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Thread: having a voice recorder in case of bad LEO confrontation

  1. #1
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    I just ordered a voice recorder off ebay like one of these,

    http://electronics.search.ebay.com/v...chiZQQsaprcloZ

    Some of these are as small as a usb drive and can record 72 hours. and you can pick one up for around 20-30 dollars. I just don't want to be un-prepared in case I get stopped for OC'ing and get unlawfully detained or worse arrested.

    Anyone else do this? Here in ohio you can record a conversation as long as at least ONE of the party's knows its being done, as in me knowing.

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    I don't own one yet but will be purchasing one in the next week or so. Always a good idea to have a little insurance when it comes to LEO confrontations

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    Saint wrote:
    I don't own one yet but will be purchasing one in the next week or so. Always a good idea to have a little insurance when it comes to LEO confrontations
    I think it will be more than a little insurance. Consider.If you are legal, and you are being detained for the gun, the cop is either biased, ignorant of law, or both (absent a false 911 call or you matching the description of the bank robber.) There is a good chance he will lie or twist the truth if you make a formal complaint. He is protecting his personnel file from reprimands or termination. Hisdesire to avoid these consequenceswill be high.

    Recording the incident is just about the only way to make a formal complaint stick against a lying or truth-twistingcop,unless you have witnesses or other undeniable evidence.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I do carry an Iriver mp3 player with record capabilities and a built in mic, works resonably well.

    PS. http://tinyurl.com/create.php is our friend.

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    I honestly wouldn't bother, pending on your state laws, the recording may be inadmissable.

    I've never been ina "bad" stop before, not to mention that I have grown up around LEOS and work with LEOs on a nearly daily basis so my "perspective" may be tainted.

    If you feel you may need one, check your state laws regarding the legality of any recordings before buying one.

    On a side note, the police in the UK are wearing helmet cams now...

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Its perfectly legal in Virginia and I very much regret not having one on a few occassions. Particularly one January night in Manassas.

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    JD wrote:
    On a side note, the police in the UK are wearing helmet cams now...
    What, are they American (British?) Gladiators now?

    http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7...rscastpdz6.jpg
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    illegal in a few states. just recently a guy was arrested and charged in NH for doing this. Police do not want evidence they have no control over.

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    I have one, and have it with me every time I OC now. I even went so far as to duct tape it to my chest when we went to the Latino festival in Town Point park last saturday. Got to get me a little microphone for it.

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    Looks like Oregon does not allow you to record your conversation without all parties knowing.

    165.540 Obtaining contents of communications. (1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 or 133.726 or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/165.html
    (a) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a telecommunication or a radio communication to which the person is not a participant, by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, unless consent is given by at least one participant.
    If it is a telephone call you can record with your permission (one participant).

    (c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.
    But as far as I can tell you cannot record a conversation on the street without the consent of everyone. Which means the officer will say 'turn it off' and if you don't it's a Class A misdemeanor.

    It would be nice if section (a) also applied to conversations in which you were a participant, not just telecommunication or radio communications.

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    sedjester wrote:
    But as far as I can tell you cannot record a conversation on the street without the consent of everyone. Which means the officer will say 'turn it off' and if you don't it's a Class A misdemeanor.
    What's a misdemeanor? Violating the recording law, or not turning it off when the officer tells you?

    As far as I'm concerned, if they can record everything from squad car cameras and light pole cameras, why can't I record everything, so long as I tell them I am doing it?

    Heck, maybe you should put a sign on the back of your car: "All traffic stop audio will be recorded by OnStar for your safety".

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    T,

    He's in Oregon.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    T,

    He's in Oregon.
    Yeah, I know, that's why I'm asking which is the misdemeanor. The rest of my rant is..well...just a rant...

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    I suppose by not turning it off when the officer says he doesn't want to be recorded would be violating the recording law.

    I agree with you 100% Tomahawk, if they can record everything without telling us they are doing it we should be allowed to. Especially considering we are in the recording ourselves.

