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Vehicle Laws

N

nickerj1

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Jun 18, 2007
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251
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, , USA
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Since I'm lazy and spend all day interpreting USC I'll ask this...

I was driving with my brother in-law with my gun in my OWB holster. He's familiar with OC versus CC and mentioned that he couldn't really see my gun when I was sitting in the driver's seat. I wear it about 4 o'clock, and between my body and the middle column you can't really see my gun at all.

He then asked if that's then considered CC and the holder when then have to have a permit, so to remain OC you'd have to unholster the gun and put it on, say, the dash.

Would it still be considered OC because I'd be required to make an overt action to draw it? How do most people handle driving when they OC?
 
M

muzz3256

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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Now I was once told by a police officer, that the passenger is considered the "public" and if he can see it in plain sight from where he is sitting, the it's in plain sight. Now I don't know how much I would trust this, but it's what I was once told. I would wait to see someone more versed (such as a police officer) comment on this.

-Muzz
 
G

glock9emem

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Mar 24, 2007
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Sterling, Virginia, USA
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I called the VCDL a few months back about the issue and in the opinion of the gentleman answering the phones it was necessary to put your firearm on the middle console (if possible) or on the dash. I personally bought a no slip-pad for cellphones(couple dollars at walmart) and put my S&W on the dash on top of it. I have had no problems with it sliding around since.
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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Morgan, Utah, USA
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glock9emem wrote:
I called the VCDL a few months back about the issue and in the opinion of the gentleman answering the phones it was necessary to put your firearm on the middle console (if possible) or on the dash. I personally bought a no slip-pad for cellphones(couple dollars at walmart) and put my S&W on the dash on top of it. I have had no problems with it sliding around since.
Click to expand...

I did the same ( no slip-pad I mean ), anda fewpeople driving by looked but it seemed nobody really cared.

1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.

I was for sure expecting LEO coming up behind checking my SN. But what a disappointment:lol:
 
paramedic70002

paramedic70002

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Jun 14, 2006
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Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
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As I understand the issue, OC v CC is decided based on case law, a particularly crafty animal that routinely emits a slick substance when you try to grab it.

As such, I believe case law says that the weapon must be visible from 3 sides, but also allows that the visibility is assumed from a non-seated position.

Because...in a perfect hip holster-only world, 85% of all humans are right handed, therefore 85% of CCWers will most likely have their weapon in a position not visible to the officer at the driver's window.

By the way, I've always been approached at the driver's window, but I see on the COP shows a lot of officers approaching on the passenger side. Is this the new, hip way to do a traffic stops?

Most LEOs have the common sense to not arrest you for having the weapon clearly visible while seated in your car, however, some do not.
 
M

muzz3256

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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Form what I understand, working in 911, some do the traffic stops on the passenger side to avoid getting hit by cars on the road, seen more than 1 video of an officer getting clipped by a car.

-Muzz
 
VAopencarry

VAopencarry

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Berryville-ish, VA
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Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Virginia Code considers it concealed if it is
hidden from common observation
Click to expand...

Is it hidden from common observation? My guess is yes. If Officer Friendly approaches your drivers window he can't see your weapon. He could stick his head in your window and likely not see it. I would consider this 'hidden from common observation'. It doesn't matter where you put it, if it is observable.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308
 
P

ParaWarthog

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, ,
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UTOC-45-44 wrote:
1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.
Click to expand...
LOL. It's always great to add a little description in your posts.

Do you drive with the gun on the "non slip" pad? 30 ounces (approx. loaded) isn't that heavy, until it's flying through the car at 100 mph and the 30 ounces is in the form of steel.
 
L

LEO 229

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USA
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VAopencarry wrote:
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Virginia Code considers it concealed if it is
hidden from common observation
Click to expand...

Is it hidden from common observation? My guess is yes. If Officer Friendly approaches your drivers window he can't see your weapon. He could stick his head in your window and likely not see it. I would consider this 'hidden from common observation'. It doesn't matter where you put it, if it is observable.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308
Click to expand...
+1

You have to actually make some overt act to actually hide it from view.

