VA resident with only Utah permit, carrying in VA

apocryph · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

As I fight w/ FFX County to get my VA CHP (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1741.html) , I find myself unable to carry in places like National Forests and VA state parks due to my lack of a carry permit.

At the time I took my VA CHP class, I also got the paperwork for a Utah non-resident permit, but didn't take the time to file it since I'd heard the backlog was months and I had to get fingerprinted.

Now that it looks like I'm at least months away from getting my VA permit, I'm thinking about dusting off that Utah app and sending it in. From the VA code and packing.org I don't see any reason why I couldn't carry in VA, as a VA resident, with only a Utah permit, at least until my VA one comes through. Does anyone have any thoughts one way or the other?

30 cal slut · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

well, you might as well apply for your VA resident permit, because UT is backed up for at least six months due to the massive influx of non-resident apps.

just finding a UT-approved instructor (which you need for the UT non-resident license) can be a trial.

LEO 229 · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

From reading your other post... You were denied a VA CC permit based on address history or validation??

How long have you lived in VA??

Looks like a Utah permit is valid in Virginia according to Packing.org

http://www.packing.org/state/virginia/#thisstatehonors

Utah
Updated: 2004-07-01
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_reciprocity.htm
(High confidence)
Non-resident Permit/License ok

But the time and additional cost..... Do what you ned to do to comply with the VA permit requirements.

30 cal slut · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

also, Florida is recognized, right?

FL is only three months methinks.

apocryph · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

well, you might as well apply for your VA resident permit, because UT is backed up for at least six months due to the massive influx of non-resident apps. just finding a UT-approved instructor (which you need for the UT non-resident license) can be a trial.

I have applied and been denied (wrongly), and am about to apply again, but I figure 45 days to get the denial, a few weeks to arrange an Ore Tenus date, and if the judge denies my Ore Tenus appeal, who knows how long to schedule a Court of Appeals hearing. Could make Utah's backlog downright speedy.

I already took and passed a course from a UT-approved instructor, and have the piece of paper to prove it.

apocryph · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

From reading your other post... You were denied a VA CC permit based on address history or validation?? How long have you lived in VA??

Yes, Fairfax County requires proof you live in Fairfax county, despite having no legal basis for that requirement. I've lived in VA (and Fairfax County) for five years.

Looks like a Utah permit is valid in Virginia according to Packing.org http://www.packing.org/state/virginia/#thisstatehonors Utah Updated: 2004-07-01 http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_reciprocity.htm (High confidence) Non-resident Permit/License ok But the time and additional cost..... Do what you ned to do to comply with the VA permit requirements.

Yeah, I noticed that too, which makes me think it's probably OK.

It's a matter of principle w/ the VA permit. The County has no legal basis for their proof of residency requirement, and even if it's no more than an annoyance, it's still an extra-legal diktat, which I'm inclined to fight.

apocryph · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

also, Florida is recognized, right? FL is only three months methinks.

Ooh, good idea!

dichamw · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

I might have this all wrong. Wouldn't it be problematic to have an Utah or Florida CHP permit in leiu of a Virgina CHP when you are a full time Virginia resident. I would think the only reason to get an Utah or Florida permit is when go somewhere that do not havereciprocity withor recognize Virginia CHP that recognizes Utah or Florida.

I would love to do that for Maryland, but Utah honors Maryland but Maryland don't honor Utah.

Maybe some Virginain here have a Utah CHP and no Virginia CHPand have presented it to Virginia police with a Virginia DL and itall was alright... to prove the case here.:question:

apocryph · Jul 19, 2007

imported post

dichamw wrote:

I might have this all wrong. Wouldn't it be problematic to have an Utah or Florida CHP permit in leiu of a Virgina CHP when you are a full time Virginia resident. I would think the only reason to get an Utah or Florida permit is when go somewhere that do not havereciprocity withor recognize Virginia CHP that recognizes Utah or Florida.

I would love to do that for Maryland, but Utah honors Maryland but Maryland don't honor Utah.

Maybe some Virginain here have a Utah CHP and no Virginia CHPand have presented it to Virginia police with a Virginia DL and itall was alright... to prove the case here.:question:

Yeah, that's pretty much what I want to know. While I can't find any statutory reason why it's a problem for a resident to have an out-of-state CHP as long as VA recognizes it, that's not to say that my friendly neighborhood LEO will find my argument satisfactory...

30 cal slut · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

i'd tread carefully here. a letter into the state attorney general's office would be advisable just to CYA legally.

i seem to recall several delaware residents, who couldn't get a resident delaware CCW (at the time wasn't shall-issue - not sure if this has changed) and got florida non-resident ones instead. FL is recognized by DE methinks.

anyhoo, the DE AG but a kybosh on this sort of a thing and came out with a ruling on the DE website that says DE residents can't get a CCW from another state (that is recognized by DE) and then use it for DE.

so do be careful.

ParaWarthog · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

apocryph wrote:

As I fight w/ FFX County to get my VA CHP (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1741.html) , I find myself unable to carry in places like National Forests and VA state parks due to my lack of a carry permit.

I realize this is something I should already know, but I must ask:

If I'm correct, the National Forest gun policies mirror those of the state that houses the National Forest. Therefore, wouldn't OC be permissible in National Forests within Virginia?

apocryph · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

I realize this is something I should already know, but I must ask: If I'm correct, the National Forest gun policies mirror those of the state that houses the National Forest. Therefore, wouldn't OC be permissible in National Forests within Virginia?

You're correct that they mirror the laws of the host state. I could be wrong as well, but I thought VA treated national forest land and state parks the same; that is to say, CHP required (http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/faq.shtml).

ParaWarthog · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

apocryph wrote:

You're correct that they mirror the laws of the host state. I could be wrong as well, but I thought VA treated national forest land and state parks the same; that is to say, CHP required (http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/faq.shtml).

