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Thread: dhoney75's comment from Southcenter thread

  1. #1
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    dhoney75 wrote:
    I am from the Tacoma area and it was not that long ago that our community was disrupted by some crazy, unstable person like yourself that thought it was “ok” to bring weapons into the mall. People’s lives were destroyed that day. What makes you think that anyone would see you any differently then the person that committed that heinous violation of law? My children are exposed to “wanna-be’s” like you that were not able to pass a psych eval and become law enforcement.

    As I am reading this “blog” or “thread” I am disgusted by your behavior and your attempt to justify your greediness. It is sad that those of us who support the right to bear arms are compared to unstable persons like yourself.

    LEO’s are responsible to follow through with all complaints by businesses and citizens who feel threatened. Frankly if I was confronted by some strange and egotistical person like you I would have called the police as well, I trust that they would do whatever was necessary to ensure the safety of myself and my family.

    Don’t take your “wish-I could-be-a-cop” frustrations out on the public and DO NOT try to conceal your mental issues with MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Any stable human knows that it is not reasonable to open-carry in the public when most Americans are not educated in the rules and respect of gun ownership. People who respect the right to bear arms do not “prance” around in public trying to intimidate others. People who respect the right to bear arms respect the rights of individuals who are not comfortable with guns.

    I own several weapons myself and as a woman, I was raised and trained to use them both skillfully and respectfully… I only see you as a weak pitiful person who needs to band together with others and sip some “red-kool-aid.”

    Good luck finding some sleaze-bag lawyer to take your case.Get a real job andquit trying to earn aquick buck with your lawsuit.You should be ashamed of yourself...as a multi-generational NRA member, I am ashamed of you.


    I have created a new thread for you, so that you can have an open and honest discussion with the other members of this thread. Please refrain from posting anything in the "Unlawfully Detained at Southcenter" thread, since it is there to suggest and plan legal actions, not to discuss personal opinions of open carry.

    For the purpose of letting you have your voice heard, I have started this thread, and would love to continue any rational discussion with you here. I invite anyone on the board to join in on this discussion.





    That being said, I completely disagree with you. The tacoma mall shooting was very upsetting for a lot of us, but it is not a reason to not open carry at malls. Malls are no safer than any other public place, and it is important to remember that the first person to try to stop the shooter at the Tacoma mall was a civilian with a CCW, not a law enforcement officer. I do not carry a gun to intimidate other people, or to play police officer. I carry it to present a positive image of gun owners, by being friendly and courteous to everyone I meet, destroying myths of all gun owners being armed maniacs.

    I also open carry because it protects my fiancee and myself from being targets. Some might argue that a "bad guy" would see me as the first target to take out, but from my experience, the presence of a handgun has been nothing but a deterant to any would-be attacker.

    As for carrying a gun because I'm a wanna-be cop, that is entirely not true. I do not act like a cop or try to be mistaken for one, as some people do (like the people that carry "concealed weapon permit" badges around their necks, no offense guys, but trying to look like a cop is just not cool). If asked if I am law enforcement, I always respond with a no, and try to use the opportunity to educate someone that may be unaware of open carry rights.

    I open carry a lot, and I have never acted in an intimidating manner or tried to use that as some kind of authority. I don't even dress like a cop. I dress nicely, but I don't beleive I am easily mistaken for a police officer. I am an average guy with good intentions and a polite demeanor. I just happen to have a gun on my belt.

    I understand if this upsets you, but please know that I do not carry to intimidate ot upsetpeople, and if anyone feels that way they have my deepest sympathy. Aside from the fact that it is far more comfortable, I mostly open carry to present a possitive image of gun owners to the public. I beleive in the spirit of the second amendment, and I want to open the eyes of others to that freedom.



    I should also mention that I have a steady full time job and I am not entering into a lawsuit to get rich. I am entering into a lawsuit to try to prevent that and other departments from violating our rights in the future. This is not about money. It's about our constitutional rights, and the fight against gastapo tactics.




    I would like to ask everyone to refrain from jumping to the conclusion that this person is an anti. She may be a very avid supporter of the second amendment, but not feel that such a public display was decent. She may be a supporter of open carry, but not in the mall. Let's give her a chance to explain her side of things before we label her as an anti.


