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Thread: Why do women need a gun in Manassas?

  1. #1
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    This happened just a couple minutes from my home. Of course, this is an area of town that myself and my family avoid.

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13728850/detail.html

    Woman Beaten, Raped Behind Townhouse In Manassas

    POSTED: 10:10 pm EDT July 20, 2007
    UPDATED: 11:44 pm EDT July 20, 2007

    MANASSAS, Va. -- Police said an 18-year-old woman was raped in Manassas last Saturday morning. They said she was beaten and then sexually assaulted around 1:45 a.m. while waiting for her boyfriend on Buckner Road.

    The victim said a man approached her from behind, grabbed her neck and dragged her behind a row of townhouses.She said she was punched repeatedly and then raped.

    "You just need to know where your kids are and you need to keep them off the streets because you can't trust people nowadays," Buckner Road resident Karen Robinson said.

    The assault did not end until three men walking through the area witnessed the attack and her attacker ran, she said. Police were then called.

    The attack was the latest crime on the road, which has had a series of problems.

    Last year, neighbors said a man was killed on Buckner Road. Neighbors said police are a common fixture in the area.

    Candy Savannah ran the neighborhood watch program for years."I think it was an opportune moment for that element, he found the young lady and I am so sad, I really am," Savannah said.

    With no solid leads and a vague description of the suspect, police said they are counting on neighbors for help.

    Neighbors said it was a brutal crime that has left them all on edge.

    "I have a niece and she's only 17 and we worry about her going just from one little cubby hole on this side to the other side," Buckner Road resident Linda Jackson said.

    Police said they want to speak with the three men who saw the attack. They do not know their identities.

    Police are offering a $1,000 reward for any information that leads to an arrest.

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    Out of three men, one couldn't chase that guy? If I was by myself I would probably would have yelled 'Call 911' as I ran by the victim and chased the guy.

    Not to detract from the story, but I like to premeditate scenarios.

    You're the guy that spots the assault and start approaching from 30 yards. You're armed. What do you do?





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    nickerj1 wrote:
    You're the guy that spots the assault and start approaching from 30 yards.¬* You're armed.¬* What do you do?
    If I'm alone, stay with the girl and call 911 because you don't know that there was only one guy assaulting her.

    If with a friend, have them stay with the girl and give chase. If that were my sister, mother, cousin, or friend, I wouldn't be able to live with myself or look the her in the eye letting the person get away without doing my best to try and catch them.
    -Unrequited

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    nickerj1 wrote:
    Out of three men, one couldn't chase that guy? If I was by myself I would probably would have yelled 'Call 911' as I ran by the victim and chased the guy.

    Not to detract from the story, but I like to premeditate scenarios.

    You're the guy that spots the assault and start approaching from 30 yards. You're armed. What do you do?





    First i would yell at the guy to stop as i pulled out my cell phone to call the police. Hopefully this would be enough to make the guy break off his attack. I'd try to get the best possible description of the guy to give police over the phone. If he ran away i would not chase him. This could be viewed as me escalating the situation if i had to use deadly force. If he broke off his attack from her & came after me i would draw & fire.............................................. ...............DF1

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    Um, hop off from the rooftops, land silently behind him, and snap his neck?

    Seriously, that seems like a flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants situation for me...

    When in doubt, wing it!
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Defense of others whose lives are being threatened is grounds for deadly force. Ifa man is obviously overpowering and sexually assaulting a woman, he gets one warning as the safety comes off and the sights come up. What happens next is his choice. The cell phone is for later. If he runs I would probably not give chase. I go to assist the victim and await the police.

    Of course, this is all theoretical to us now, you have to see through the fog and confusion and make sure you're not stepping into a domestic violence situation, picking the wrong side, etc. But I am assuming you see that a rape is taking place early in the encounter. Of course, you must also make sure you don't shoot the rape victim, as they are bound to be one on top of the other. Don't let tunnel vision keep you from seeing any buddies he has nearby.

    But stopping a rape is one of the cardinal reasons for states to adopt CC laws, isn't it? Yes, you have to be very careful not to use your gun unless you really have to. But you have to be ready to use if the time comes, too, otherwise it's a just a liability.