I'm aware that a CHP recognized by Va. is required for CC in Virginia state parks (no OC allowed), but can Virginia stretch that law to National Parks? I can understand the state of Virginia making a more stringent law for their own state parks, but do they also have the power to regulate the National Forests in the same way?

I realize that I couldn't carry in any manner in a National Forest in Illinois, as there is no provision for the firearms posession at all. That follows the state law.

However, the state of Virginia allows for non licensed open carry. Can the state make a specific law for the National Forest just as it can for the State Park?

Sorry if this isn't very clear, it's hard for me to translate this from my head to my fingers . . .

Mike · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

dichamw wrote:

I might have this all wrong. Wouldn't it be problematic to have an Utah or Florida CHP permit in leiu of a Virgina CHP when you are a full time Virginia resident.

No - like most states, VA does not refuse to acceopt CHPs issued by recipricol states if held by residents of VA.

You can carry in VA all you want on your mail order permit from PA, FL, UT, or whatever VA accepts.

dichamw · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

Mike wrote:

dichamw wrote:

I might have this all wrong. Wouldn't it be problematic to have an Utah or Florida CHP permit in leiu of a Virgina CHP when you are a full time Virginia resident.

Click to expand...

No - like most states, VA does not refuse to acceopt CHPs issued by recipricol states if held by residents of VA.

You can carry in VA all you want on your mail order permit from PA, FL, UT, or whatever VA accepts.

OK I'm not offering advice, but I would becurious to see what happens when aVALEO do a CCWcheck and the holder has Utah or Florida CHP and VA DL, I think passport and Military IDis valid government IDalso.

Honestly, I would rather have a VA CHP (which I do) and a VA DL (which I do) in VAor in reciprocity state just be consistent for CCW check.

nickerj1 · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

dichamw wrote:

Mike wrote:

dichamw wrote:

I might have this all wrong. Wouldn't it be problematic to have an Utah or Florida CHP permit in leiu of a Virgina CHP when you are a full time Virginia resident.

Click to expand...

No - like most states, VA does not refuse to acceopt CHPs issued by recipricol states if held by residents of VA.

You can carry in VA all you want on your mail order permit from PA, FL, UT, or whatever VA accepts.

Click to expand...

OK I'm not offering advice, but I would becurious to see what happens when aVALEO do a CCWcheck and the holder has Utah or Florida CHP and VA DL, I think passport and Military IDis valid government IDalso.

Honestly, I would rather have a VA CHP (which I do) and a VA DL (which I do) in VAor in reciprocity state just be consistent for CCW check.

He SHOULD do absolutely nothing. The reason no one gets a DE permit is because you have to announce possession of the concealed carry permit to the public. Putting a classified ad in your local paper stating you have a concealed carry permit counts and is what most people do, from what I've seen.

It isn't a real big deal, no one really reads classified ads these days. However, Mexican gangs (i.e. MI3 or whatever their name is.) are huge on that Maryland/Delaware border. I'm honestly surprised the INS hasn't raided the denser areas, like Walker Trailer Park.

apocryph · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

dichamw wrote:

Honestly, I would rather have a VA CHP (which I do) and a VA DL (which I do) in VAor in reciprocity state just be consistent for CCW check.

Honestly, so would I. Hopefully, I'll eventually get ffx cty to issue my permit according to state law; the sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.

However, in the mean time, I would rather legally carry under an out-of-state non-resident CHP than not carry at all. Of course, I can (and do) OC without a permit of any kind, but there are still areas in VA where lack of a permit means no carry, and there are also times I wish I could conceal (I work at a company with no policies against armed employees, but which I suspect would form one in a hurry the first day I walk in OC'ing my Glock 19).

It seems the consensus is that CCW on an out-of-state non-resident permit recognized by VA is legal under VA law, as I suspected. It also seems like a grey area in terms of how VA LEOs will respond to it, also as I suspected. So I guess it comes back once again to one's preference for judgement by 12 or carriage by 6.

dichamw · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

apocryph wrote:

dichamw wrote:

Honestly, I would rather have a VA CHP (which I do) and a VA DL (which I do) in VAor in reciprocity state just be consistent for CCW check.

Click to expand...

Honestly, so would I. Hopefully, I'll eventually get ffx cty to issue my permit according to state law; the sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.

However, in the mean time, I would rather legally carry under an out-of-state non-resident CHP than not carry at all. Of course, I can (and do) OC without a permit of any kind, but there are still areas in VA where lack of a permit means no carry, and there are also times I wish I could conceal (I work at a company with no policies against armed employees, but which I suspect would form one in a hurry the first day I walk in OC'ing my Glock 19).

It seems the consensus is that CCW on an out-of-state non-resident permit recognized by VA is legal under VA law, as I suspected. It also seems like a grey area in terms of how VA LEOs will respond to it, also as I suspected. So I guess it comes back once again to one's preference for judgement by 12 or carriage by 6.

Itis like having a different state DL (Texas) , different car license/registration (Tennessee)and a different state car insurance (Nebraska)and that got me in a heap oftrouble. Probably the same for Virginia.

chesire17201 · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

30 cal slut wrote:

also, Florida is recognized, right?

FL is only three months methinks.

yup 3 month's.......and taking every bit of it.....sent my app to Fl in may, still waiting, they have till august 16, course when i called to check on it i was told app is complete, just waiting on FBI print card to come back, so that seems to be where the time is, Fbi takes too long..........

sccrref · Jul 20, 2007

imported post

One of the instructors at A&P arms off of Lynnhaven drive(back past the Chucky Cheese) is a certified Utah instructor. I think his name was Roger.

VA resident with only Utah permit, carrying in VA

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Site Co-Founder

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member