sell a license to carry a firearm for a fee in excess of the amounts fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.
    (i) Revocation.--A license to carry firearms may be revoked by the issuing authority for good cause. A license to carry firearms shall be revoked by the issuing authority for any reason stated in subsection (e)(1) which occurs during the term of the permit. Notice of revocation shall be in writing and shall state the specific reason for revocation. Notice shall be sent by certified mail, and, at that time, a copy shall be forwarded to the commissioner. An individual whose license is revoked shall surrender the license to the issuing authority within five days of receipt of the notice. An individual whose license is revoked may appeal to the court of common pleas for the judicial district in which the individual resides. An individual who violates this section commits a summary offense.
    (j) Immunity.--A sheriff who complies in good faith with this section shall be immune from liability resulting or arising from the action or misconduct with a firearm committed by any individual to whom a license to carry a firearm has been issued.
    (k) Reciprocity.--The Attorney General may enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state's license to carry a firearm.
    [line]
    PS: WELCOME!
    Also check out www.paopencarry.org for PA specific info and laws.



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    In PA, the main advantages gained with a LTCF are:

    1. You can carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

    2. You can carry a firearm (concealed and/or open) during a declared emergency.

    3. You can carry a firearm in Philadelphia.

    Other than the above, an openly carried firearm is legal and our stautes protect you from being harassed for exercising this right (see 18 C.S. 5301 Official Opression).

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    Thanks but sometimes I think there are gray areas...causing undue alarm etc. and maybe I am rather paranoid and would hate to think about being charged with something. I would like to know if there has been any tests in real life court decisions in the state of Pa.

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    Chris wrote:
    Since I have the concealed weapons permit it is required that I keep my weapon concealed
    No - for starters, PA issues Licenses to Carry Firearms - not concelaed weapons permits.

    You need the LTCF to carry openly sometimes: (1) Philly; (2) vehicles; (3) periods of emergency.

    You have no duty to conceal simply b/c you have a PA LTCF.

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    Thanks. I have been around guns all my life and carried them as a kid for hunting but my recently acquited LTCF is a new thing for me and I guess you can understand that people like me are somewhat paranoid. Hey...that's why I'm here to get better educated and I also I will find it interesting to see if more people start to open carry with no permit or license and we'll see what happens.

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    Chris wrote:
    ... I would like to know if there has been any tests in real life court decisions in the state of Pa.
    Only the supreme court. </sarcasm>

    Ortiz v. Commonwealth, - Pa. - 545 Pa. 279, 681 A.2d 152 (1996)

    and

    Commonwealth v. Hawkins PA (1996)

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    Chris wrote:
    Thanks. I have been around guns all my life and carried them as a kid for hunting but my recently acquited LTCF is a new thing for me and I guess you can understand that people like me are somewhat paranoid. Hey...that's why I'm here to get better educated and I also I will find it interesting to see if more people start to open carry with no permit or license and we'll see what happens.
    And the first line does state...the LTCF is issued for the purpose of carrying the weapon CONCEALED.

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    In PA, as in many other states, it has been thrown around (incorrectly) like "commin knowledge" that open carry is illegal. The police themselves are very guilty of this.
    When I moved to PA 14 years ago I was told many things that were incorrect by the York county sheriff about where I could not carry.
    I really don't know why all these misconceptions came to be so widely believed but they are. Luckily, it looks like the word about the facts are starting to spread.

    As for OC stories, be sure to look through the rest of the Pennsylvania section here for actual real world reports.
    Remember that people tend to only report the negative experiences. Part of the reason I started my journal post here (OC in Luzerne Co.)
    So people can read about the non-events rather than the rare bad events.


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    Looks like I have alot of reading to do!!!

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    Chris wrote:
    And the first line does state...the LTCF is issued for the purpose of carrying the weapon CONCEALED.
    Yes, because concealed carry is specifically prohibited by statute:
    ss6106
    The license is the exception. Notice it also excepts "carry" (concealed not mentioned) in a vehicle. Meaning OC or CC.

    BUT, I repeat, "There simply is no stipulation to the PA License to Carry Firearms that you have to conceal your firearm with the permit".

    That would be like saying that because a drivers license is "for driving a motor vehicle" that you are no longer allowed to walk!

    Add to that that, pa statutes only forbid open carry in vehicles, declared emergencies and cities of the first class where the statutes also exempt (specifically) LTCF holders for "carry" (concealed not mentioned)

    OC on foot is not prohibited by statute (except in prohibited areas and in Philla which is excepted for LTCF holders as well)

    Clear as mud yet?

    This has all been upheld by the supreme court in the rulings cited above.



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    Chris wrote:
    Looks like I have alot of reading to do!!!
    LOL! Don't let it look too ominous to you
    The PA Uniform Firarms Act is actually pretty short and sweet. It is written well which makes the law pretty clear too.
    Remember, statutes make "things/actions" illegal. Lack of statute makes same de facto legal.


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    Ok....without beating this to death and I have alot of reading to do I would say at this point the only advantage of having that license is....I CAN carry it concealed......and....I can carry it in my vehicle loaded. Basically right? .......whereas someone that supposedly has the right of open carrycan do just that and can't have the weapon in the vehicle loaded. Ithink people out there are so scared of guns it would cause a major social stir if many people started carrying them in plain sight.

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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    Looks like I have alot of reading to do!!!
    LOL! Don't let it look too ominous to you
    The PA Uniform Firarms Act is actually pretty short and sweet. It is written well which makes the law pretty clear too.
    Remember, statutes make "things/actions" illegal. Lack of statute makes same de facto legal.
    Right except that there are so many laws and regulations that alot of us are probably criminals and don't even know it.

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    Chris wrote:
    Ok....without beating this to death and I have alot of reading to do I would say at this point the only advantage of having that license is....I CAN carry it concealed......and....I can carry it in my vehicle loaded. Basically right?
    Yes, basically. Add to the list Philladelphia.
    ... I think people out there are so scared of guns it would cause a major social stir if many people started carrying them in plain sight.
    I carry openly almost daily and have yet to see a "stir". I have yet to see anything other than possitive responses actually. I've had the ability to educate several people that asked me about it out of curiosity, after seeing me carrying.

    Others have similar experiences, including in Pittsburg and even the suburbs of Phila.

    In addition to the reports here there are some on PAFOA.
    Here is one that is pretty good (a lot of posts/reports):
    http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...pen-carry.html


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    Chris wrote:
    Right except that there are so many laws and regulations that alot of us are probably criminals and don't even know it.
    Maybe so, maybe not.
    In regards to gun laws it simply isn't the case.

    Luckily, in PA, we also benefit from state pre-emption, meaning that locaities can not pass laws stricter than the state laws in regards to possession, transport, etc of firearms.
    The UFA is the law. And it's pretty black and white.



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    Heard the 2nd half hour of the show. Great job John. You sounded well spoken and knowledgeable. Thanks for helping to get this out there. In celebration, I open carried to Home Depot last night.

    Doesn't look like they are archiving the shows online anymore. Last one posted is dated Sept. 2006.

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    Welcome to the forum!
    -Unrequited

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    Ok.....for all those who responded to my questions....thanks....but I want to add that when I got my LTCF I was given an instrucion sheet from the Sheriff's Dept. in Cumberland County Pa. On that sheet it states: Your firearm MUST be concealed at all times. Overt and unnecessary display of your firearm in public places can raise alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens and create embarrassing situations, which could result in revocation of your license. Also....carrying a firearm creates the possibility of it being taken away from you and used against you or another person. And help.....I registered in here last night and forgot to but my locality and I can't seem to find how to do an update after the fact. Thanks!!!

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