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Thread: asked a gulfport cop what he thought

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    Hello everyone this is my first post. I am a relative new comer to the board but not to guns. i am 25 and some of my earliest memory's were of me and my dad cleaning and shooting guns (i must have been 3-4) and i have recently gotten back into them after a short hiatus. the other day a uniformed gulfport pd officer came into my store and asked if we had a few items and while i was helping him i asked him his "opinion" on open carry and he said "well as long as you have the permit it is ok". i said "no that is for concealed carry if I am not mistaken and i was wondering about open carry". he looked at me and i said "you know right there on your hip out there in the open... just like you guys" and he was kinda shocked. he said he was not aware of any law in gulfport but other cities could be different.

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    93sr20det wrote:
    Hello everyone this is my first post. I am a relative new comer to the board but not to guns. i am 25 and some of my earliest memory's were of me and my dad cleaning and shooting guns (i must have been 3-4) and i have recently gotten back into them after a short hiatus. the other day a uniformed gulfport pd officer came into my store and asked if we had a few items and while i was helping him i asked him his "opinion" on open carry and he said "well as long as you have the permit it is ok". i said "no that is for concealed carry if I am not mistaken and i was wondering about open carry". he looked at me and i said "you know right there on your hip out there in the open... just like you guys" and he was kinda shocked. he said he was not aware of any law in gulfport but other cities could be different.
    Laws are made to illegalize or outlaw things/actions. If there is no law pertaining to it, it can be deduced to be legal...

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    93sr20det,

    Welcome to OCDO.

    It wouldn't be your first thought, but we've learned the hard way that police are not a reliable source for gun law or opinion. Unless you knowthe officer well and respect his opinion.

    Some lie, some have it sideways, some seem to make it up, some seem to deliberately give misleading answers to discourage carry in some way or another.

    Its best to look up the law yourself. If you have any questions about what you find, seek clarification from genuinely knowledgeable gun-rights people or an attorney.

    One problem is an absence of law. It can take some looking to find something that isn't there. If your own search isn't turning up anything, then ask trustworthy sources.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    As far as I know, the caselaw in Mississippii pretty much states that a holster which conceals any part of the gun means that it's concealed and requires a MS Firearms Permit. To me, this makes MS a licensed open carry state on foot, completely legal in car without license due to extended domain laws there.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:

    Article 3, sec 12, clearly states every citizen has the *right* to bear arms. Note: it doesn't read "privilege."* Once sec 12 lays it out in plain English that we have the right to bear arms, it THEN goes on to talk about *concealing* arms, two totally different animals.* A weapon, in a holster, clearly visible AS a weapon, is not "concealed."

    How this can be confusing to anyone is beyond me.
    thank you for your reply you bring up a very good point. i need to print out article 3 and and have it if i ever decide to open carry

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Instead of starting a discussion with "case" law, why not start with the "supreme" law, the state constitution ?

    Article 3, sec 12, clearly states every citizen has the *right* to bear arms. Note: it doesn't read "privilege." Once sec 12 lays it out in plain English that we have the right to bear arms, it THEN goes on to talk about *concealing* arms, two totally different animals. A weapon, in a holster, clearly visible AS a weapon, is not "concealed."

    How this can be confusing to anyone is beyond me.
    I don't think there is anything wrong with citing the constitution for understanding the meaning of the law. However, I believe that case law will give you the insight as to how the judges rule on certain aspects. Case law can give you valuable learning experience at no expense to yourself.



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    openryan wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Instead of starting a discussion with "case" law, why not start with the "supreme" law, the state constitution ?

    Article 3, sec 12, clearly states every citizen has the *right* to bear arms. Note: it doesn't read "privilege." Once sec 12 lays it out in plain English that we have the right to bear arms, it THEN goes on to talk about *concealing* arms, two totally different animals. A weapon, in a holster, clearly visible AS a weapon, is not "concealed."

    How this can be confusing to anyone is beyond me.
    I don't think there is anything wrong with citing the constitution for understanding the meaning of the law. However, I believe that case law will give you the insight as to how the judges rule on certain aspects. Case law can give you valuable learning experience at no expense to yourself.
    +1 ......I would also add that the Constitutions of most states allow legislative regulation of the RTKBA so long as they don't "regulate the right away"....ie, one law prohibiting CC and another prohibiting OC.
    IMHO, it is the wording of the MS laws that seem to cause all the confusion......"concealed in whole or in part" seems to imply that one would need a MS permit to OC since a holster conceals "in part"......not that I agree but, even if you OCed on a lanyard and wore it like a necklace, the side next to your chest would not be visible and therefor "concealed" in some peoples point of view.
    Again, IMHO, the MS laws need to be re-worded as to make concealed and unconcealed, as we know it to be, clearly individual concepts.

