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Thread: Best Carry Condition for OC

  1. #1
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    I carry my gun in condition 3 (colt defender 1911). I'm fearful of Condition 1 and 2 more if I have a LEO confrontation. What condition do most of you carry? What is the best condition for OC to be safe and ready?

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    I carry my Glock condition 1. I guess I'm more concerned about a criminal confrontation than a LEO one and I want to be ready. You have a valid concern, but I haven't ever heard of a case where a permit holder or open carrier was negligently shot while being disarmed.

    Edit for spelling.

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    When I carry my 1911s, always cocked and locked.

    What kind of LEO confrontation are you anticipating?




    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    Mine is a revolver. I guess a modern SA/DA revolver, if loaded, is always in Condition One--minus the locked part of course. It ain't got no lock.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    RussP wrote:
    When I carry my 1911s, always cocked and locked.

    What kind of LEO confrontation are you anticipating?



    Well, there have been two recent incidents posted on this board.

    In the first one, the cop got all excited because he didn't know that a 1911 is supposed to be carried cocked and locked; he probably didn't know anything about single-acting auto-loaders. An excited, wide-eyed cop makes for a bad encounter.

    In the second incident, a forum member was arrested (illegally) for OC in public, and the cops surrounded him, grabbed him physically, while one or more cops simultaneously grabbed the butt of his pistol and tried to yank it out of its holster. They did not know how to release the tension device, and for all the arrestee knew, they did not know how to handle that type of pistol either.

    Having a bunch of adrenaline junkies yanking and twisting on your pistol is NEVER a good thing, and if that pistol is a cocked 1911, you can see the OP's concern. Especially since in all that yanking and pawing it's easy to negligently slip the thumb safety off.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    RussP wrote:
    When I carry my 1911s, always cocked and locked.

    What kind of LEO confrontation are you anticipating?



    Well, there have been two recent incidents posted on this board.

    In the first one, the cop got all excited because he didn't know that a 1911 is supposed to be carried cocked and locked; he probably didn't know anything about single-acting auto-loaders. An excited, wide-eyed cop makes for a bad encounter.

    In the second incident, a forum member was arrested (illegally) for OC in public, and the cops surrounded him, grabbed him physically, while one or more cops simultaneously grabbed the butt of his pistol and tried to yank it out of its holster. They did not know how to release the tension device, and for all the arrestee knew, they did not know how to handle that type of pistol either.

    Having a bunch of adrenaline junkies yanking and twisting on your pistol is NEVER a good thing, and if that pistol is a cocked 1911, you can see the OP's concern. Especially since in all that yanking and pawing it's easy to negligently slip the thumb safety off.
    A GREAT post from my friend of the Red Man's chopper,which says it all, IMHO!Recent acts of dangerous buffoonery on the part of the Norfolk cops has got me wondering just who are the REAL "assclowns"when it comes to the handling of defensive weaponry!

    TrueBrit.

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    RussP wrote:
    When I carry my 1911s, always cocked and locked.

    What kind of LEO confrontation are you anticipating?



    I'm not anticipating any specific LEO encounter, but as I have read many post of encounterson this board, it seem like there will be a great possibilty whenyou OC and it haven't happen yet while I havebeen OCing. Tomahawk post is on target with my concern. However good or bad an encounter goes...alot of things to me seem to factor in and effect:

    Gun type, carry condition, location, LEO attitude, your attitude, etc, etc.

    If or when an encounter happen... I want to walk away from it and tell you'll allabout it. In my old USAF Aircrew flying days. Somecrewmembers would talk about a what they consider abad landing. Really the only bad landing is the one you don't walk away from.



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    Best condition? Something that allows you to quickly and accurately bring your weapon to bear.

    That being said, I usually have my XD in, for all intents and purposes, in Condition 1.

    Although, right now, it's in pieces.... Along with a few other guns.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    dichamw wrote:
    I carry my gun in condition 3 (colt defender 1911).** I'm fearful of Condition 1 and 2 more if I have a LEO confrontation.* What condition do most of you carry?* What is the best condition for OC to be safe and ready?
    The condition of my 1911 when I carry it is usually a little dusty with some holster wear but it's always cocked and locked. It's for protection of myself and those around me and to carry it in any other condition, in my opinion, is just plain foolish. When you NEED your gun, you need it NOW and going from condition 3 to able to shoot takes too much time, too much thinking (your focus is on the attacker) and most important of all - too many hands! If you are deflecting a blow, carrying a child or are already injured you may not have the other hand available to rack the slide. What you are left with is a very expensive rock.

    To me, a pistol in condition 3 is like a seatbelt lying on the floor next to you... a life saving device rendered useless by not making it ready to do it's job.

    Read this and this to learn more.

    LoveMyCountry

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    Fortunately, I carry a DA/SA SiG. I don't have a safety and it is always in condition 1.

