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Thread: WHEN WILL OC COME UP

  1. #1
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    Does anyone have any ideal when Open Carry will come up in Texas? What is it going to take to pass?

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    I still can't believe that a year later CC/OC'ing, I had always thought if one state had OC it would be Texas.

    A great resource (I assume) would be your version of VCDL, the Texas Citizens Defense League... http://www.txcdl.org/
    I'm sure their at the forefront or know exactly what's what concerning OC pushes through law. It's on their frontpage, but I'm sleepy (and lazy heh).
    -Unrequited

  3. #3
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    Greetings carlson1 and unrequited. TCDL is tirelessly working on OC in Texas! Our membership and organization is getting larger and stronger all the time! WeWILL be ready for the next Texas legislative session. Believe it or not - as much as OC seems logical to us - there are many in Texas who either oppose OC or are just complacent and don't see the point. There are many Texans who are satisfied with the status quo. We knew when we started this movement it would be an uphill climb. Its easy for armchair observers to be critical but the fact of the matter is this is no small task. Many in OC states who are allowed to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights take that freedom for granted.Somemay not realize the huge amount of sacrifice and effort that went in to gaining that freedom and that goes on behind the scenes by great organizations such as VCDL and AZCDL to maintain and protect that right. The same is true for TCDL only we are a relatively young organization and it takes time to set up the structure, and build alliances and momentum. Believe me, the process has taken much longer than I anticipated in the beginning and at times has been discouraging but every week brings new successes as well as dozens of new members willing to join with us in the fight. My plea is for Texans who believe in Open Carry to not loose faith but to stand together with us in this great quest.

    Thank you for your continuouspatience and support!

    Gary Williams

    President, TCDL

    txopencarry@txcdl.org

    http://www.txcdl.org



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    I am amazed at our CHL people who are against OC. Their statements sometimes are no different the statements the Brady Campaign makes.

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    You and I are on that same Forum. I know what you mean (and who you mean).

    carlson1 wrote:
    I am amazed at our CHL people who are against OC. Their statements sometimes are no different the statements the Brady Campaign makes.

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    It is sad that people:
    1. Think the 2nd Amen. is for hunting.
    2. Think they must keep and bear arms CONCEALED.
    3. Think the Bad Guy is going to snatch your gun just because they can see it.

    Most officers who have their guns taken away was in a struggle to arrest, not standing in line at 7-11 to get their free coffee!

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    You know I have hated and despised the state I'm stationed in now (NC) about the ONLYthing that I have truly enjoyed outhere is our ability to Open Carry even without a permit.

    I will hopefully be getting orders home to the great state of Texas within the next year and I can tell you I am overjoyed to come home for more than a week at a time but I will say that I will miss being able to OC.

    I too will join the fight for OC in Texas.

    From Palo Pinto myself.

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    carlson1 wrote:
    I am amazed at our CHL people who are against OC. Their statements sometimes are no different the statements the Brady Campaign makes.
    It is a nation wide problem. People are so conditioned to believe in a benevolent state, that they revel in their anointed status as a privileged and special "licenced" carrier. I remember when I got my first license. I was so ecstatic and grateful to my Sheriff that I was allowed to become one of the chosen! I would show offmy permit to friends in jurisdictions that couldn't get one. I felt so very special! It is almost cult like and when just "anybody" can strap on a holster and OC it takes some of their thunder away. My .02 only and don't wish to cast too many aspersions at privileged "licensed" holders. I also find the discussions of the"Right to Carry a privilege" laws to be oxymoronic, consideringthat it issubject toreversal by an unfriendly change ofpower at the ballet box.

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    cato wrote:
    It is a nation wide problem. People are so conditioned to believe in a benevolent state, that they revel in their anointed status as a privileged and special "licenced" carrier. I remember when I got my first license. I was so ecstatic and grateful to my Sheriff that I was allowed to become one of the chosen! I would show offmy permit to friends in jurisdictions that couldn't get one. I felt so very special! It is almost cult like and when just "anybody" can strap on a holster and OC it takes some of their thunder away. My .02 only and don't wish to cast too many aspersions at privileged "licensed" holders. I also find the discussions of the"Right to Carry a privilege" laws to be oxymoronic, consideringthat it issubject toreversal by an unfriendly change ofpower at the ballet box.
    Well, there are SOME advantages to requiring a course and demonstrating proficiency to get a CHL. Your CHL then stands for something; it identifies you as having the knowledge and skill necessary to know when to shoot and how to shoot so you don't end up killing an innocent. Thatimplies however thatthe vast majority of gun owners, who DON'T have CHLs, are idiots. I don't for a second think that, but you have to admit that just in general you assume the other guy knows what he's doing far more often than you might if you knew the whole story. I admit I'm not sure how I'd react if every gun owner in Texas carried openly the day it became legal to do so. There are a lot of guys I know with a "I have a gun it's my right to have my gun and I can use it as I please and if you stand in my way you're going to end up with a few more openings than you had this morning" mentality.

