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Thread: AL man says gunfire at police was in defense

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    I always wonder, in many shooting reportings, why they neglect to report on whether the shooter was carrying legally under a permit or not and whether the gun used was legal.

    The guy claimsself defense but the circumstantial evidence seems to cast doubt on that.

    It would be beneficial to know ifErvin was an illegal carrier of a gun (a criminal) or a legal carrier of a gun. As this story is connected to legal guncarriers in general, the former would be good, the latter, bad.





    Ervin says gunfire at police was in defense
    Also denies drug charge; prosecution says he ran
    Saturday, July 28, 2007
    ERIC VELASCONews staff writer
    The Birmingham News

    Derrick Phillip Ervin denied Friday that he is a drug dealer and told jurors in his Jefferson County trial that he fired in self-defense during a gun battle with a Birmingham police officer in an alley behind the Patio Club apartments in February 2006.

    But a prosecutor in Ervin's drug trafficking and attempted murder trial said Ervin was at the highest level of drug dealers.

    After the gun battle, police found 40 pounds of cocaine in an apartment at the complex rented by a co-defendant, Carl Sims. Almost $178,000 was inside Ervin's truck in the alley.

    Late Friday, Circuit Judge Alfred Bahakel let the jurors go home until Monday, when he will explain the law and they will deliberate. Ervin faces life without parole if he is convicted of trafficking that much cocaine.

    Sims pleaded guilty and testified against Ervin. A third defendant, Donald Curtis Lundy, will be tried later.

    Lundy, a former Fairfield police captain, is an investigator for the district attorney in Bessemer. He was reassigned to desk duty after his arrest.

    The special prosecutors assigned to the case, Rea Clark and Kenneth Gibbs, said Friday that Ervin was the top man in the group, Sims was one of his sellers and Lundy was "a dirty badge" providing protection.

    Defense attorney Brett Bloomston told jurors that Ervin was a legitimate businessman. Stanford never identified himself as a police officer in the alley, and Ervin opened fire to protect Lundy because Stanford started shooting at his friend.

    But Stanford and the other two officers testified that Stanford identified himself and had his badge out when he approached the men. Ervin fired first, they testified. Officer Earnest Lockett testified he shot at Lundy because he was pointing his gun at Stanford's back.

    In his closing argument Friday, Gibbs dismissed the self-defense claim. He said that Ervin fled, emptied the shells out of his .357-caliber revolver before hiding it, made three phone calls, then hid himself before police tracked him down.

    "Is this what a person does when they're acting in self-defense?" Gibbs said. "Or is this what a guilty man does when he shoots a cop and runs?"

    Moving some clothes:

    Ervin explained to jurors why his finger and palm print were found on two of the cocaine packages. He said they were sitting on the couch under clothes when he picked them up so he could sit down. He didn't know they were cocaine.

    Ervin testified that the cash was repayment for an investment he had made in a Houston nightclub. Ervin said he carried the cash-stuffed bag to work and to Sims' apartment over the next five days.

    "They don't believe in checks?" Gibbs asked jurors, saying a legitimate businessman wouldn't act that way. "He said he had been robbed before. So he goes to a drug-infested area with $178,000?"

    Bloomston said the prosecution case was "fraught with reasonable doubt." Police witnesses tailored their testimony to ensure a conviction, he said.

    "That was a lot of dope and a lot of money," Bloomston told jurors. "They wanted to get Donald Lundy and they wanted to get Derrick Ervin."

    http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnew...xml&coll=2



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    This guy seems a little shady though. I think there is some legitimacy to some of these guys' claims. I am not saying this particular guy is innocent. I bet most drug dealers carry for self protection. They probably rob each other all the time. The big question I have is whether or not the officer really identified himself? When it comes down to it I have never read an article where the cops fail to ID themselves. Humm. Is it fair to give even a criminal a more harsh sentence because he shot at cop without knowing? It is always tough to know what is fair when you don't have all the info. I love the idea of jury judgement but I sure hope if I serve on one it is a clear cut case.