If the LEO can approach from one side of the other and see it... IMO... your OK.
 
G

glock9emem

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Mar 24, 2007
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Sterling, Virginia, USA
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The no-slip pads are amazing. I have tested them out on a side road by my house braking very hard and locking up the tires(two o' clock in the morning no one around...no one in danger...with gun UNLOADED) and it didn't budge. Try them out it's worth the few dollar investment.
 
D

dng

State Researcher
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
1,290
Location
, , USA
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glock9emem wrote:
The no-slip pads are amazing. I have tested them out on a side road by my house braking very hard and locking up the tires(two o' clock in the morning no one around...no one in danger...with gun UNLOADED) and it didn't budge. Try them out it's worth the few dollar investment.
Click to expand...
I have to wonder about the effect of the sun beating down on the gun as it sits on the dash. I have no studies to prove it would damage it in any way, just wondering.
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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Feb 22, 2007
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Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
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ParaWarthog wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.
Click to expand...
LOL. It's always great to add a little description in your posts.

Do you drive with the gun on the "non slip" pad? 30 ounces (approx. loaded) isn't that heavy, until it's flying through the car at 100 mph and the 30 ounces is in the form of steel.
Click to expand...

You are right. I'm trying to get a holster to drill stuck to the Dash, I think I will get a Serpa. It's a Good and Safe retention to not go anywhere.

But for now the Anti-slip is Great.
 
L

LEO 229

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dngreer wrote:
glock9emem wrote:
The no-slip pads are amazing. I have tested them out on a side road by my house braking very hard and locking up the tires(two o' clock in the morning no one around...no one in danger...with gun UNLOADED) and it didn't budge. Try them out it's worth the few dollar investment.
Click to expand...
I have to wonder about the effect of the sun beating down on the gun as it sits on the dash. I have no studies to prove it would damage it in any way, just wondering.
Click to expand...

That will just heat up the metal and make it too hot to handle the slide.

No other damage should occur.
 
D

dng

State Researcher
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
1,290
Location
, , USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
dngreer wrote:
glock9emem wrote:
The no-slip pads are amazing. I have tested them out on a side road by my house braking very hard and locking up the tires(two o' clock in the morning no one around...no one in danger...with gun UNLOADED) and it didn't budge. Try them out it's worth the few dollar investment.
Click to expand...
I have to wonder about the effect of the sun beating down on the gun as it sits on the dash. I have no studies to prove it would damage it in any way, just wondering.
Click to expand...

That will just heat up the metal and make it too hot to handle the slide.

No other damage should occur.
Click to expand...
Not even on "polymer"or whatever that plastic type material is?
 
L

LEO 229

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Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
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USA
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dngreer wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
dngreer wrote:
glock9emem wrote:
The no-slip pads are amazing. I have tested them out on a side road by my house braking very hard and locking up the tires(two o' clock in the morning no one around...no one in danger...with gun UNLOADED) and it didn't budge. Try them out it's worth the few dollar investment.
Click to expand...
I have to wonder about the effect of the sun beating down on the gun as it sits on the dash. I have no studies to prove it would damage it in any way, just wondering.
Click to expand...

That will just heat up the metal and make it too hot to handle the slide.

No other damage should occur.
Click to expand...
Not even on "polymer"or whatever that plastic type material is?
Click to expand...
I suspect it would take far greater heat to hit the melting point for that material. I know electronics that get real hot like power converters and that plastic holds its shape well.
 
G

gregma

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
618
Location
Redmond, Washington, USA
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
ParaWarthog wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.
Click to expand...
LOL. It's always great to add a little description in your posts.

Do you drive with the gun on the "non slip" pad? 30 ounces (approx. loaded) isn't that heavy, until it's flying through the car at 100 mph and the 30 ounces is in the form of steel.
Click to expand...

You are right. I'm trying to get a holster to drill stuck to the Dash, I think I will get a Serpa. It's a Good and Safe retention to not go anywhere.

