Unlawfully detained at Southcenter mall

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BluesBear wrote:

Now THERE is a lawsuit.

Most of the Tribal Police I've encountered are quilty of impersonating a police officer anyway.

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Definitely so! I had some recent communication with their Chief of Police. What an experience. He is still living in the days when his father was illegally selling cigarettes and liquor and fueding with the State.

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BluesBear wrote:

I have noticed for years that no matter how scruffy I was dressed if anyone saw a badge next to my handgun they never gave me a second thought. I have sais before that if anyone was worried about "flashing" the sheeple, then a badge worn on the belt would placate 99.44% of them.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the last thing I want to do is placate the uninformed masses. I want to educate them. While I generally dress neatly, I do not dress like a cop or security officer because I specifically don't want to give off that vibe. People need to see that folks other than cops and security guards own and carry firearms, and that they are just normal people who are no threat to anyone. If we all try to pass ourselves off as off-duty cops, then we will never get that point across.

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Cue-Ball wrote:

BluesBear wrote:

I have noticed for years that no matter how scruffy I was dressed if anyone saw a badge next to my handgun they never gave me a second thought. I have sais before that if anyone was worried about "flashing" the sheeple, then a badge worn on the belt would placate 99.44% of them.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the last thing I want to do is placate the uninformed masses. I want to educate them. While I generally dress neatly, I do not dress like a cop or security officer because I specifically don't want to give off that vibe. People need to see that folks other than cops and security guards own and carry firearms, and that they are just normal people who are no threat to anyone. If we all try to pass ourselves off as off-duty cops, then we will never get that point across.

Click to expand...

+1. Exactly what I was going to say, since no one had yet.

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Cue-Ball wrote

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the last thing I want to do is placate the uninformed masses. I want to educate them. While I generally dress neatly, I do not dress like a cop or security officer because I specifically don't want to give off that vibe. People need to see that folks other than cops and security guards own and carry firearms, and that they are just normal people who are no threat to anyone. If we all try to pass ourselves off as off-duty cops, then we will never get that point across.

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Amen. When I attended Pride in Seattle Center, I wore a white t-shirt, cargo shorts, rainbow pride rings, and a digital recorder.

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Cue-Ball wrote:

BluesBear wrote:

I have noticed for years that no matter how scruffy I was dressed if anyone saw a badge next to my handgun they never gave me a second thought. I have sais before that if anyone was worried about "flashing" the sheeple, then a badge worn on the belt would placate 99.44% of them.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the last thing I want to do is placate the uninformed masses. I want to educate them. While I generally dress neatly, I do not dress like a cop or security officer because I specifically don't want to give off that vibe. People need to see that folks other than cops and security guards own and carry firearms, and that they are just normal people who are no threat to anyone. If we all try to pass ourselves off as off-duty cops, then we will never get that point across.

Click to expand...

+P+ Cueball.

I think the .54% not fooled and real LEO's would make you regret it. I'll admit though the thought of getting the cheeziest plastic shiney badge sounded kind of funny/spiteful. The thought of the hassle and/or arrest makes it not so funny.

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I really don't want to placate the uninformed masses either that's the reason why I am here. Iwant to help acclimate them to the sight of a firearm. I want to help educate John & Jane Sheeple that more good people carry guns than bad people.

I feel that off duty LEOs should open carry more often. That would do a lot to get people used to seeing guns on people not in a uniform. My reference to the CC Badges was an aside to mycuriousity as to the intentions behind the OCDO "Patch" used on hats and shirts. Would not wearing one of those cool OCDO Hats while open carrying not also give the impression that the wearer was a LEO?

And I NEVER implied that anyone should pass themselves off as a LEO. Back in the 1990s in Kentucky, there was actually some discussion among legislators about having concealed permit holders be required to wear some sort of identifier (badges were discussed) anytime theywere carrying. Thankfully that idea was discarded along with publishing the names of permit applicants in the newspapers.

One of the reasons I relocated in Washington State was the gun friendly attitude here. I even gave up owning Title II toys to live here. (We really need to do something about that too.) What I have found here is that there are many people with CPLs. And it seems everyone I meet owns guns. But I also see the dumbing down that's occuring since there is so much concealed carry but almost ZERO open carry. I have yet to see anyone else open carrying except myself. When I first moved here i was even told by several gun people that open carry was unlawful. It wasn't until an old retired FBI friend of mine pointed out to me that it wasn't.

Something I have discoveredamong the non-gun community is that they have absolutely no idea that there are so many people licensed by the state to carry. Most don't even know it's possible. IF everyone who had a CPL would open carry just one complete day a month people would be amazed. We have all been brainwashed for so long to worry about printing or flashing that we have become part of the problem.

The word needs to get out that ordinary people have been carrying guns in Washington stste for 70 years. It's high time WE were allowed out of the closet.

I found out about this forum from the WAC Gun News.I havelived here for almost a decade now and I amjust now hearing about this "movement".

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As a former Judge (Montana) and a 30 year retired LEO I fully support your position. I would recommend an attorney in the Bremerton area who would be a great choice for you.

Ihave worked against him as an investigator when he fought and won against the Federal Gov't. and at the same time consider him a friend and supporter of Open Carry. He likes a good fight with the "powers to be"

He is a former Police officer who was medically retired and then became an attorney. Thus, he knows the ins and outs from both sides.

I will contact him and apprise him of the situation and if willing, will provide you his contact information.