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    The problem is that anybody can say they are a police officer. Hell, you can buy 'badges' at a dollar store. This guy does indeed sound shady, but we don't know all the facts.

    On another note, if some guy was running into your house shouting "FBI!" or "POLICE!", would you shoot?

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    Here's a theory that crossed my mind while reading this story:

    Lundy, the former police captain and dirty cop, was in on the deal. Maybe he knew how much money Ervin had, and leaked the info to a couple other dirty cops. The plan being: show up and arrest/kill Ervin, and then suddenly only $20,000 is found in the truck.

    I still think Ervin is dirty, but I wonder if the officers involved here are dirty too.
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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    The problem is that anybody can say they are a police officer. Hell, you can buy 'badges' at a dollar store. This guy does indeed sound shady, but we don't know all the facts.

    On another note, if some guy was running into your house shouting "FBI!" or "POLICE!", would you shoot?
    I agree here. What better way to steel from drug dealers. Do a fake raid. I don't know whether or not I would shoot. I don't even know if I would hear what they were saying. All I would probably hear is someone battering down my door and the sound of my pistol slide (hopefully in the near future the sound of the bolt of my rifle). I think police break down doors way too often. It makes things more dangerous for everyone. It seems like it would be way easier for them to wait until I go to work in the morning and intercept me in the driveway. They would have more of an advantage that way anyway. I found this website slightly interesting when thinking about your question.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

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    This ERVIN individual, who was convictedtoady, was not legally armed.He did nothave a pistol permit and the weapon he was carrying at the time of the incident last year was not purchased through the normal, legal channels.

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    lsc1819 wrote:
    This ERVIN individual, who was convictedtoady, was not legally armed.He did nothave a pistol permit and the weapon he was carrying at the time of the incident last year was not purchased through the normal, legal channels.
    Thanks for the info.

    It'ssomewhat appealing to believe your statements.

    But how do you know?

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    The problem is that anybody can say they are a police officer. Hell, you can buy 'badges' at a dollar store. This guy does indeed sound shady, but we don't know all the facts.

    On another note, if some guy was running into your house shouting "FBI!" or "POLICE!", would you shoot?
    Yes. I have a door and it has a door jamb. Knocking is a sure way to be invited in. Running through the door is a sure way to get shot if I don't know you and you aren't invited in. Provided of course, that I am armed at the time, I do not walk around with a gun in my hand. Anybody can yell any damn thing they want. If a cop has a warrant, he needs to give me the opportunity to read it after he knocks on my door and I invite him in and offer him coffee or dinner if the time of day is right.

    That is only to answer the question. I don't think I believe the self defense story of the defendant in this particular instance, unless he was fired on without warning, which so far doesn't appear to be the case.

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    On another note, if some guy was running into your house shouting "FBI!" or "POLICE!", would you shoot?
    Didn't some home invader try that recently? I seem to remember a story like that a month or two ago...

    Can't find it in the board, but maybe I'm not using the right search string....
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    straightarrow wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    The problem is that anybody can say they are a police officer. Hell, you can buy 'badges' at a dollar store. This guy does indeed sound shady, but we don't know all the facts.

    On another note, if some guy was running into your house shouting "FBI!" or "POLICE!", would you shoot?
    Yes. I have a door and it has a door jamb. Knocking is a sure way to be invited in. Running through the door is a sure way to get shot if I don't know you and you aren't invited in. Provided of course, that I am armed at the time, I do not walk around with a gun in my hand. Anybody can yell any damn thing they want. If a cop has a warrant, he needs to give me the opportunity to read it after he knocks on my door and I invite him in and offer him coffee or dinner if the time of day is right.

    That is only to answer the question. I don't think I believe the self defense story of the defendant in this particular instance, unless he was fired on without warning, which so far doesn't appear to be the case.
    Ever hear of a "No Knock Warrant"?........while I agree with your sentiment, there is no law that says you have to read the warrant before they enter.



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    The real question is why does our government fill up the jails with people convicted for drugs?

    Back in the early 1900's cocaine and marijuana were legal, cocaine was in the drink Coca Cola.

    Alcohol (a legal drug) has in my opinion, caused more death and destruction than all illegal drugs combined.