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    Good thoughts all. Permit me to contribute.

    I'd give him the one chance, VERY LOUDLY so there can be no mistake.

    You never know with complete certaintly if these are two consenting adults who are playing noisily.

    As you give chase, if others are remaining with the victim, remember very carefully that he is giving up the assault and withdrawing. This cancels the useof deadly force against him. Worse, it may open the door to now you are the aggressor. Remembering that it will be a jury, civil or criminal, that decides the facts, you may have a wily attornery accuse you of attempted murder. No? You were chasing him with a drawn gun, screaming at him weren't you?

    How about, "My client, althoughadmitting therape,does not deserve life in prison for killing the Good Samaritan. My client thought it was the brother of the girl who intended to avenge his sister by killing my client with the gun clearly visible by his hand, not in his holster,in the police photos you will see. My client shot the Good Samaritan in self-defense."

    You will want to think about this carefully before the scenario presents itself.

    Oh. Heh, heh. Don't forget the police will be looking for a rapist. What do you think will happen when they see you running? Or, running with a gun in hand?

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Oh. Heh, heh. Don't forget the police will be looking for a rapist. What do you think will happen when they see you running? Or, running with a gun in hand?
    There's a Dirty Harry joke in there somewhere, something about collecting for the Red Cross...

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    Wooley wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Defense of others whose lives are being threatened is grounds for deadly force. Ifa man is obviously overpowering and sexually assaulting a woman, he gets one warning as the safety comes off and the sights come up. What happens next is his choice. The cell phone is for later. If he runs I would probably not give chase. I go to assist the victim and await the police.

    Of course, this is all theoretical to us now, you have to see through the fog and confusion and make sure you're not stepping into a domestic violence situation, picking the wrong side, etc. But I am assuming you see that a rape is taking place early in the encounter. Of course, you must also make sure you don't shoot the rape victim, as they are bound to be one on top of the other. Don't let tunnel vision keep you from seeing any buddies he has nearby.

    But stopping a rape is one of the cardinal reasons for states to adopt CC laws, isn't it? Yes, you have to be very careful not to use your gun unless you really have to. But you have to be ready to use if the time comes, too, otherwise it's a just a liability.
    I agree with you except for one thing. Unlike LE, I have no obligation to warn anyone of anything.

    The warning ourrapist hears is also the sound of his pass being revoked.
    Bad strategy.

    If the guy is running away and unarmed and you pop him, it's a bad strategy.

    If the guy is still on the woman, popping him is still a bad strategy. Good luck.

    And you're going into law?

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    HankT wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    ...SNIP
    I agree with you except for one thing. Unlike LE, I have no obligation to warn anyone of anything.¬*¬*

    The warning our¬*rapist hears is also the sound of his pass being revoked.
    SNIP...
    If the guy is running away and unarmed and you pop him, it's a bad strategy.¬*

    If the guy is still on the woman, popping him is still a bad strategy.¬* Good luck.

    And you're going into law?

    While clearly the law in NJ and NY where you live is different because you cannot carry firearms to defend anything.

    In Virginia Wooley is correct, a citizen acting to defend him/herself or acting to rescue another is not required to give advanced warning. Only the Police are required to give such warning.

    Your supposition that he would shoot a running unarmed person is just you adding words that were never part of the original post... AGAIN.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    ...SNIP
    I agree with you except for one thing. Unlike LE, I have no obligation to warn anyone of anything.

    The warning ourrapist hears is also the sound of his pass being revoked.
    SNIP...
    If the guy is running away and unarmed and you pop him, it's a bad strategy.

    If the guy is still on the woman, popping him is still a bad strategy. Good luck.

    And you're going into law?

    While clearly the law in NJ and NY where you live is different because you cannot carry firearms to defend anything.

    In Virginia Wooley is correct, a citizen acting to defend him/herself or acting to rescue another is not required to give advanced warning. Only the Police are required to give such warning.

    Your supposition that he would shoot a running unarmed person is just you adding words that were never part of the original post... AGAIN.
    Please notice that little word "if," Hawk. You keep skipping crucial words....



    Hawkflyer wrote:
    While clearly the law in NJ and NY where you live is different because you cannot carry firearms to defend anything.