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    Just ignore the "woman" -- probably a police officer on the Tukwila police force.

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    Just ignore the "woman" -- probably a police officer on the Tukwila police force.

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    Her other post on the Southcenter thread:

    dhoney75 wrote:
    Blame spell check, it is so sad when persons who"claim" to be responsible can only dignify their ignorance with grammatical issues...

    Only crazed, extremist, fanatical persons would take issue with my family's NRA membership. Get a life...I grew up at the gun club, you all didn't know what they were until you turned 21...unless they squirted water...LOL.
    The Southcenter thread, for context:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/3696.html



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    Like my granddad said, "Only people who are up to no good conceal." Now while I think that doesn't tone exactly true to days age it still holds a bit of truth. I am from the south and it is not uncommon to see people walking around with guns strapped to their sides. I am not ashamed of my firearm and thus have no intention of covering it up unless I am at work or if I know the situation would seem somewhat inapprorate. You wouldn't see me OC'in in Chuckie Cheese. I know a lot of people would, but that's just me. A lot of people carry firearms all the time, so what's the difference from concealed carry and open carry? You still have a firearm strapped to you. You point just seems to not make any sense.

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    I just realized she was trolling. And my thought out reply was lost to the 'timed out' demon, so oh well.

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    Primer discovered that dhoney's IP is definitely from Tacoma.

    Here's the Mapquest to the geo-coordinates:
    EDITED TO PREVENT THE FEAR OF THE IGNORANT



    Ain't the internet grand?

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    BobCav wrote:
    Primer discovered that dhoney's IP is definitely from Tacoma.

    Here's the Mapquest to the geo-coordinates:
    EDITED TO PREVENT THE FEAR OF THE IGNORANT
    Ain't the internet grand?
    Gotta love the double-edged sword

  9. #9
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    And once again that poster proved that our greatest domestic enemy is Constitutional ignorance that sometimes hides behind the law, a badge or an office. What a sad and pathetic picture of America they must live with. I actually feel so very sorry for them, for as long as they continue to believe that the Constitution guarantees them the illusion of safety, they are playing directly into the hands of those who would destroy the fabric of our Constitution and they willl never be free.

    dhoney75,

    ...We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!
    • Samuel Adams Speech, State House of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia (1 August 1776)


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    BobCav wrote:
    And once again that poster proved that our greatest domestic enemy is Constitutional ignorance that sometimes hides behind the law, a badge or an office. What a sad and pathetic picture of America they must live with. I actually feel so very sorry for them, for as long as they continue to believe that the Constitution guarantees them the illusion of safety, they are playing directly into the hands of those who would destroy the fabric of our Constitution and they willl never be free.
    Good post.

    They also don't seem to realize that police are simply citizens that have been hired to perform a job of law enforcement by a locaility/county/state. They carry guns for protection in the line of duty of that job. They are not some mystical beings. Just citizens. The notion that people are cop wannabe's for carrying arms is absurd. If we wanted to be a cops we'd go apply. Mainsail put it perfectly with the spare tire comment. I just realized I'm a serious wannabe fireman because I have at least 10 fire extinguishers in my house.


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    Before everyone gets too cranked about dhoney75's remarks, maybe you ought to take a deep breath and learn something.

    What's to learn? Well, for openers, consider this a hint of what the OC community may face in the Legislature. I had an interesting chat with a very pro-gun attorney who suggested that just because something may be currently legal and arguably protected by the State Constitution, that doesn't mean lawmakers like Adam Cline are going to sit back and do nothing if OC becomes an issue. They may push through a state law prohibiting OC -- with the support of even some gun owners who find the practice offensive -- and let the courts decide.

    The law of physics is at work here; every action causes an equal and opposite reaction. Stop ranting about dhoney75's remarks; use them as a learning tool.

    Just how will you all react when (not if) some lawmaker introduces legislation to take a whack out of state pre-emption, so as to allow cities and even counties, to adopt ordinances banning or severely limiting not only OC but CCW.

