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Thread: Recent VA Police Harassment

  1. #1
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    With the slew of recent Police misconduct towards citizens OCing (Alexandria x3, Norfolk, VA Beach x2, Manassas), I’ve been mulling over ways to level the playing field.

    What is the possibility of VCDL offering up a program where we keep Rich Gardiner, Mike, or some other approved lawyer on-deck for continued harassment by the police? As a VCDL member, I wouldn’t think twice about ponying up an additional 50 or 100 bucks a year as a simple “one phone call” option to act as our lawyer during these harassment stops. I know that I for one am not the best orator and can get stymied easily. I’m not sure I would know what to say and when to say it, unlike those with more experience in this arena.

    In a nutshell, those who opted in got a business card with Rich’s (or whoever’s) cell/office number on it that they give to the officer during the confrontation or as soon as it became obvious an officer wasn't enforcing any law, but was enforcing via editorializing. In all the recent accounts, the one recurring theme the officials say is “you can get your lawyer” or “you’re not a lawyer.” Fine. . .here they are! If needs be, VCDL membersmake the "one phone call" should the policewant to question or detain us and then Rich or whoever offers up the essentials.

    Did my client commit a crime? Are they suspected of committing a crime? No. . .you’re talking to them because some other citizen is uncomfortable?What is your name and badge number? SergeantMucci? great! Sergeant, I’m advising my client to walk away from you now and go about their business as you're not lawfully acting in any enforcement capacity, Stop harassing my client right now, or “something really bad” actually will happen to you!


    Obviously not everybody would want to opt-into a program like this, but I’m sure as an “Add on” membership option, we could drum up enough interest to make it worth the councilors time. It would also start getting the word out that the local 2nd Amendment activists are through playing the BS cop games and are willing to escalate the issue to the next level and have all “lawyered up.”

    Just an idea I’d like to throw out for comment.

    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

  2. #2
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    Heck if all you want is a business card with a cell phone number on it and someone on the other end to intimidate the cops in the manner you posted, just send your $50-$100 to bayboy1 through paypal and I'll send you my card Seriously though, I kind of see your point but am not sure the presence of this magical card would have significantly changed the outcome of any of the6 events you cited. I'd be willing to bet that LEOs hear lines similar to what you posted all the time but more often then not they chose to ignore them. Even the details associated with some of the events you cited show the LEOs aren't interesting in hearing whats right...i.e. the Manassas LEOs refused to look at hardcopy laws showing they were incorrect.

  3. #3
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    As good as this idea sounds, the cops probably won't care. If you gave him a card or a cell phone they wouldprobably just tell you to bring your lawyer to the courthouse or something. About the only thing ican imagine the cops listening to is if you had your lawyer present with you at the time of harrassment. I know i can't afford that!

  4. #4
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    My thought was more pulling out your cell and putting the lawyer on speakerphone.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bulldog1967's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    My thought was more pulling out your cell and putting the lawyer on speakerphone.
    As bayboy mentioned, you have no way of proving the other person on the line IS a lawyer.

  6. #6
    ccloud43
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    I agree with Bayboy and Bulldog on the fact the police are not going to care because you could have anybody on the other end of the line. But It would be a great idea just to have a lawyer on retainer for those unexpected police detainments. I have been thinking about doing that since all this has come up here in Norfolk. Just looking for a good pro 2A lawyer.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I would agree with some of the others as to the reaction of the LEO's during the incident. They are NOT going to listen to a lawyer, and it is unlikely that they will allow you to call one.

    It is an EXCELLENT idea for VCDL to have a lawyer on retainer, and available to members as a membership benefit. Even if they have to charge extra for the benefit. It will be hard to find one when you need one, unless you already have the number in your pocket. In fact they should have four of them. One in the Valley, one in NOVA, one in central Virginia, and one for the eastern shore area.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:

    It will be hard to find one when you need one, unless you already have the number in your pocket. In fact they should have four of them. One in the Valley, one in NOVA, one in central Virginia, and one for the eastern shore area.

    Regards
    While I don't know this man personally, he was recommended by a member of the Lafayette Gun Club.

    Richard Hill, Atty-at-Law
    1001-A Richmond Rd., Suite 2W
    Williamsburg, VA, 23187

    757-259-0017
    hillattorney@aol.com

    (NRA life member; LGC member)


    I keep the above info in my wallet, just in case.......:?


  9. #9
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    I'm in if for no other reason than for most of us the law is like plumbing:
    - I don't mess with it.
    - I expect it to work but don't really know what is going on.
    - I fear greatly for when it stops working.

    I don't have a plumber on retainer but maybe I should ...

    C.

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    How would it work if the attorney is in Fairfax and the action is in Roanoke? Do these guys tele-conference during the bail hearing?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    How would it work if the attorney is in Fairfax and the action is in Roanoke?* Do these guys tele-conference during the bail hearing?
    In part that is why there needs to be more than one.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  12. #12
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    PackininVB wrote:
    As good as this idea sounds, the cops probably won't care. If you gave him a card or a cell phone they wouldprobably just tell you to bring your lawyer to the courthouse or something. About the only thing ican imagine the cops listening to is if you had your lawyer present with you at the time of harrassment. I know i can't afford that!
    I agree. Th egestapo cares not for laws and freedoms.. only about what he claims the law is and what freedoms hes willing to allow you.

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