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Just kick out of Layton Hills Mall for OC.....

T

Tacomatose

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Layton, Utah, USA
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I just got back from a trip to the mall (a trip that I make at least weekly), but this time things ended a little differently. My brother and I had just sat down with our food when the "unarmed" mall security approached me and asked "excuse me sir, do you have identification proving that you are a police officer?" I responded, "I do not, and I am not a police officer" He then bounced back with, "we do not allow weapons of any type on the property, this is private property, and I am asking you to remove it from the property immediately!" I then very politely said, " is this a new policy? I have been a customer of this mall for 11 years and I have never been approached and informed of this policy?" They said it is in their code of conduct posted on all of the doors. I asked for them to show me where it was posted and then I would gladly leave.As we were heading toward the exit,2 Layton PD officer walked in the door andoneof the security guys said "dont worry, they aren't here for you" I responded "I don't worry, Itrain with most of them"The Layton officer then noticed me and waved. The looks onthe security guys faceswere priceless. After I was escorted past multiple entrances that were not marked with any type of "no weapons" signs, they stopped in from of a sign with very small print, mounted off to the side of one of the entrances. It was the type of sign that lists all of the rules similar to what you would see at a swimming pool, "no running, language, etc." and it did list no weapons. I informed them that they should have every entrance posted and that I would like to speak to the management regarding the policy. They said that they had a meeting with management later today and they would take care of it but I had to leave the property immediately. I then took the high road and walked out to my car and left. I am asuming that"if" this is "Private" property they have the right to restrict carry, but it should be noted of every door into the mall.

Let me know what you think about the situation. B
 
D

dng

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Seems like you handled yourself very well. Be sure to follow up with management and let them know they are risking loosing a customer of 11 years if they insist on a "no weapons" policy.

Also I got to thinking about the security guard's statement: "we do not allow weapons of any type on the property, this is private property, and I am asking you to remove it from the property immediately!" I wonder if he was reacting the same way to every person that carried a pocket knife into the store? I would venture to guess he was not.

Keep us updated on what is happening with this!
 
HankT

HankT

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I think you done good.

They asked you to leave. You made a request about the signage. They acceded to your request. You gave them feedback/suggestion. And you left.

Sounds pretty straightforward on everyone'spart. Just a business transaction, essentially. No muss and very little fuss.

You may have to check the law on your guess that gun prohibition "should be noted of every door into the mall." Sounds to me like, from a legal requirement standpoint,you're guessing. Of course, youwouldbe correct that signs on all the doors wouldmake sensefrom logical and customer-informative perspectives.
 
sccrref

sccrref

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Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
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We have a local mall in Virginia Beach that has the same type sign as you discribed posted out of normal view when you enter the mall from entrances going directly to the parking lot. No fire arms. None of the store entrancesare posted at either the entrance into the store from the parking lots or to the entrance to the mall from the store. I have emailed the State Police website inquiring if this is posted sufficiently or if it should be posted at all entrances. Still have not received an answer from either my original email or the follow up one. So, I am unable to shed light on this issue at present. Will post the answer if VASP ever provide one.
 
T

Tacomatose

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Layton, Utah, USA
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I tried to handle it a professional and from the sounds of your replies, I must have done farely well. I was debating following up with the mall management, but I think I will take it to the next level and see what respones I receive from them. I am searching right now for any info on the requirement to have private establishment posted at each door into the building. Any other advise on where to go from here? Thanks, B
 
O

openryan

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Looks like you entered a gun-free zone (see clip posted yesterday haha)

Honestly, sounds like you did well. Most of these rent a cops are just on a power trip, I wouldn't pee in their ear if their brain was on fire.
 
T

Tacomatose

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Layton, Utah, USA
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You are absolutely right, but you have to admit, there is a little bit of courage (stupidity) to approach an armed citizen, confront them, and make them leave, knowing all you have on your "gun belt" is a pair of handcufs and a radio:?

I just sent an email to the head of mall security and to the mall manager, we will see what happens. B
 
T

Tacomatose

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Layton, Utah, USA
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Just found the "behavioral code of conduct" for the mall. Check out # 20

Then they follow it with this,

"Violation of this code of conduct may result in expulsion from this property in addition to any other legal remedies that mall management may choose to exercise.

This shopping center is private property and no rights shall accrue to the public by virtue of the public’s entry into this mall or on mall property. This “Behavioral Code of Conduct” is not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the mall management office."

I think they are a little confused. I am going forward with a denial of civil rights and we will see what happens. B
 

Attachments

  • BehavioralCodeofConduct.pdf
    84.3 KB · Views: 212
D

dng

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It asks you to refrain from carrying. It does not prohibit it. Maybe the security guard was not as well informed as he thought....

