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John Pierce on Bob Durgin Show in Harrisburg Today

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Pa. Patriot

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Chris wrote:
Ok....without beating this to death and I have alot of reading to do I would say at this point the only advantage of having that license is....I CAN carry it concealed......and....I can carry it in my vehicle loaded. Basically right?
Click to expand...
Yes, basically. Add to the list Philladelphia.
... I think people out there are so scared of guns it would cause a major social stir if many people started carrying them in plain sight.
Click to expand...
I carry openly almost daily and have yet to see a "stir". I have yet to see anything other than possitive responses actually. I've had the ability to educate several people that asked me about it out of curiosity, after seeing me carrying.

Others have similar experiences, including in Pittsburg and even the suburbs of Phila.

In addition to the reports here there are some on PAFOA.
Here is one that is pretty good (a lot of posts/reports):
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/5705-mckees-rocks-open-carry.html
 
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Pa. Patriot

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Chris wrote:
Right except that there are so many laws and regulations that alot of us are probably criminals and don't even know it.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, maybe not.
In regards to gun laws it simply isn't the case.

Luckily, in PA, we also benefit from state pre-emption, meaning that locaities can not pass laws stricter than the state laws in regards to possession, transport, etc of firearms.
The UFA is the law. And it's pretty black and white.
 
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Penguini66

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Heard the 2nd half hour of the show. Great job John. You sounded well spoken and knowledgeable. Thanks for helping to get this out there. In celebration, I open carried to Home Depot last night.

Doesn't look like they are archiving the shows online anymore. Last one posted is dated Sept. 2006.:(
 
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Chris

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Ok.....for all those who responded to my questions....thanks....but I want to add that when I got my LTCF I was given an instrucion sheet from the Sheriff's Dept. in Cumberland County Pa. On that sheet it states: Your firearm MUST be concealed at all times. Overt and unnecessary display of your firearm in public places can raise alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens and create embarrassing situations, which could result in revocation of your license. Also....carrying a firearm creates the possibility of it being taken away from you and used against you or another person. And help.....I registered in here last night and forgot to but my locality and I can't seem to find how to do an update after the fact. Thanks!!!
 
John Pierce

John Pierce

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Click on My Account at the top of the screen and then on the Profile tab.

Welcome aboard!
 
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Chris

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jpierce wrote:
Click on My Account at the top of the screen and then on the Profile tab.

Welcome aboard!
Click to expand...
Thanks JPierce. I heard the show and you did great. I have found that with Bob Durgan many times his shows raise as many questions as it answers. He basically takes the position of wanting less government and many of us see government controlling our lives etc. etc. I see government not as government anymore but as the "Controllers". I couldn't have imagined how you would have fared on an "anti gun" show. Yikes! I have thought of the fact that in Pa. on the opening day of Deer Hunting season there can be a million hunters out there and then there are the people that retain guns in their homes for protection and then there are the thousands of vets and when you multiply one state by 50 you end up with a nation of millions of gun owners....but there are the voices of anti gun people that are trying to disarm us.
 
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Penguini66

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Chris wrote:
Ok.....for all those who responded to my questions....thanks....but I want to add that when I got my LTCF I was given an instrucion sheet from the Sheriff's Dept. in Cumberland County Pa. On that sheet it states: Your firearm MUST be concealed at all times. Overt and unnecessary display of your firearm in public places can raise alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens and create embarrassing situations, which could result in revocation of your license. Also....carrying a firearm creates the possibility of it being taken away from you and used against you or another person. And help.....I registered in here last night and forgot to but my locality and I can't seem to find how to do an update after the fact. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
I got the same instruction sheet from the Cumberland County Sheriff. It is incorrect. Throw it away and pay no attention to it. There's some decent advice on it. But that is all it is. Advice. If you want a good "instruction sheet" read this flier: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/7481-your-pennsylvania-gun-rights-handy-flyer-carry-you.html

The Sheriff cannot revoke your license simply because you open carry. You would have to do something pretty stupid.
 
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Pa. Patriot

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Chris wrote:
Ok.....for all those who responded to my questions....thanks....but I want to add that when I got my LTCF I was given an instrucion sheet from the Sheriff's Dept. in Cumberland County Pa. On that sheet it states: Your firearm MUST be concealed at all times. Overt and unnecessary display of your firearm in public places can raise alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens and create embarrassing situations, which could result in revocation of your license. Also....carrying a firearm creates the possibility of it being taken away from you and used against you or another person. And help.....I registered in here last night and forgot to but my locality and I can't seem to find how to do an update after the fact. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...


Ah, yes. The piece of paper with the sheriff's incorrect opinions. I got the same non-sense years ago in York county. Want to have some fun? Ask the sheriff to cite you the statute that prohibits what the paper claims.

