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Thread: Can the state ask you to remove firearm or leave state property?

  1. #1
    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Found this while "surfin" the net. The text below is from meeting minutes of the Trustees of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts. No follow up was found in my searching.

    Ms. Amato addressed the issue of visitors having weapons visible in the Museum as a man recently came to the Museum with a side arm in view. Security asked that he secure the weapon in his car or elsewhere and he refused and left the Museum. This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property. Special Counsel and Assistant Attorney General, Joan Murphy, said she would consult with her office downtown for further research on the issue and report back to us.


    From reading the minutes, obviously an education issue, but back to my question: Can the state ask you to remove the firearm or leave state property? It isn't reported that he was asked to leave and I'm assuming the "security" person is a rent-a-cop.

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    I've open carried at the VA Museum of Fine Arts. The security ninjas swarmed me, demanded my information (which I did not give them), and told me to leave. I told them no, and they walked away and left me alone.

    I believe somebody got kicked out of there for OC a few weeks before I went there, and the issue was brought to their attention.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I would think unless they have something in the code or VAC prohibiting carry, the answer is no. Unfortunately they will sometimes try anyway. Here is the source of that inquiry.



    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...53&FILTER=
    ***********************************************
    3. Richmond Museum of Fine Arts playing games with gun owners!
    ***********************************************

    As VCDL members, you are pretty well versed on Virginia gun laws and
    know your rights. Heaven help you if you don't and you come up
    against a security guard trying to trick and intimidate you.

    In this case, the hapless guard decided to pick on VCDL Board member
    Dennis O'Connor. BAD mistake:

    Dennis sent me this email:

    --

    I went back to the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts today for the first
    time since the Oct. 28th conflict with their security guards over
    open carry.

    In the newspaper article reporting on that incident, the Museum
    spokesperson admitted they had no authority to ban guns, and said in
    the future they would asked armed patrons to leave their firearms
    outside, but would not further bother them if the patron refused.

    Today I was open carrying the full size Springfield Armory XD in .45
    ACP as I had the last time, when a security guard approached me and
    said "Excuse me, sir. Are you aware of the Code of Virginia? I'm
    going to ask you to take your firearm back to your vehicle for the
    comfort of our visitors." [HAHAHAHAHA! Dennis aware of the Code of
    Virginia? Well, if you consider someone able to quote the gun laws
    chapter and verse as "knowing the Code of Virginia," then I would
    say, "yes!" HAHAHAHA! - PVC]

    When I looked at her and said "Sorry, but no," she quickly said "OK,
    then have a pleasant tour of the museum" and walked away. She did
    come back a few minutes later with who I suspect was a guard
    supervisor, and the two of them stood watching me at a distance for a
    few minutes between intermittent radio calls before leaving again.
    [Dennis should have said, "Excuse me. Do you know the Code of
    Virginia? I'm going to have to ask you to turn those radios off and
    give them to me!" - PVC]

    While I cannot fault them for quickly dropping the subject this time
    when I again refused to comply, It is rather sneaky of them to have
    implied that I was in violation of the law when I certainly was not.
    It is undoubtedly meant to intimidate those who do not have a full
    understanding of their rights or the law.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    doug23838 wrote:
    Found this while "surfin" the net.¬*¬* The text below is from meeting minutes of the Trustees of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts.¬* No follow up was found in my searching.¬*¬*

    Ms. Amato addressed the issue of visitors having weapons visible in the Museum as a man recently came to the Museum with a side arm in view. Security asked that he secure the weapon in his car or elsewhere and he refused and left the Museum. This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property.¬* Special Counsel and Assistant Attorney General, Joan Murphy, said she would consult with her¬* office downtown for further research on the issue and report back to us.


    From reading the minutes, obviously an education issue, but back to my question:¬* Can the state ask you to remove the firearm or leave state property?¬*¬* It isn't reported that he was asked to leave and I'm assuming the "security" person is a rent-a-cop.
    It is interesting that the question was raised in Nov 2006. How long would it take them to get the answer and report it in the minutes? Folks on this forum seem to be able to find and report this sort of thing in a matter of just moments.

    Kind of makes you go Hum.

    regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    doug23838 wrote:
    This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property.

    There is no "open carry" law in Virginia. Nor is there a "red shirt" law. Thoerefore, you may wear a gun or red shirt as desired.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I would think unless they have something in the code or VAC prohibiting carry, the answer is no. Unfortunately they will sometimes try anyway. Here is the source of that inquiry.
    What is VAC?

    Would someone PM me?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Isn't this the place where Phillip Van Cleave and Dennis O'Connor had their issue? And all was resolved in favor of the citizens?
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Tess wrote:
    Isn't this the place where Phillip Van Cleave and Dennis O'Connor had their issue? And all was resolved in favor of the citizens?
    It appears I'm late to the party.

    And, not didn'tthink itthrough completely before I posed my query, I know the anser is no. They can't make you leave the DMV, the library, the museum, etc.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    VAC = Virginia Administrative Code
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Here is a link the the VAC
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+men+SRR
    One regulation that you will find there is the infamous VCU gun ban.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    There is no "open carry" law in Virginia.
    But these people wish there were an open carry law - a law forbidding open carry.

    Upon their "further review," I'm sure they'll be astonished to learn that they really ARE powerless to harass law abiding gun owners.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    Found this while "surfin" the net. The text below is from meeting minutes of the Trustees of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts. No follow up was found in my searching.

    Ms. Amato addressed the issue of visitors having weapons visible in the Museum as a man recently came to the Museum with a side arm in view. Security asked that he secure the weapon in his car or elsewhere and he refused and left the Museum. This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property. Special Counsel and Assistant Attorney General, Joan Murphy, said she would consult with her office downtown for further research on the issue and report back to us.


    From reading the minutes, obviously an education issue, but back to my question: Can the state ask you to remove the firearm or leave state property? It isn't reported that he was asked to leave and I'm assuming the "security" person is a rent-a-cop.
    It is interesting that the question was raised in Nov 2006. How long would it take them to get the answer and report it in the minutes? Folks on this forum seem to be able to find and report this sort of thing in a matter of just moments.

    Kind of makes you go Hum.

    regards
    Maybe they aren't as smart as we are?
    :celebrate

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property.

    There is no "open carry" law in Virginia. Nor is there a "red shirt" law. Thoerefore, you may wear a gun or red shirt as desired.
    I'll frequently even go as far as to wear a gun AND a red shirt.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    jbobmurph wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    This led us to talk to state officials and we found that Virginia has an open carry law in place except on school property.

    There is no "open carry" law in Virginia. Nor is there a "red shirt" law. Thoerefore, you may wear a gun or red shirt as desired.
    I'll frequently even go as far as to wear a gun AND a red shirt.
    Not for me I've seen to much star trek to think thats a good idea.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Good one LW.


    MM Trifecta!!................
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Good one LW.


    MM Trifecta!!................
    Quadfecta....if that is even a word...

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