    I do? I live in both NJ and NY?

    I have never said that, Hawk. You're making a statement of fact. Cite your source.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Sorry Hank. Until you start answering questions you don't get to ask any that produce answers.

    Sorry, but you don't get to touch the monkey either
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  14. #14
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    HankT wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    While clearly the law in NJ and NY where you live is different because you cannot carry firearms to defend anything.
    I do? I live in both NJ and NY?

    I have never said that, Hawk. You're making a statement of fact. Cite your source.

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Sorry Hank. Until you start answering questions you don't get to ask any that produce answers.

    You don't know.....you simply do not know....heh.

    Hawk, you're just chewing cud...




  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well where are you from then? Word around the water cooler is that you are from that area, I believe it since you do not assert otherwise.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    In Virginia Wooley is correct, a citizen acting to defend him/herself or acting to rescue another is not required to give advanced warning. Only the Police are required to give such warning.
    Ok, there's an easier way to beat this blatant trolling, Hawk.

    Somebody cite legal code, or STHU.

    Everybody wins!

    Oh and Hank...

    Monkey toucher.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  17. #17
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    AbNo wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    In Virginia Wooley is correct, a citizen acting to defend him/herself or acting to rescue another is not required to give advanced warning. Only the Police are required to give such warning.
    Ok, there's an easier way to beat this blatant trolling, Hawk.

    Somebody cite legal code, or STHU.

    Everybody wins!

    Oh and Hank...

    Monkey toucher.
    As with open carry the "Code" for this is in fact the absence of any such requirement where citizens are concerned. The warning requirement for LEOs is part of the Administrative code and is incorporated into the training and shooting policy of Police departments state wide.

    The CHP required for the permit also make this point to there students.

    Just so we are clear, I am not saying it is a good idea to use this approach, just that it is legal.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    It is amazing how easily the consideration-expectation-requirement paradigm is embraced by these advocates of the Second Amendment that 'shall not be infringed.'

    Here, 'advance warning' of something and there, approved triple-retention never-release holsters and elsewhere, advanced eXtreme-tactical CQB training for grannies that would carry a gun.

    All to satisfy some concept of responsibility. Any nukes/submariners here recall Admiral Rickover on 'Responsibility,' "It is an unique concept...?"

    The conspiracy of ignorance only masquerades as common sense. Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Oh. Heh, heh. Don't forget the police will be looking for a rapist. What do you think will happen when they see you running? Or, running with a gun in hand?
    There's a Dirty Harry joke in there somewhere, something about collecting for the Red Cross...
    Harry Callahan: Well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard. That's my policy.
    The Mayor: Intent? How did you establish that?
    Harry Callahan: When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross!
    [walks out of the room[/i]]
    The Mayor: He's got a point.


    tomahawk here's your joke got to love what you can find on the internet in 30 seconds or less

  20. #20
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    HankT wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    While clearly the law in NJ and NY where you live is different because you cannot carry firearms to defend anything.
    I do? I live in both NJ and NY?

    I have never said that, Hawk. You're making a statement of fact. Cite your source.

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Sorry Hank. Until you start answering questions you don't get to ask any that produce answers.
    You don't know.....you simply do not know....heh.

    Hawk, you're just chewing cud...



    longwatch wrote:
    Well where are you from then?
    Is there some requirement to specify this? Maybe just make up a new one.Maybe 1000 posts? Something like: "All members with 1000 or more posts have specified their location!"




    longwatch wrote:
    Word around the water cooler is that you are from that area, I believe it since you do not assert otherwise.
    That kindof logic actually works for you, eh? :P

    What I can't figure out is why you and Hawk feel the need to pick TWO states that I live in. Izzat to increase your accuracy or something?






  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    If we are wrong just say so Hank. You were the one who said maybe you live in a state where you couldn't OC.

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    This happened just a couple minutes from my home. Of course, this is an area of town that myself and my family avoid.

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13728850/detail.html
    The last time I was in Manassas, I packed. It's a beautiful historic town, but it sure felt creepy. I was there with significant other to visit his sister.Her apartment was near where that highway sniper struck.