    Except when I clean it or am showing it off.

    I love when sheeple bring up the topic of safeties and I politely inform them my gun has none. That always gets a nice reaction from them.

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    Point to your head, then.

    Just like that kid "This is my weapon. A gun is simply a tool."
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    I used to carry in condition 3, but not I'm in condition 1 all the time. It's somewhat unnerving at first, but with a glock like mine, you're as safe as keeping your finger off the trigger.

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    Condition 1 scared me because with an XD I don't have a thumb'ed external safety (just the glock-style trigger)... then I remembered I have a grip safety just like you do on your 1911. Provided you have a holster with a trigger guard, there's no way you can grip and trigger at the same time, well none that I can think of, so that's the way I carry.
    -Unrequited

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    Barring interference from LE with ones everyday OC life... I would say: The most effective means for you to employ that weapon for it's intended purpose.

    For me? Condition 1. Why? Well... why carry a Glock in C1?? Oh right... it's that whole 'exposed deadly cocked hammer imminent danger force scare the sheeple effect'. I forgot... my bad. But then... aren't these the same ones that have a problem with the mere sight of a gun?

    Small story: I carry my 1911 in C1 all the time. All the time. Except of course, for the brief momentsneeded to clear it, to secure it in Base Security's personal weapons locker. (Don't worry, it's receipt-based) While coming onto base, I was escorted to the PWL to secure my weapon. Immediately prior to the PWL is the clearing barrel, (read coffee can), and I stopped to unload and show clear. As I went from CC to OC to holding my 1911, the watch commander looked shocked and said "Is that loaded and cocked?" As I continued my unloading procedure, I replied, "Yes sir, cocked and locked. That's the way it's supposed to be carried." He sorta shrugged and motioned for me to head into the PWL...

    By the way, please don't think I have anything against Glocks. The way I see it, if I needed a few reliable, durable, inexpensive, guns fora 2-3 gunself-defense system, they would more than likely be my first choice. Especially as I am on the move alot and selling might be an alternative to transporting/storing. (Think overseas duty) A gun is a gun, andguns arefun to shoot.:celebrate

    But hey, it's your life. Do as you will.

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    Forgot to mention, because I'm scatterbrained today:

    What if the LEO does have a AD or ND while attempting to remove/confiscate your weapon? I really hope nobody gets hurt that way, but wouldn't that seal his fate? What about the aspects of an unlawful detainment? What if the LEO ND'ed (new term) you in the foot? What if the LEO ND'ed himself in the foot? That'd be one heck of a hard mess to sort out.

    I hope it never happens, but the ramifications make me wonder...

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    OC = Condition 1 for autoloaders.

    Bad guys can see your gun. Assume you'll have no time to rack the slide andchamber a round.

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    When I was in the military, we had to carry condition 3, and we had warning ofdanger so we had time to lock and load. Carrying to protect ones self from a unexpected criminal assault with little to no warning requires carry condition 1.

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    CPL_in_WA wrote:
    Forgot to mention, because I'm scatterbrained today:

    What if the LEO does have a AD or ND while attempting to remove/confiscate your weapon? I really hope nobody gets hurt that way, but wouldn't that seal his fate? What about the aspects of an unlawful detainment? What if the LEO ND'ed (new term) you in the foot? What if the LEO ND'ed himself in the foot? That'd be one heck of a hard mess to sort out.

    I hope it never happens, but the ramifications make me wonder...
    The best way to avoid an accidental discharge would be to permit the weapon to be removed by the LEO.

    I can imagine that the LEO will remove carefullyand is aware to avoid the trigger is it is required to be pulled to cause the weapon to fire.

    If you resist in any way as you "protest" this violation of you rights... it could result in a more dangerous situation.

    If your going to be illegally arrested for OC... it is going to happen no matter what. If you were not going to be arrested for OC but being disarmed was "required" for some reason... your acting out could actually get you arrested.

    It is better to go with the program avoiding any reason to be arrested and file your complaint afterward.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    CPL_in_WA wrote:
    Forgot to mention, because I'm scatterbrained today:

    What if the LEO does have a AD or ND while attempting to remove/confiscate your weapon? I really hope nobody gets hurt that way, but wouldn't that seal his fate? What about the aspects of an unlawful detainment? What if the LEO ND'ed (new term) you in the foot? What if the LEO ND'ed himself in the foot? That'd be one heck of a hard mess to sort out.

    I hope it never happens, but the ramifications make me wonder...
    The best way to avoid an accidental discharge would be to permit the weapon to be removed by the LEO.

    I can imagine that the LEO will remove carefullyand is aware to avoid the trigger is it is required to be pulled to cause the weapon to fire.

    If you resist in any way as you "protest" this violation of you rights... it could result in a more dangerous situation.

    If your going to be illegally arrested for OC... it is going to happen no matter what. If you were not going to be arrested for OC but being disarmed was "required" for some reason... your acting out could actually get you arrested.