    We live in a real world where not everyone approves of what you are doing. Some meatheads may think this is "me" talking but it's not. I'm merely telling it like it is, and while the OC community may collectively argue that people who don't like OC can "stuff it," those people are pretty adept at approaching sympathetic lawmakers and telling you to "stuff it" right back. You can kill the messenger here, or

    Instead of whining about dhoney75's comments, start right now developing serious, reasonable, sensible and proper responses; reactions that will work in Olympia to protect your rights and more importantly, protect the pre-emption statute that we fought so hard for more than 20 years ago.



    Oh, and forget about arguing that "This is a violation of my Second Amendment rights."

    The Second Amendment, as I had to tell a guy yesterday, has NOTHING to do with this controversy. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    This is purely a state constitutional issue and a matter of state statute and state court precedent, nothing more. Believing it is something more doesn't make it so, the same as believing you will prevail because you have "right" on your side. The right side doesn't always win. Some would say living proof of that is sitting in the Governor's office right now.

    It is quite possible dhoney75 has done you a favor. Be smart enough to understand that andplan accordingly.

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    So we should NOT discuss what is wrong with her comments?
    This is somehow NOT useful?

    I disagree.

    I do agree that you have a valid point about using the comments in the way you mention.

    BUT, insulting remarks towards the other forum members for discussing the obvious flaws in her opinion is plain old rude and likely to just get your post ignored.
    You could have made your point without talking down to the group.





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    expvideo wrote:
    The tacoma mall shooting was very upsetting for a lot of us, but it is not a reason to not open carry at malls. Malls are no safer than any other public place, and it is important to remember that the first person to try to stop the shooter at the Tacoma mall was a civilian with a CCW, not a law enforcement officer.
    While your entire post was very well put, I wanted to quote this portion, in particular, because I feel it has a lot of weight. Police officers can only respond after an event has taken place, and after they are able to get to the location. In contrast, a responsible citizen carrying a weapon can defend him or herself, and those around him/her, immediately. How many times must we see reports of legally armed citizens stopping crazed lunatics before people figure out that guns are not the problem?

    They say that it takes a village to raise a child. Similarly, it takes concerned citizens, willing to stand up for themselves and their neighbors, to prevent crime. When someone sees a holstered gun on a fellow citizens hip they should not be alarmed, they should be relieved! Not only is that person doing what they can to prevent crime, but they are showing their intentions, and that they have nothing to hide.

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    I don’t see anything insulting in Dave’s post. I think the point he is trying to make is that her (if she is really a she) post is a valuable learning tool. We’re all pretty much of the same opinion as to OC; so it is educational to read an opinion that may not match our own. Whether we like it or not, her opinion, though at the extreme end of the spectrum from ours, is the position held by some.

    I also don’t see where Dave says we shouldn’t discuss her post, but to see it for what it is. It’s not so much that we shouldn’t discuss it, it’s just that we shouldn’t get all wild-eyed and foamy mouthed while pounding on the US constitution. What good is it to us if the only thing we read here are opinions that match our own? This woman has an opinion, and although it’s so full of holes that it cannot be taken too seriously, it is the opinion of some.

    My view is that her attitude is not how the majority of the public sees OC; I think they’re pretty much undecided. I’ve encountered far more citizens who think it’s great than those who fear it.


    I would relish the idea of having an intelligent debate with her on the subject, but I don’t see that ever happening. That’s what I see in Dave’s post; all of us ganging up and rending our garments over this isn’t going to create an environment for intelligent adult debate, without which nothing can be learned by either side. Nonetheless, she was a drive-by poster and doesn’t appear to have returned to follow up on her original thoughts anyway.

    As to legislation, the idealist in me thinks OC will remain legal simply because it’s a non-issue. Has there ever been a reported crime committed by someone OCing? Unfortunately, idealism is like common sense, and they have little relevance to legislators.




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    Mainsail wrote:
    I don’t see anything insulting in Dave’s post.
    I do:
    Before everyone gets too cranked about dhoney75's remarks, maybe you ought to take a deep breath and learn something.
    Mainsail wrote:
    I think the point he is trying to make is that her (if she is really a she) post is a valuable learning tool. We’re all pretty much of the same opinion as to OC; so it is educational to read an opinion that may not match our own. Whether we like it or not, her opinion, though at the extreme end of the spectrum from ours, is the position held by some.
    As I said in my post. "I Agree" And I'll add %100
    However, I disagree with the daddy Workman tone of voice. I'm not thin skinned, just observant. He could have gotten his point accros by simply stating that we could use this as a learning experience. I don't think that the "don't do this" introduction to his point will have the desired effect he was looking for.