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    HankT wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Defense of others whose lives are being threatened is grounds for deadly force. Ifa man is obviously overpowering and sexually assaulting a woman, he gets one warning as the safety comes off and the sights come up. What happens next is his choice. The cell phone is for later. If he runs I would probably not give chase. I go to assist the victim and await the police.

    Of course, this is all theoretical to us now, you have to see through the fog and confusion and make sure you're not stepping into a domestic violence situation, picking the wrong side, etc. But I am assuming you see that a rape is taking place early in the encounter. Of course, you must also make sure you don't shoot the rape victim, as they are bound to be one on top of the other. Don't let tunnel vision keep you from seeing any buddies he has nearby.

    But stopping a rape is one of the cardinal reasons for states to adopt CC laws, isn't it? Yes, you have to be very careful not to use your gun unless you really have to. But you have to be ready to use if the time comes, too, otherwise it's a just a liability.
    I agree with you except for one thing. Unlike LE, I have no obligation to warn anyone of anything.

    The warning ourrapist hears is also the sound of his pass being revoked.
    Bad strategy.

    If the guy is running away and unarmed and you pop him, it's a bad strategy.

    If the guy is still on the woman, popping him is still a bad strategy. Good luck.

    And you're going into law?
    Here in Utah...First shoot and then see if you can ask the Bastard any Q's.

    We are justified by the LAW...............in Utah

    This whole Section is a Good one to remember.

    Utah Code Section 76-2-402




    76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined. (1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02022.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages


    (4) For purposes of this section, a forcible felony includes aggravated assault, mayhem, aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and aggravated kidnapping, rape, forcible sodomy, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, and aggravated sexual assault as defined in Title 76, Chapter 5, and arson, robbery, and burglary as defined in Title 76, Chapter 6. Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony. Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted.



  24. #24
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    vrwmiller wrote:
    This happened just a couple minutes from my home. Of course, this is an area of town that myself and my family avoid.

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13728850/detail.html

    Woman Beaten, Raped Behind Townhouse In Manassas

    POSTED: 10:10 pm EDT July 20, 2007
    UPDATED: 11:44 pm EDT July 20, 2007

    MANASSAS, Va. -- Police said an 18-year-old woman was raped in Manassas last Saturday morning. They said she was beaten and then sexually assaulted around 1:45 a.m. while waiting for her boyfriend on Buckner Road.

    The victim said a man approached her from behind, grabbed her neck and dragged her behind a row of townhouses.She said she was punched repeatedly and then raped.

    "You just need to know where your kids are and you need to keep them off the streets because you can't trust people nowadays," Buckner Road resident Karen Robinson said.

    The assault did not end until three men walking through the area witnessed the attack and her attacker ran, she said. Police were then called.

    The attack was the latest crime on the road, which has had a series of problems.

    Last year, neighbors said a man was killed on Buckner Road. Neighbors said police are a common fixture in the area.

    Candy Savannah ran the neighborhood watch program for years."I think it was an opportune moment for that element, he found the young lady and I am so sad, I really am," Savannah said.

    With no solid leads and a vague description of the suspect, police said they are counting on neighbors for help.

    Neighbors said it was a brutal crime that has left them all on edge.

    "I have a niece and she's only 17 and we worry about her going just from one little cubby hole on this side to the other side," Buckner Road resident Linda Jackson said.

    Police said they want to speak with the three men who saw the attack. They do not know their identities.

    Police are offering a $1,000 reward for any information that leads to an arrest.
    "You just need to know where your kids are and you need to keep them off the streets because you can't trust people nowadays," Buckner Road resident Karen Robinson said."

    ================================================== ==========

    Well..., she is 18 and is considered an adult.

    18 they are on their own.







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    packingdressagerider wrote:
    vrwmiller wrote:
    This happened just a couple minutes from my home. Of course, this is an area of town that myself and my family avoid.

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13728850/detail.html
    The last time I was in Manassas, I packed. It's a beautiful historic town, but it sure felt creepy. I was there with significant other to visit his sister.Her apartment was near where that highway sniper struck.
    please don't call him a sniper - the media used that term. there's waaay too much training involved for that guy to even think of being a sniper. shooting accuracy is only 1 small part of it all. (sorry 'bout the OT talk here - that whole thing just bugged me from the beginning).

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