    It is better to go with the program avoiding any reason to be arrested and file your complaint afterward.



    I was referring to an LEO removing my weapon. Permitting someone more unfamiliar with my weapon/holster/knowledge of weapon status to remove my weapon is most assuredly not the best way to avoid a ND/AD.

    I can imagine an LEO might not show the proper safety precautions and cause a ND/AD. I can imagine little green men with purple beards. I would hope the LEO won't make any mistakes.

    I never said anything about resisting. We're referring to ND/AD. Not the purposeful use of said weapons. If I did resist, the possible outcomes would probably not involve ND/AD.

    "acting out"? Please refer to previous paragraph. Resisting arrest and lawful defense from false arrest are two very interesting topics. I would likely engage in that discussion, if and when it were to happen, but I don't see the relevance as it applies to a LEO 'merely' trying to feel safer.

    "go with the program"? Has anyone been arrested, even if they were in the right? Should I then avoid those 'rightful' things that could get me arrested/detained/harassed?

    For discussion: Why should I go with the program? If I am in the right, and I am arrested, LEO loses, and he knows it. That's the reason for all these 'detainments' and 'harassments'.

    mmm...

    C.O.B. ... yayy!! liberty call!!!:celebrate

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    CPL_in_WA wrote:



    I was referring to an LEO removing my weapon. Permitting someone more unfamiliar with my weapon/holster/knowledge of weapon status to remove my weapon is most assuredly not the best way to avoid a ND/AD.

    I can imagine an LEO might not show the proper safety precautions and cause a ND/AD. I can imagine little green men with purple beards. I would hope the LEO won't make any mistakes.

    I never said anything about resisting. We're referring to ND/AD. Not the purposeful use of said weapons. If I did resist, the possible outcomes would probably not involve ND/AD.

    "acting out"? Please refer to previous paragraph. Resisting arrest and lawful defense from false arrest are two very interesting topics. I would likely engage in that discussion, if and when it were to happen, but I don't see the relevance as it applies to a LEO 'merely' trying to feel safer.

    "go with the program"? Has anyone been arrested, even if they were in the right? Should I then avoid those 'rightful' things that could get me arrested/detained/harassed?

    For discussion: Why should I go with the program? If I am in the right, and I am arrested, LEO loses, and he knows it. That's the reason for all these 'detainments' and 'harassments'.

    mmm...

    C.O.B. ... yayy!! liberty call!!!:celebrate
    Not sure your your banging your head.. I guess your looking for something VERY SPECIFIC.

    When I addressed the ideaof resistance... It was to identify that THIS is when it would be likely to happen. I was expounding on your question is all.

    Is seems that your talking about the LEO removing your gun causing it to discharge due to their lack on knowledge of your gun.. right?

    To be honest.. unless your gun goes off by pulling it out bysqueezing on the grip with a thumb and forefinger... the LEO is not going to have any problems.

    The LEO hashad gun training and understands as with ALL GUNS.... you have to PULL THE TRIGGER!! What gun do you have that can fire by some other way?

    If you do have a level III holster that takes a Masters Degree to figure out, the LEO couldask how it operates.As an option...the gun and holster can easily be removed as one. Pancake style, clip on, or belt loops.

    Let's say you decide to "resist" the LEOs attempt to disarm you being done for "officer safety".... You "accidentally" hit the LEO with your elbow. Now your needlessly getting charged with assault on a LEO. Will it fly in court? Maybe, maybe not... but now your going to court and paying for a lawyer.

    I am going to guess you have not seen any of the videos where the LEO pats a guy down who is discovered to have a handgun. He resists and a gun fight is started with the LEO. In the end.. he is shot and sometimes killed by the LEO.

    Is it really worth itto take a chance at getting shot just to keep your firearm on your hip? As I have stated before... you can alwaysremain injury free and file a complaint afterward. You have to pick your fights and this is not one of them.

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    I think what he was refering to was a ND while being disarmed by a leo and not resisting.Scenario 1 leo in front of individual 2 or more flank and rear decide to disarm citizenbasic swarm tactic. Along the lines of what happened with Chet.

    "In the following seconds Chet had hands all over him. One officer was tugging at Chet's pistol, having much difficulty removing it. Chet was worried about an accidental discharge with his family being literally feet away.

    Other officers were pulling Chet's arms around his back and cuffing him. Chet offered no resistance."




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    My SA/DA ruger doesn't have a safety so I carry condition three.

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    My SA/DA ruger doesn't have a safety so I carry condition three.
    Why not condition 2? Do you not have a firing pin block in case of dropping the gun on the exposed hammer?
    -Unrequited

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    I carry my P229/40 loaded, round in the chamber...as designed--in a thumbreak holster. I have a SERPA on order--as I prefer the open top holster like when I CC (Blade-tech IWB)

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