    Mainsail wrote:
    I also don’t see where Dave says we shouldn’t discuss her post,

    DW:
    Instead of whining about dhoney75's comments,

    To sum it up. The DW message is wonderful! The delivery sucks. That's all.
    JHMO

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    Mainsail wrote:
    I don’t see anything insulting in Dave’s post. I think the point he is trying to make is that her (if she is really a she) post is a valuable learning tool. We’re all pretty much of the same opinion as to OC; so it is educational to read an opinion that may not match our own. Whether we like it or not, her opinion, though at the extreme end of the spectrum from ours, is the position held by some.

    I also don’t see where Dave says we shouldn’t discuss her post, but to see it for what it is. It’s not so much that we shouldn’t discuss it, it’s just that we shouldn’t get all wild-eyed and foamy mouthed while pounding on the US constitution. What good is it to us if the only thing we read here are opinions that match our own? This woman has an opinion, and although it’s so full of holes that it cannot be taken too seriously, it is the opinion of some.

    My view is that her attitude is not how the majority of the public sees OC; I think they’re pretty much undecided. I’ve encountered far more citizens who think it’s great than those who fear it.


    I would relish the idea of having an intelligent debate with her on the subject, but I don’t see that ever happening. That’s what I see in Dave’s post; all of us ganging up and rending our garments over this isn’t going to create an environment for intelligent adult debate, without which nothing can be learned by either side. Nonetheless, she was a drive-by poster and doesn’t appear to have returned to follow up on her original thoughts anyway.

    As to legislation, the idealist in me thinks OC will remain legal simply because it’s a non-issue. Has there ever been a reported crime committed by someone OCing? Unfortunately, idealism is like common sense, and they have little relevance to legislators.


    Very well put Dave and Mainsail. I do agree with OC and have done it on a few occasions. Most of the time I CC. I support all of you in your beliefs to OC but I do understand that there may be ramifications to it. I keep a close eye on my state reps and communicate with them often on varying subjects. This is one way we can hold onto what we have. The more they know us the better our arguments may have a positive influence on them to make the choices at the state level that we support.

    Allin all keep it up and keep yourhead level when dealing with people that you encounter, especiallythe LEO. Nothing is better than everyone seeing that OC can be peaceable. When we have encounters likeexpvideo had it can lead to the people witnessing theinteraction with LEO as a negative in thier outlook on OC. This is, among other reasons, why it is very important that we try to educate and not bash or threaten, especially here, people that are either against it or undecided. OnceLEO is educated, as Lonnie and Dave are trying to do, and people see our encounters with them asnothing more than a personwho happens to havea gun talking to a LEO then it will start to become more acceptable. Afterall if the Police do not have an issue with it why should they. The psychological impact of this on the other citizens may not be known to them but they will soon see it for what it is. A normal person who just happens to have a pistol on his hip.

    BTW expvideo, I hope it all goes well for you and you come out of this feeling satisfied that you can OC in Tukwila without fear of Rogue LEO.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  17. #17
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    Just in case she wished to discuss her post:

    I am from the Tacoma area and it was not that long ago that our community was disrupted by some crazy, unstable person like yourself…

    I don’t understand your assumption that I am unstable merely because I carry a firearm. Despite your assertion, I am completely unlike the assailant in the Tacoma Mall shooting. I have no desire to ever hurt anyone. I carry a firearm for the same reason I carry a spare tire, in the hopes that I’ll never need either. I carry openly because it is more practical in warm weather.

    My children are exposed to “wanna-be’s” like you that were not able to pass a psych eval and become law enforcement.