Edit: it also says at the bottom it is not intended to deprive people of their rights, and I do believe that's what the security guard was trying to do!
 
M

mkl

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Joined
Jul 10, 2007
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387
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arlington,va, ,
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Tacomatose wrote:
You are absolutely right, but you have to admit, there is a little bit of courage (stupidity) to approach an armed citizen, confront them, and make them leave, knowing all you have on your "gun belt" is a pair of handcufs and a radio:?

I just sent an email to the head of mall security and to the mall manager, we will see what happens. B
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. It does not take any courage for a unarmed security guard to approach a citizen carrying a fire arm, because he knows he is not a threat. A person carrying a firearm openly in a public area, not acting inappropriately is *not* a threat to anyone. This is just another example that proves that. Logically if the security guard really thought you were a threat to public safetly he would never have approached you, and would have straight away called the police.
 
O

openryan

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Tacomatose wrote:
You are absolutely right, but you have to admit, there is a little bit of courage (stupidity) to approach an armed citizen, confront them, and make them leave, knowing all you have on your "gun belt" is a pair of handcufs and a radio:?

I just sent an email to the head of mall security and to the mall manager, we will see what happens. B
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am not so sure I would want to be a guard where I could not carry a weapon. It makes your word harder to enforce, not that you would use the firearm to make people comply, but I think that the gun is attatched to authority in peoples minds.
 
T

Tacomatose

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Joined
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Messages
100
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Layton, Utah, USA
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mkl wrote:


I completely disagree. It does not take any courage for a unarmed security guard to approach a citizen carrying a fire arm, because he knows he is not a threat. A person carrying a firearm openly in a public area, not acting inappropriately is *not* a threat to anyone. This is just another example that proves that. Logically if the security guard really thought you were a threat to public safetly he would never have approached you, and would have straight away called the police.
Click to expand...
I have to agree, I was looking at it on the other side of the fence( the wrong side). I can't wait to see the response from mall management. B
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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Feb 22, 2007
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2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
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Tacomatose wrote:
I just got back from a trip to the mall (a trip that I make at least weekly), but this time things ended a little differently. My brother and I had just sat down with our food when the "unarmed" mall security approached me and asked "excuse me sir, do you have identification proving that you are a police officer?" I responded, "I do not, and I am not a police officer" He then bounced back with, "we do not allow weapons of any type on the property, this is private property, and I am asking you to remove it from the property immediately!" I then very politely said, " is this a new policy? I have been a customer of this mall for 11 years and I have never been approached and informed of this policy?" They said it is in their code of conduct posted on all of the doors. I asked for them to show me where it was posted and then I would gladly leave.As we were heading toward the exit,2 Layton PD officer walked in the door andoneof the security guys said "dont worry, they aren't here for you" I responded "I don't worry, Itrain with most of them"The Layton officer then noticed me and waved. The looks onthe security guys faceswere priceless. After I was escorted past multiple entrances that were not marked with any type of "no weapons" signs, they stopped in from of a sign with very small print, mounted off to the side of one of the entrances. It was the type of sign that lists all of the rules similar to what you would see at a swimming pool, "no running, language, etc." and it did list no weapons. I informed them that they should have every entrance posted and that I would like to speak to the management regarding the policy. They said that they had a meeting with management later today and they would take care of it but I had to leave the property immediately. I then took the high road and walked out to my car and left. I am asuming that"if" this is "Private" property they have the right to restrict carry, but it should be noted of every door into the mall.

Let me know what you think about the situation. B
Click to expand...

I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt. This mall doe not have signage at EVERY enterance either.

Fashion Place Mall fails to have signage at EVERY enterance as well
 
T

Tacomatose

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
100
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
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UTOC-45-44 wrote:
I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt. This mall doe not have signage at EVERY enterance either.

Fashion Place Mall fails to have signage at EVERY enterance as well
Click to expand...

This is the part the tops it all off:

"This shopping center is private property and no rights shall accrue to the public by virtue of the public’s entry into this mall or on mall property. This “Behavioral Code of Conduct” is not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the mall management office."

I sent a nice email to the management and I will follow up with a phone call tomorrow. B
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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Joined
Feb 22, 2007
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2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
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Tacomatose wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt. This mall doe not have signage at EVERY enterance either.

Fashion Place Mall fails to have signage at EVERY enterance as well
Click to expand...

This is the part the tops it all off:

"This shopping center is private property and no rights shall accrue to the public by virtue of the public’s entry into this mall or on mall property. This “Behavioral Code of Conduct” is not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the mall management office."

I sent a nice email to the management and I will follow up with a phone call tomorrow. B
Click to expand...