But for now the Anti-slip is Great.
Click to expand...
Wow, imagine this. You pull someone over for speeding. You approach from the drivers side. You see the occupant has his hands on the steering wheel and window open. You get closer to notice a handgun 5 inches away from his right hand on the dashboard. Oh MY would that cause my heart to skip a couple of beats. :D


Personally I'd rather have it holstered on your hip OWB where you would have to do at least a couple of contortions to get at it. And also for *me* if you go out of the car and I could reasonably see it, then I would consider it being openly carried.
 
L

LEO 229

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Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
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gregma wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
ParaWarthog wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.
Click to expand...
LOL. It's always great to add a little description in your posts.

Do you drive with the gun on the "non slip" pad? 30 ounces (approx. loaded) isn't that heavy, until it's flying through the car at 100 mph and the 30 ounces is in the form of steel.
Click to expand...

You are right. I'm trying to get a holster to drill stuck to the Dash, I think I will get a Serpa. It's a Good and Safe retention to not go anywhere.

But for now the Anti-slip is Great.
Click to expand...
Wow, imagine this. You pull someone over for speeding. You approach from the drivers side. You see the occupant has his hands on the steering wheel and window open. You get closer to notice a handgun 5 inches away from his right hand on the dashboard. Oh MY would that cause my heart to skip a couple of beats. :D


Personally I'd rather have it holstered on your hip OWB where you would have to do at least a couple of contortions to get at it. And also for *me* if you go out of the car and I could reasonably see it, then I would consider it being openly carried.
Click to expand...

If you place it on the dash during the traffic stop... place it with barrel facing forward and the right side down causingthe magazine well to be facing you. This makes it harder for you to grab and hold in your right hand.

I recommend you NEVER get out of your car unless told to do so. You can also be ordered to stay inside the vehicle or you could get cuffed and there is a chance you will be charged with obstruction. This goes for passengers too.

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1997/june976.htm

In the 1977 case of Mimms, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution allows a law enforcement officer who has made a lawful routine stop of a vehicle for a traffic offense to order the driver to exit the vehicle without requiring any additional factual justification.

In Maryland v. Wilson, the U.S. Supreme Court gave law enforcement officers the automatic authority to order all occupants from a lawfully stopped vehicle. In doing so, it concluded that such a slight restraint on an individual's freedom of movement is permissible under the Constitution when balanced against the concern for officer safety. Perhaps this ruling will allow law enforcement officers like the two police officers in Wilmington, Ohio, to go home at the end of the day, not because of the lack of accuracy on the part of a passenger in firing a firearm, but rather because the Constitution permits officers to exercise reasonable control over the occupants of a vehicle that has been lawfully stopped.
 
G

gregma

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
618
Location
Redmond, Washington, USA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
gregma wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
ParaWarthog wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
1girl ( HOT, if I may say ) smiled at me and took a Picture towards the Dash where the Kimber was in Plain site.
Click to expand...
LOL. It's always great to add a little description in your posts.

Do you drive with the gun on the "non slip" pad? 30 ounces (approx. loaded) isn't that heavy, until it's flying through the car at 100 mph and the 30 ounces is in the form of steel.
Click to expand...

You are right. I'm trying to get a holster to drill stuck to the Dash, I think I will get a Serpa. It's a Good and Safe retention to not go anywhere.

But for now the Anti-slip is Great.
Click to expand...
Wow, imagine this. You pull someone over for speeding. You approach from the drivers side. You see the occupant has his hands on the steering wheel and window open. You get closer to notice a handgun 5 inches away from his right hand on the dashboard. Oh MY would that cause my heart to skip a couple of beats. :D


Personally I'd rather have it holstered on your hip OWB where you would have to do at least a couple of contortions to get at it. And also for *me* if you go out of the car and I could reasonably see it, then I would consider it being openly carried.
Click to expand...

If you place it on the dash during the traffic stop... place it with barrel facing forward and the right side down causingthe magazine well to be facing you. This makes it harder for you to grab and hold in your right hand.
Click to expand...
Unless of course you're left handed. :)
 
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