The fact is that the sheriffs rarely understand the firearms laws. Sad, but true. :(
If you check the OC/CC forum at PAFOA you will find lots of threads about what LEO, particularly sheriff's, have incorrectly told people.
Since you mentioned Cumberland co doing this I will fire off a letter to Cumberland County Sheriff's dept directing them to cease including these pieces of paper that have no backing in actual law. Included will be an open carry memo They should absolutely not be giving out such instructions that they can not back up with actual law.
If your interested in understanding better the relevant portions of statute related to oc/cc I highly recommend you check out the open carry memo too. Might answer a lot of questions for you.
 
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Penguini66

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Back to the show in question. Two things I heard I wasn't quite sure about.

1) If I heard it right, Chris talked about "brandishing" being against the law. As far as I know there is no "brandishing" law in PA.

2) The subject of 1,000' from a school came up. Any clarification on that?
 
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Mike

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Penguini66 wrote:
Back to the show in question. Two things I heard I wasn't quite sure about.

1) If I heard it right, Chris talked about "brandishing" being against the law. As far as I know there is no "brandishing" law in PA.

2) The subject of 1,000' from a school came up. Any clarification on that?
Click to expand...
PA has no 1000 ft zone; federal zone is inapplicable to LTCF holders; court cases suggest that the PA school ban is inapplicable to LTCF holders, but I would not want to be a test case.
 
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Pa. Patriot

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Penguini66 wrote:
Back to the show in question. Two things I heard I wasn't quite sure about.

1) If I heard it right, Chris talked about "brandishing" being against the law. As far as I know there is no "brandishing" law in PA.

2) The subject of 1,000' from a school came up. Any clarification on that?
Click to expand...

Correct. No brandishing law. "disorderly conduct" and "terroristic threats" are covered in the open carry memo . The school zone issue is covered as well.
School zones have a "or other lawful purpose" exception. Most people agree that a LTCF or legally open carrying would obviously be an "other lawful purpose". But many are afraid to test it, so to say...


By the way, all this talk about LEO not knowing the laws. I must point out that a LOT of LEO DO know the laws on carry. I know several personally. A lot of people are afraid that even if they are correct the LEO will be wrong and as soon as they walk out of their house open carrying they will be cuffed and stuffed.
Those of us whom do it have found the opposite to the true and negative encounters with LEO are rare and getting rarer thanks to people following up on the training memo's and other educational communications with CLEO's
 
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Chris

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Since I am new in here I hope that eventually there will be clear and concise do's and don't's regarding carrying concealed and open and I will try to become familiar with both of them. I really think there is a movement to protect ourselves and assert the right to bear arms. I may investigate whether there is any legitimate classes for people that want to do either and I think partipation from the legal enforcement would be welcome.As I said before I am going to try to keep up with this thread etc. and I think that what I've read thus far has been helpful andI think there are alot of really good and responsible people contributing to the forum.
 
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Legba

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Chris wrote:
Pa. Patriot wrote:
Chris wrote:
Looks like I have alot of reading to do!!!
Click to expand...

LOL! Don't let it look too ominous to you :)
The PA Uniform Firarms Act is actually pretty short and sweet. It is written well which makes the law pretty clear too.
Remember, statutes make "things/actions" illegal. Lack of statute makes same de facto legal.
Click to expand...
Right except that there are so many laws and regulations that alot of us are probably criminals and don't even know it.
Click to expand...

No, I know I'm a criminal.

-ljp
 
Grapeshot

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Pa. Patriot wrote:
There simply is no stipulation to the PA License to Carry Firearms that you have to conceal your firearm.
None, nada, zilch.
Click to expand...
Pa. Supreme Court decision
Ortiz v. Commonwealth, - Pa. - 545 Pa. 279, 681 A.2d 152 (1996)
Code: 
"Only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for
carrying any firearm, on a public street or public property,
regardless of whether it is unconcealed or concealed.
Throughout the rest of the Commonwealth, a license is only
necessary if one is carrying a concealed firearm or is
carrying one in a vehicle. 18 Pa. C.S. section 6106(a)."

Interpertation:  Open carry is legal except with a very few restrictions.....
so when I visit Pa. I can OC and carry loaded (how else) in my car. 

Yata hey
 PS - Don't know why this printed in green - can't make it black!
 
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Skuggi

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Did you just recently get your LTCF? I'm wondering if this sheet is currently still in circulation. If so I guess I need to get another bloody e-mail fired up or make some phone calls.

Chris wrote:
Ok.....for all those who responded to my questions....thanks....but I want to add that when I got my LTCF I was given an instrucion sheet from the Sheriff's Dept. in Cumberland County Pa. On that sheet it states: Your firearm MUST be concealed at all times. Overt and unnecessary display of your firearm in public places can raise alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens and create embarrassing situations, which could result in revocation of your license. Also....carrying a firearm creates the possibility of it being taken away from you and used against you or another person. And help.....I registered in here last night and forgot to but my locality and I can't seem to find how to do an update after the fact. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
 
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