"This “Behavioral Code of Conduct” is not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law"



This IS a joke
 
L

Lew

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
217
Location
Moscow, ID
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
Tacomatose wrote:
I just got back from a trip to the mall (a trip that I make at least weekly), but this time things ended a little differently. My brother and I had just sat down with our food when the "unarmed" mall security approached me and asked "excuse me sir, do you have identification proving that you are a police officer?" I responded, "I do not, and I am not a police officer" He then bounced back with, "we do not allow weapons of any type on the property, this is private property, and I am asking you to remove it from the property immediately!" I then very politely said, " is this a new policy? I have been a customer of this mall for 11 years and I have never been approached and informed of this policy?" They said it is in their code of conduct posted on all of the doors. I asked for them to show me where it was posted and then I would gladly leave.As we were heading toward the exit,2 Layton PD officer walked in the door andoneof the security guys said "dont worry, they aren't here for you" I responded "I don't worry, Itrain with most of them"The Layton officer then noticed me and waved. The looks onthe security guys faceswere priceless. After I was escorted past multiple entrances that were not marked with any type of "no weapons" signs, they stopped in from of a sign with very small print, mounted off to the side of one of the entrances. It was the type of sign that lists all of the rules similar to what you would see at a swimming pool, "no running, language, etc." and it did list no weapons. I informed them that they should have every entrance posted and that I would like to speak to the management regarding the policy. They said that they had a meeting with management later today and they would take care of it but I had to leave the property immediately. I then took the high road and walked out to my car and left. I am asuming that"if" this is "Private" property they have the right to restrict carry, but it should be noted of every door into the mall.

Let me know what you think about the situation. B
Click to expand...

I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt.
Click to expand...
Does that mean I can post a sign outside my house and keep out the LEOs? :)
 
U

UTOC-45-44

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
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2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
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Lew wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
Tacomatose wrote:
I just got back from a trip to the mall (a trip that I make at least weekly), but this time things ended a little differently. My brother and I had just sat down with our food when the "unarmed" mall security approached me and asked "excuse me sir, do you have identification proving that you are a police officer?" I responded, "I do not, and I am not a police officer" He then bounced back with, "we do not allow weapons of any type on the property, this is private property, and I am asking you to remove it from the property immediately!" I then very politely said, " is this a new policy? I have been a customer of this mall for 11 years and I have never been approached and informed of this policy?" They said it is in their code of conduct posted on all of the doors. I asked for them to show me where it was posted and then I would gladly leave.As we were heading toward the exit,2 Layton PD officer walked in the door andoneof the security guys said "dont worry, they aren't here for you" I responded "I don't worry, Itrain with most of them"The Layton officer then noticed me and waved. The looks onthe security guys faceswere priceless. After I was escorted past multiple entrances that were not marked with any type of "no weapons" signs, they stopped in from of a sign with very small print, mounted off to the side of one of the entrances. It was the type of sign that lists all of the rules similar to what you would see at a swimming pool, "no running, language, etc." and it did list no weapons. I informed them that they should have every entrance posted and that I would like to speak to the management regarding the policy. They said that they had a meeting with management later today and they would take care of it but I had to leave the property immediately. I then took the high road and walked out to my car and left. I am asuming that"if" this is "Private" property they have the right to restrict carry, but it should be noted of every door into the mall.

Let me know what you think about the situation. B
Click to expand...

I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt.
Click to expand...
Does that mean I can post a sign outside my house and keep out the LEOs? :)
Click to expand...

Sure...,It's PRIVATE property.

Put that "NO Law enforcement Officer is allowed Armed on your Property; "Well Trained" Citizens Carrying Firearms Openly and/or Concealed are Welcomed ONLY" sign.:lol::monkey
 
sccrref

sccrref

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Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
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Tacomatose wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
I went to South Town Mall on 106th and they stated on their "signs" something to the same effect ason the signs @ Layton Mall but they did not have LEO excemption, meaning LEO's would not be able to walk in with their Shooterseither:celebrate.AndIF I would ever see an LEO I would refer him to the signage and that He/She is NOT exempt. This mall doe not have signage at EVERY enterance either.

Fashion Place Mall fails to have signage at EVERY enterance as well
Click to expand...

This is the part the tops it all off:

"This shopping center is private property and no rights shall accrue to the public by virtue of the public’s entry into this mall or on mall property. This “Behavioral Code of Conduct” is not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the mall management office."

I sent a nice email to the management and I will follow up with a phone call tomorrow. B
Click to expand...
I personnaly do not agree with the mall's policy. Having said that, who's civil rights prevail? The owner of the mall as it is private property or those of us who frequent the mall? If it is our rights that prevail, we would not be able to post signs against LEOs carrying on our private property. Just some food for thought and something to liven up this thread.
 
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