    I don’t want to be a police officer, and I could pass all of their tests easily, actually better than most of the officers currently on the police force. Your children are exposed to perhaps dozens of child molesters on a daily basis, more so in the mall. (If you don’t have the link for the Pierce County website that allows you to search for sex offenders in your area, please let me know and I’ll forward it to you, it’s important!) Imagine if one person was open carrying in the ally behind Zina Linnik’s house, do you think she would have been kidnapped, raped, and eventually murdered? In all likelihood, the incident would never have happened and even the person openly carrying his firearm would be ignorant to what had just NOT happened. You see, an openly carried firearm has a deterrent effect, especially with the cowardly human scum who commit those types of heinous crimes.
    As I am reading this “blog” or “thread” I am disgusted by your behavior and your attempt to justify your greediness.

    If you had read it, you’d see he doesn’t desire to sue for personal gain, but to force the police department to recognize the rights of Washington citizens. You properly exercised your right of free speech here. How would you react if the police wrote you a ticket for having done so?

    It is sad that those of us who support the right to bear arms are compared to unstable persons like yourself.

    You cannot support the right to bear arms while at the same time criticizing those that do. If you support the right to carry only concealed arms, then you should be aware that practically every gun related crime in Tacoma was committed by someone who at first concealed their firearm.

    LEO’s are responsible to follow through with all complaints by businesses and citizens who feel threatened.

    I agree with this statement. Where we’ll part company, however, is at the point where you assume that the mere observation of an openly carried firearm is in any way a threat. My openly carried firearm poses not one iota more threat or danger to the public than a police officer’s.

    Any stable human knows that it is not reasonable to open-carry in the public when most Americans are not educated in the rules and respect of gun ownership.

    You keep using the word ‘stable’ in the middle of statements that appear to have been made by someone in an unstable state of mind. In this statement you are also placing yourself in a maternal position over the population that you feel are not as educated as you. Open carry does not violate any rules of gun ownership.

    People who respect the right to bear arms do not “prance” around in public trying to intimidate others.

    Again, misinformed assumption on your part is being presented as fact. I do not carry a firearm to intimidate anyone. I also do not prance, saunter, or skip.

    People who respect the right to bear arms respect the rights of individuals who are not comfortable with guns.

    Would you ban African Americans if some people are not comfortable with them? Would you outlaw peanuts because some people are allergic to them? Again, the mere presence of a firearm on my belt does not change who I am, it does not make me unstable or violent.

    I own several weapons myself and as a woman, I was raised and trained to use them both skillfully and respectfully…

    We have some common ground then.

    I only see you as a weak pitiful person who needs to band together with others and sip some “red-kool-aid.


    Wishing for the deaths of people with interests, desires, or beliefs that differ from your own is not only a perfect example of an unstable personality, but a dangerous one at that. I won’t remind you of all the death, torture, rape, and mutilations that are occurring and have occurred down through history as a result of that type of prejudice.


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    Mainsail - The eloquence and thoughtfulness of your posts should serve as a lesson to us all. Thanks for maintaining your composure and fighting the good fight.

    Ditto for Sandy, Lonnie, and several others here.

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    Ad hominem insults are not the same thing as constructive criticism. Either this is just a troll, or this toad thinks that her amateur headshrinking is a panacea for the real and imagined problems of OCers and society at large. Her having kids, or being an NRA member, or any other such pretentions to superior merit and dignity do not even amount to an argument from authority - as specious as they are - so this is simply not to be taken seriously.

    -ljp

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    Legba wrote:
    Ad hominem insults are not the same thing as constructive criticism. Either this is just a troll, or this toad thinks that her amateur headshrinking is a panacea for the real and imagined problems of OCers and society at large. Her having kids, or being an NRA member, or any other such pretentions to superior merit and dignity do not even amount to an argument from authority - as specious as they are - so this is simply not to be taken seriously.

    -ljp
    +1. Best reply yet.

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    Is it just me, or is everybody having trouble with the width of this page?



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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Is it just me, or is everybody having trouble with the width of this page?

    No, that was the last page This page (pg.2) is fine.

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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Is it just me, or is everybody having trouble with the width of this page?
    No worries using Opera.
    -Unrequited

  24. #24
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    "Opera?" What's opera? Or is this some sort of inside joke?

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    Opera is a web browser (like IE or Firefox) Opera is a lot smaller and leaner than the mainstream browsers.

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