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    I am in Texas. It is my belief that my CHL is against my God giving rights. I should need NO CLASS; NO CERTIFICATION, etc. . . to defend myself and my family.

    "Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission."


  11. #11
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    carlson1 wrote:
    I am in Texas. It is my belief that my CHL is against my God giving rights. I should need NO CLASS; NO CERTIFICATION, etc. . . to defend myself and my family.
    K. I'm in Texas too. It's my belief that, should SHTF, my focus should be on whether theBG is pointed in my direction and not whether the threeGGs in the area can hit the broad side of a barn, or whether I'm being "flanked" by aGG who has notaffirmedhis target. Friendly fire isn't. The fact you have a CHL which requires qualification before issuance/renewal means that, as much as I can be assured of anything else in such a situation, I can be assured that you will firstaffirm your target and second willhit the target. Regardless of the fact that it does reduce your liberty,a person untrained ingun handling can easily be as dangerous to the public as a psychopath/sociopath.

    Now, before I get flambe'd, that's popular opinion, not just my own, andthus following popular opinion, the Statecan requireproficiency for carry, but they cannot force you the gun ownerto spend money on a class nor can they charge more than is necessary to cover processing costs.Currently the $200-odd you spend to acquire certification is asignificant monetary hurdle, and the course is a time hurdle. If you can passa written and range test with self-study, similar to a written andpractical driving test practiced for at home, you thenpay what it costs the State to process your records.Combined with shall-issue licensingthat no longer has prohibitivemonetary or time requirementsand a license being valid for concealed AND open carry, a person so inclined can receivea carry permiteither atno cost or at a cost that presents no hurdle totheir ability to carry (let's say just for sake of argument the course and license can be had for the same cost as a DL license fee: $24 in Texas), and can then carry whatever they want wherever they want however they want,once they prove proficiency.

    If you saythe state has no powerto require proficiency, I categorically disagree. You have the right to choose counsel via the 5th Amendment; the law can and does require by law thatwhoever you choose to represent you, if not yourself,must be a member of the bar in your state and by his membership has proved competence in his field.Your autonomy in modern America, and therefore your liberty (a basic human right), are dependent on owning and operating a motor vehicle. One could say you have a right therefore to own and operate a vehicle. It progresses that you have the responsibility to operate it safely, and the state can and does make that responsibility law by requiring proficiency via a driving test before issuing a driver's license. Your driver's license implies you have demonstrated you know how to drive safely; whether you do or not is up to you and is enforced by penalties and liabilityfor failure to obey the laws. Proficiency can be present without a license, but should drivers on public roadsnot need a license because they CAN drive safely without having gone through the process? Most would say no. Your CHL is exactly the same: it implies you have demonstrated you know when and how to use a gun effectively and as safely as can be expected; whether you do or not is alsoup to you and alsoenforced by penalties and liability for failure to obey the laws. Proficiency with a weapon can be present without a license, but should those who carry publicly not need a license because they CAN carry safely without one? I hold that the answer is still no. What I find wrong is not that a carry permit is a hurdle, but that it is a prohibitive hurdle for many who have either insufficient time or money to go through the process.

    I have not yet seen any convincing argument that, because the RKBA is enumerated while the right to own and operate a vehicle is unenumerated, it is somehow stronger or less subject to regulation. If you argue that licensing firearm carriers is unconstitutional, then you must, by the text of the 9th Amendment ("The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people") argue that driver's licenses are unconstitutional because they regulate a basic human right; the right to freely travel and the right to own and make use ofproperty, which are universal rights and protected by the 9th Amendment. As this unenumerated right carries no less weight than an enumerated one, it should be no more subject to regulation. If on the other hand you agree to driver's licenses, it holds in reverse as well, but there should be no hurdle other than a standardlevel of knowledge and skill.

  12. #12
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    carlson1 wrote:
    It is sad that people:
    1. Think the 2nd Amen. is for hunting.
    2. Think they must keep and bear arms CONCEALED.
    3. Think the Bad Guy is going to snatch your gun just because they can see it.

    Most officers who have their guns taken away was in a struggle to arrest, not standing in line at 7-11 to get their free coffee!
    i totally agree. i dont hunt/never plan on hunting (i like my meat pre cooked lol) and they actually think a bad guy can get the gun off my side... well... from what ive seen on taped encounters where a bad guy went in to rob a liquor store, the second the cashier pulls out a shotgun, that bad guy is OUT the door... they dont wanna get hurt, they just want the money lol. but as most guys will ASSUME... "o wow, he has a gun... hes prolly a cop or military... he must have more skill/education in fighting and guns than i do" so theyll generally back off, or avoid doing anything bad entirely. liberals always tryin to take our rights away, yet they dont realize that their right to free speech is the SAME THING as our right to keep and bear arms... lol disgusting isnt it? haha

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!

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