    I wonder if it would be good to record it anyways and not say anything about it. That way there is an accurate accounting of the conversations and tones. And if for some reason it was found that I had it, a search for example, I could say that I forgot I had it....


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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I have one, and have it with me every time I OC now. I even went so far as to duct tape it to my chest when we went to the Latino festival in Town Point park last saturday. Got to get me a little microphone for it.
    That's dedication...I'd find a way that would be less likely to tear out chest hair, but that's just me.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, seriously...

    I don't know about some of you on here, but I put up a good fight Virginia black bears with how furry I my chest is.

    I'll pass on the duct tape. :shock:
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    sedjester wrote:
    Looks like Oregon does not allow you to record your conversation without all parties knowing.

    165.540 Obtaining contents of communications. (1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 or 133.726 or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/165.html
    (a) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a telecommunication or a radio communication to which the person is not a participant, by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, unless consent is given by at least one participant.
    If it is a telephone call you can record with your permission (one participant).

    (c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.
    But as far as I can tell you cannot record a conversation on the street without the consent of everyone. Which means the officer will say 'turn it off' and if you don't it's a Class A misdemeanor.

    It would be nice if section (a) also applied to conversations in which you were a participant, not just telecommunication or radio communications.

    Read subsection (C) again and think like a lawer.

    (c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.
    Reads to me like you can record whatever conversation you want, so long as you NOTIFY all participants that the recording is occuring.....whether they agree to it or not.

    If they don't want their part of the conversation to be recorded, they have only one choice: ****.


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    Very good point Phssthpok! I read it again and indeed that is what it means. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    sedjester wrote:
    But as far as I can tell you cannot record a conversation on the street without the consent of everyone. Which means the officer will say 'turn it off' and if you don't it's a Class A misdemeanor.
    As far as I'm concerned, if they can record everything from squad car cameras and light pole cameras, why can't I record everything, so long as I tell them I am doing it?

    I'd agree wholeheartedly with this logic.

    There may even be a market opportunity for a product that would record such events in civilian autos.

    As a general proposition, LE is doing a good thing in recording whatever they record. So, it would and should be with citizens. Same principles.

    And as far as advising someone, I'm not sure that is necessary. A LEO/citizen encounter is a public, not a private one. Do LEO's inform citizens that their dash cam or audio recording is running???? I doubt it.


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    Hey guys....here are a few devices I thought might be of interest.....I deal with these people regularly and have no issues ordering from them........

    http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?Inv...&cpc=RECOM

    http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...GB&cat=FLM

    http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...RD&cat=FLM



  21. #21
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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I have one, and have it with me every time I OC now. I even went so far as to duct tape it to my chest when we went to the Latino festival in Town Point park last saturday. Got to get me a little microphone for it.
    Hey Rev, how'd the race go? I picked up a small microphone for mine - Sony Model ECM-T6 (Tie-Tac Lavaliere Microphone) under $15.

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    I just received my new voice recorder its a VN-4100PC from Olympus. It was about $60 but it works wonderfully. I wanted something I could start recording when I left the house in the morning and keep running all day. I have found that by the time you start recording a conversation you have usually missed something important. I bought some rechargeable batteries and this recorder will run about 18 hours. It has a shutoff so it doesn’t record dead air, and can pick up most people clearly from inside my pants pocket. Its about 4"x1.5"x0.5" (smaller than my cell phone). The bad however is when it is in my pocket it will often pick up the sound of my jeans rubbing against the mic.



    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1291

  23. #23
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    Try putting a small mesh screen over the mic?

    Or some other guard, perhaps.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    xmirage2kx wrote:
    The bad however is when it is in my pocket it will often pick up the sound of my jeans rubbing against the mic.
    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1291
    You read that, LEO229? If you don't want your conversation recorded while detaining someone, just have him walk a straight line a la sobriety test during questioning.

    That, or shake him or rough him up during questioning.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
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    having a voice recorder in case of bad LEO confrontation
    Just curious. Is there such a thing as a good LEO confrontation?

    Confrontation would seem to imply something negative.

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