The "concealed carry badges " can be more of a liability than a help. Case in point, you walk into the local "stop and rob....er....shop and interrupt a robbery in progress. The Perp or his accomplice see the "badge" and bingo....you da man.. bang... bang


Dr of Triggernometry

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Case in point, you walk into the local "stop and rob....er....shop and interrupt a robbery in progress.

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I get so tired of hearing this from people who just don't get it.You wear the badge CONCEALED.If you're carrying your gun concealed that is. No one should ever see the badge unless they could alsosee the gun. Either you see both or you see neither.

The funny thing is I see this scenario all of the time on forums from people who are speaking out against open carry. My personal take is thatyou should never be so situationally unaware that you walk right into the middle of a stickup anyway.

When you open carry you MUST become even more aware of your surroundings. Retention becomes a big priority too.

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BluesBear

I even gave up owning Title II toys to live here. (We really need to do something about that too.)

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I agree completely. I've actually been considering moving so that I can obtain and legally fire those, (I would much rather stay in Washington)


Trigger Dr

Welcome

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Bluebear,

Sorry that I am not as well informed as you.

As far as being one of those that "just does not get it" I would suggest you re think your thoughts before posting them. You do not know me or any more than what I have posted, and making a judgement based on that limited information puts you in the same genre as some of the LEOs as mentioned earlier. I do not intend to start a "war" here, but will defend my statements to the end. If an appology is in order, it will be made. If eating crow is in order that too will be done without cry baby antics.

It does happen though, that there are people out there who just want to wear a badge along with the gun for reasons that we would never understand. Wanna be's if you will.

Impersonation of a LEO takes more than displaying a badge. One must attempt to get information that would normally be available only to a LEO, or an overt act under the color of law that would lead one to believe the person was a LEO.

Cheers, have a great day

Dr of Triggernometry

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Cue-Ball wrote:

BluesBear wrote:

I have noticed for years that no matter how scruffy I was dressed if anyone saw a badge next to my handgun they never gave me a second thought. I have sais before that if anyone was worried about "flashing" the sheeple, then a badge worn on the belt would placate 99.44% of them.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the last thing I want to do is placate the uninformed masses. I want to educate them. While I generally dress neatly, I do not dress like a cop or security officer because I specifically don't want to give off that vibe. People need to see that folks other than cops and security guards own and carry firearms, and that they are just normal people who are no threat to anyone. If we all try to pass ourselves off as off-duty cops, then we will never get that point across.

Click to expand...

Exactly! Well said.

Please help our growing organization! http://www.nwcdl.org/

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If anyone really has the desire to look more "official" while carrying open or concealed you could simply get a belt ID holder and put your CPL in it. Then you aren't in danger of being arrested/detained for "impersonating and officer" with a badge of some sort.

I personally wouldn't do it because I don't think it is neccessary, but I don't think it isn't prudent for those who are nervous about what the uninformed populace thinks.

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BluesBear wrote:

Now THERE is a lawsuit.

Most of the Tribal Police I've encountered are quilty of impersonating a police officer anyway.

Click to expand...

How so? They are empowered by the state as a limited power LEO.

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joeroket wrote:

BluesBear wrote:

Now THERE is a lawsuit.

Most of the Tribal Police I've encountered are quilty of impersonating a police officer anyway.

Click to expand...

How so? They are empowered by the state as a limited power LEO.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure that was a joke.

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So are there any updates? Was a lawsuit filed?

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Agreed, I have just read the entire thread (haven't seen it before), its 1am and damn it, this is the last post!

What happened in the end! did Expvideo get the girl? Did the nasty LOE get coal for Christmas? Did the Mall apologize?

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I think a Title 18 criminal lawsuit might be in order, to sue the cops involved PERSONALLY with criminal chargesrather than just suing the Police Dept.



Also see this website by Randy Kelton from We The People Radio Network, Randy's site is http://www.jurisimprudence.com about criminal suits and the power of Grand Juries "the 4th branch of Government" I also have contact info on another person who can give you information on how to sue any public official in their persoanl capacity rather than their Official capacity which often times the public official can claim "immunity" becuase of their office. They can't do that when you file a criminal suit agains them in their personal capacity.



DEPRIVATION OF RIGHTS UNDER COLOR OF LAW

Summary:

• Section 242 of Title 18 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.
  For the purpose of Section 242, acts under "color of law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official's lawful authority, if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.
  The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term, or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if any.

[align=center]TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242

• 
  Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

[align=right][size=-1]Return to the Criminal Section Home Page
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Wheelgunner wrote:

Agreed, I have just read the entire thread (haven't seen it before), its 1am and damn it, this is the last post!

What happened in the end! did Expvideo get the girl? Did the nasty LOE get coal for Christmas? Did the Mall apologize?

Click to expand...

Actually Wheelgunner, Aaron (expvideo) already had the girl, his fiancée, prior to this event and she's one helluva catch!

As for the rest, I have no idea. I haven't really heard from Aaron for a while.

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Wheelgunner wrote:

...What happened in the end! did Expvideo get the girl? Did the nasty LOE get coal for Christmas? Did the Mall apologize?

Click to expand...

I was wondering too - I read earlier the talk of a lawsuit (which I would think would involve a FOIA request), letter to the department, etc. Whatever happened to all of that?

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I know! I met them at the Cabela's get together and the pizza night. I just wanted to know if he had proceeded with his suit.