    Just my .02....YMMV




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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    If you were to believe the Mississippi attorney general's office, there is no such thing as a RIGHT to bear arms, only the PRIVILEGE to bear arms. The only problem from where I sit is the folks in Mississippi state government don't want you knowing/exercising the RIGHT to bear arms, which they damned well know exists.
    Isn't this just about a guaranteed outcome of letting the gov't determine various questions and issues regarding rights?

    The rights were put there on the presumption that government will take them away or erode them as it seeks greater and greater power.

    We know they're going to try it in some way, shape, or form. Just thefact that any of the rights are written down tells you the gov't is going to try to erode or take them away, otherwise there wouldn't have been any reason to write them down.

    What would be surprising is if a government didn't try toeroderights.

    Which just means we have to keep alert to prevent whatever erosion they've got planned for next Tuesday, and work to undo the erosions they've already perpetrated.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    There is NOTHING confusing about the Mississippi state constitution's wording. Matter of fact, it's better than most !!! What part of "shall not be called into question" is confusing?
    If you would re-read my post, you will notice I said the way the LAWS were worded makes them confusing, not the Constitution.
    Again: the constitution is talking about a right, not a privilege. AFTER it declares the RIGHT to bear arms, it delves into the PRIVILEGE of concealing arms, two toally different animals.
    That was my point....the way that CC laws are written, "in whole or in part", may well require a permit to OC
    because a holster "conceals in part"....which, BTW, I disagree with in principal.
    Please read and try to understand what was said before you attack.....I agree with you.

    If you were to believe the Mississippi attorney general's office, there is no such thing as a RIGHT to bear arms, only the PRIVILEGE to bear arms. The only problem from where I sit is the folks in Mississippi state government don't want you knowing/exercising the RIGHT to bear arms,
    Which may very well be the reason for the wording in the CC laws.
    which they damned well know exists.

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    This thread has all (I think) of the applicableMS laws/codes regarding firearms/carry. They are reproduced for your viewing pleasure...

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum32/294.html



    Alas... even the inside of the firearm would be concealed from view... so go figure. You wouldn't even be able to touch it, because your slightest touch would render that portion hidden from view and therefore, concealed in part. Crazy...

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    + ......I would also add that the Constitutions of most states allow legislative regulation of the RTKBA so long as they don't "regulate the right away"....ie, one law prohibiting CC and another prohibiting OC.
    IMHO, it is the wording of the MS laws that seem to cause all the confusion......"concealed in whole or in part" seems to imply that one would need a MS permit to OC since a holster conceals "in part"......not that I agree but, even if you OCed on a lanyard and wore it like a necklace, the side next to your chest would not be visible and therefor "concealed" in some peoples point of view.
    Again, IMHO, the MS laws need to be re-worded as to make concealed and unconcealed, as we know it to be, clearly individual concepts.

    Just my .02....YMMV


    You would think that article III, section 12 would make that law null and void. The way I look at it, that law is unconstitutional. I haven't found any court cases regarding open carry in this state. I might not be looking in the right places.

    I would also like to add, I asked the Chief of Police in a town nearby, who is a good friend of mine, what he thought of open carry. He said that as far as he knew, it is legal and he himself would not confront anyone for doing it.

    -Dave

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I, for one, prefer not to depend on somone's "interpretation" of the law, but the rule of law.* What Wain Penton may or may not do is how you end up in jail.
    i agree unless it is in writing (i.e. state law) i would not trust him even if he is a friend

    also does anyone know of any specific cities that have specific ordinances against open carry?

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    Gulfpot Police said as a CCW Permited person we can open carry?

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    :what:a cop inbiloxi told me it was legal to open carry with a firearms permit :celebrate

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    Has anyone in the orange grove /gulfport area been or plain to open carry

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    Hello:
    Carl here i live in Orange Grove area i am also CCW permitted. I carry Turus pt111 9 MM.
    So have u opened here? my e-mail is picarl@cableone.net. I do security & P.I..


    Carl P.I.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Yo...

    Huge red font is unnecessary. All of us shoot guns here, so our eyesight can't be that bad.