    Now are all these drugs destructive, sure, but the war on drugs is nothing more than the governmentcontrolling it'sown citizens with wiretaps, no knock entries, searches and illegal seizures.

    Our constitution has been shredded, our bill of rights trashed.

    America is a police state.

    If the police come crashing thru my door, I will respond with 7.62x51.


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    "Ever hear of a "No Knock Warrant"?........while I agree with your sentiment, there is no law that says you have to read the warrant before they enter."- CompTech

    Yes I have. It could get you killed at my house. If the invasion is successful and I survive, well let's just say they won't be the only players in town.

    I know there is no reason for my arrest on a damn thing, ergo that means anybody breaking and entering my home is an outlaw. There will be a price to pay.



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    Unless, of course, some complacent government paper-jockey transposes two numbers on a warrant...

    Like last November in Atlanta...
    http://www.theagitator.com/archives/027260.php

    Spokane last October...
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...nghouse05.html

    Jasper, TX, last September...
    http://www.reason.com/blog/show/121716.html

    Or an earlier case, Berg v. County of Allegheny, No. 98-3557, 219 F.3d 261 (3rd Cir. 2000).

    As a side note, I'm a bit worried about this sort of thing, because a County Sherrif come by a couple of months ago trying to serve a warrant from some Rodriguez guy.

    I wonder if there's someone I should call to find out if there's any other warrants or anything on this address....
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Unless doesn't cut it. They don't get to set the value on my rights, especially as not important enough to get it right. I set the value.

    I would support "no knock" warrants under only one condition. That being any officer wounded or killed serving a "no knock" is paid for. That, by law, no charges may be filed no suits may be filed against the homeowner if the warrant was defective in any way. Any way at all.

    Wanna make a bet how quickly there wouldn't be the need for them to play ninja warrior? That they would decide there more intelligent and safe ways to handle it.

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    HankT wrote:
    I always wonder, in many shooting reportings, why they neglect to report on whether the shooter was carrying legally under a permit or not and whether the gun used was legal.
    Easy. The media's job is to keep us in fear to make us more amenable to the confiscation of our rights by the government. To make ANY references to citizen carry--even to state that he does not have a license--lets the people know that licensing is available. While reporting on the very reason to arm yourself in the first place. They wouldn't be doing their job correctly if they actually suggested for a moment that you, as a US citizen, have the right to be an armed, resolute citizen capable of keeping your lawmakers accountable for their actions.

    daniel.call wrote:
    The big question I have is whether or not the officer really identified himself? When it comes down to it I have never read an article where the cops fail to ID themselves.
    Google Radley Balko's name. He covers tons of stories of no-knock warrants served by unmarked, armed men who refuse to identify themselves. Often over misdemeanor, non-violent ******** charges such as marijuana possession. I read one article where the guy was a small time gambler that was edged into bigger things by an undercover. When they went to serve that warrant for the tax-paying citizen that was tricked into crossing some political line, he ended up getting killed. What about the father who was staying the night at his brother's house with his six yo daughter? They were all sleeping. It wasn't even him they were after. But he saw armed intruders and opened fire to protect his daughter. He killed an unannounced policeman and now faces the death penalty for what people do every day in the defense of their homes and family. IIRC, that bust in found that the brother whom they were actually after in the first place had two ounces of weed.

    The no-knock warrant is the plague of our time and its growing in popularity and for increasingly unjustifiable applications. Check it out.

    I can't comment on the topic at hand. Truth is that none of us know the truth. Even if we had all the "facts," it would just be the ones that we're told, whether they're true or not. I have been in a situation where I would've been justified using lethal force against a badged JBT. So I don't doubt for a moment that it's possible. Is it a drug dealer trying to work the system? Is it an honest man being framed up after the fact in an effort to cover up police misconduct? The truth is we'll never know. More importantly, we have to realize that both are possible. The whole point of being armed is to defend your rights. The Second Amendment provided for the very revolution they had just fought. It is important that we educate ourselves that this DOES happen and that we're prepared to do the right thing if it happens to us and every day until then.

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