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    93sr20det wrote:
    i asked him his "opinion" on open carry and he said "well as long as you have the permit it is ok". i said "no that is for concealed carry if I am not mistaken and i was wondering about open carry". he looked at me and i said "you know right there on your hip out there in the open... just like you guys" and he was kinda shocked.
    The EXACT same thing happened to me in Leesburg, VA. I wrote the chief of Police.. Held a dinner in their town and included a reporter.

    http://www.loudountimes.com/news/200...ights-leesburg




    Gun owners show off their rights in Leesburg
    By Elizabeth Coe
    Five men sat around a table at Giovanni's New York Pizza in Leesburg May 19, eating pizza, sipping iced tea and sharing stories of what it's like to be a gun owner.
    A gun was holstered on each man's hip, in plain view of the customers dining at the family-style restaurant.

    The men, who are regular citizens, not police officers, were openly carrying their firearms, mainly to exercise their right to do so in the state of Virginia.

    "There are a lot of reasons," said Vienna resident Bill Garman, who carries a gun pretty much everywhere it is allowed. "You never know when a crime might happen. It's better to have it and not need it than the other way around."

    In Virginia, it is legal to carry guns openly in most public places; in private establishments, it's up to the owner. Federal buildings, schools, secure areas of an airport and correctional facilities are some places where guns are prohibited.

    Virginia law also prohibits concealed weapons where alcohol is served, so gun owners who want to carry their guns must do so openly at places like Giovanni's.

    Legally, if someone wanted to order a beer while "open carrying," they could do so, said Cascades resident Ed Levine, his gun on his hip. He added that it would be irresponsible to do so.

    None of those with guns at Giovanni's chose to drink alcohol during their meal.

    A recent law passed by the Virginia General Assembly would have allowed restaurants and clubs to decide whether or not concealed-carry permit holders may conceal firearms in their establishments for self-defense, but Gov. Tim Kaine (D) vetoed that bill, saying that guns and alcohol should not mix.

    Business owners have the right to ban guns from their private establishments.

    Garman actually changed banks because of its rule against guns.

    "I didn't want to give my business to a place that was anti-Second Amendment," he said.

    At Giovanni's, owner Ciro Schiano said he had no problem with weapons being there.

    "It's OK. We have police coming in with guns too," he said. "We feel more safe."

    In fact, the majority of diners at the restaurant, even those with children, said they weren't bothered by the sight of the guns.

    "As long as they're in holsters and not in their hands, it doesn't bother me," said Daniel Towle, who was there eating dinner with his wife, Carole, and their 3-year-old son, Thomas.

    "I didn't even notice," Carole said, "and even if I did, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's Virginia."

    Out of 10 patrons interviewed for this story, only one expressed discomfort with the situation, saying she didn't think guns were appropriate for a family restaurant. She declined to comment further.

    The gun owners said they rarely receive any kind of negative response while carrying.

    "I try to make people more aware of the law, but I could walk around all day and a lot of people wouldn't even notice it," said Eric Hansen, a resident of Harpers Ferry who grew up in Ashburn.

    While working late at night delivering newspapers in the Ashburn Farm area years ago, Hansen was stabbed. He said he's carried a gun ever since.

    "It used to be a way of life out here," he said. "As more and more city people moved in, the demographics changed and people didn't know what was going on."

    The gun owners agreed that a lot of people just aren't aware of their right to carry a gun openly in Virginia.

    "Most people who have anything to say are friends from Maryland or D.C.," said gun owner Shane Lamm, of Winchester. "They're kind of amazed because they're ignorant of the law."

    Last week, Levine had a discussion with some Leesburg Police officers who were misinformed on the law. When he asked them what they would do if they saw him carrying his weapon openly, they told him they would want to check his ID and permit status.

    Levine explained to carry a gun in the open in Virginia, you don't need a permit and there is no requirement to show identification to police.

    That incident prompted Leesburg Chief of Police Joseph Price to contact Levine through e-mail with a response.

    "The officers' information to you was incorrect," Price wrote. "We had already scheduled refresher training on this topic. Thank you for bringing it to my attention."

    Kraig Troxell, spokesman for the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office, said officers are well trained when it comes to gun laws in Virginia and he was unaware of any recent incidents involving a misunderstanding over the open carry law.

    Contact the reporter at ecoe@timespapers.com

    Times Community © 2007 | Loudoun Times-Mirror
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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