What to carry

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Drewesque wrote:

AbNo wrote:

Drewesque wrote:

If I've used more than 5 rounds in a defensive situation, something has gone horribly arwy.

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Or you're very lucky, at least for the moment.

Some people don't get TIME to let off 5 shots....

That being said, I'd like to have more than I "need", because, well, we know what people that talk about what others "need" are trying to do....

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If you've had time to fire 5 times and you have not stopped the threat, chances are you're in over your head. Mind you, I'm not advocating a policy of having only five bullets on you, just saying that capacity is not a huge issue in handgun selection. Especially since you should have found cover by the time you need to reload.

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You may not always be in over your head. You might be trying to hit a moving target, while scrambling for cover yourself.

How many people here try to move while firing? Move while firing at a moving target? Because, let's face it, if you've drawn, the guy you are drawing upon is *probably* not going to be standing still at this point.

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xmirage2kx wrote:

To start thanks for all the suggestions. I know I need to go and try a bunch of different guns out before I buy one. And this list has helped me compile a few more to look at. There are so many different models and brands to choose from that making the best choice can be difficult. 

 

Are there any models that you would suggest to stay away from? I don’t want to open a can of worms or start a my gun is better than your gun battle, rather just find out issues people have had so I know what to look out for.  

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Obviously mentioning ANY firearm by name as something to avoid, starts an argument. That said there are some universal guidelines that most people will agree on.

First find something that fits your hand well, feels right on your hip (or wherever you plan to carry it), that is of a caliber that is among those generally considered effective, and that you can shoot well.

Try to buy the best quality you can afford. Not that inexpensive weapons are necessarily all bad, but you do get what you pay for in most cases. Generally speaking, the more well know manufacturers make the best quality firearms, but don't just go by brand. With most firearms, the level of quality is usually very apparent.

You need something that you are willing to bet your life on to work first time every time. Locate and read reviews and check for recalls or reported defects in the model you select before you buy.

Good luck

Regards

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Hawkflyer wrote:

xmirage2kx wrote:

To start thanks for all the suggestions. I know I need to go and try a bunch of different guns out before I buy one. And this list has helped me compile a few more to look at. There are so many different models and brands to choose from that making the best choice can be difficult.



Are there any models that you would suggest to stay away from? I don’t want to open a can of worms or start a my gun is better than your gun battle, rather just find out issues people have had so I know what to look out for.

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Obviously mentioning ANY firearm by name as something to avoid, starts an argument. That said there are some universal guidelines that most people will agree on.

First find something that fits your hand well, feels right on your hip (or wherever you plan to carry it), that is of a caliber that is among those generally considered effective, and that you can shoot well.

Try to buy the best quality you can afford. Not that inexpensive weapons are necessarily all bad, but you do get what you pay for in most cases. Generally speaking, the more well know manufacturers make the best quality firearms, but don't just go by brand. With most firearms, the level of quality is usually very apparent.

You need something that you are willing to bet your life on to work first time every time. Locate and read reviews and check for recalls or reported defects in the model you select before you buy.

Good luck

Regards

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Great point!

Not that I have encountered anyone on this forum who has had this mindset, but many of my friends (none of them own a single firearm), have said my gun is junk, any many other terms.

I carry a S&W sigma, its almost brand new, It has had not one jam, misfire, or any problem and I am right now at about 800 rounds through it.

They all say Glock, Glock! While glocks are supposedly great firearms, and from what I have read, studied, the quality is there, that does not mean that you cannot find comperable quality in another manufacturer, in this case the sigma is almost identical to the glock, so close, that they were sued for patent infringement.

My point is, you cannot go by what other people expect of you, know what you need, and what you can handle, while at the same time finding a firearm that is suitable for the intended purposes.

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daniel.call wrote:

Drewesque wrote:

AbNo wrote:

Drewesque wrote:

If I've used more than 5 rounds in a defensive situation, something has gone horribly arwy.

Click to expand...

Or you're very lucky, at least for the moment.

Some people don't get TIME to let off 5 shots....

That being said, I'd like to have more than I "need", because, well, we know what people that talk about what others "need" are trying to do....

Click to expand...

If you've had time to fire 5 times and you have not stopped the threat, chances are you're in over your head. Mind you, I'm not advocating a policy of having only five bullets on you, just saying that capacity is not a huge issue in handgun selection. Especially since you should have found cover by the time you need to reload.

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If you even have to use one round in defensive situation something has gone terribly wrong. I agree that most of the time you will never need more than five shots. I also agree that most of the time I don't even need a gun. I like to have lots of bullets in my mag. I don't carry spares for the most part. I should but I don't. I'm not too terribly fast on my mag changes either. Need to practice more. Lets say after five shots I have found cover. What do I do now? I still need bullets to protect my position. Capacity is important to me. If I only plan for most situations I wouldn't even carry. If I do find myself in over my head I woulnd't mind surviving. Need to get around to carrying my spare mags.

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As I already said, capacity is not the issue here. If you can get to cover, you can reload. And using five shots without finding cover or eliminating the threat is when something is definitely wrong. Train. The goal is not to put as much lead out there as possible, but to hit the target. If you just throw lead, you endanger others and do very little good.

I don't plan for the best situation, but I don't plan to take out Hans Gruber (though I'd have a lot of time to reload between terrorists if Bruce Willis is any kind of a role model). I plan for the sort of attack I could find myself defending against.

While I carry an XD45, which has great capacity, a revolver is not a mistake by any means.

We probably won't ever agree on this, but we don't have to. I won't force anyone to carry less than they are comfortable with, and I'm certain you won't force anyone to carry a higher-capacity firearm than they choose. You carry what you want, I'll carry my choice, and anyone else can make their own choice, as well.

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Drewesque wrote:

I won't force anyone to carry less than they are comfortable with....

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Isn't that the important thing?

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Agent19 wrote:

All other defensive loads are compared to the King fight stopper:

The 125 gr JHP .357 magnum round fired from a 4" bbl revolver @ 1450 fps/584ft/lbs was the most common load used for defense purposes throughout most of the 20th century.

However the .357 magcan be loadedto 1600fps and a whooping 710ft/lbs with a 125gr JHP from a 4"barreled revolver.

Here aresome9mm loadings fired from a 4.5'bbl gun:

9mm 115gr+P @ 1415fps/511 ft lbs
9mm 124gr @ 1310fps / 473 ft lbs
9mm "Ranger"127+p+ @ 1250fps/440 ft. lbs


Here are a few40SW loads:


135gr JHP @1310fps/ 515 ft/lbs from a 3.5"bbl.


135grJHP@ 1420fps/605 ft/lbs from a 4.5"bbl. most likely used for duty being the G22 is the most popular 40SW issued.

This is thepackage most non sworn personswill find themselves with
A 135gr. @ 1375fps / 567 ft/lbs- G23 (4.0"bbl)


The 45acp with a 165gr @ 1325fps/643ft lbs (commerically available loading) fired from a 5" 1911 surpasses the energy of the vaulted 125gr 357 and has greater sectional density.

A 45acp with a 185gr @1225fps/616ft/lbs(commercial loading) fired from a 5" 1911

In my opinion the best.357sig load a 125gr @ 1525fps/645ft/lbs fired from a 4.5 barrel surpasses the energy of the 45acp as wella 125grJHP from a 4" 357mag.

The fastest .357sig loading is a 115gr JHP from a 4.5" barrel @1612fps/663ft/lbs.

The problem with .357sig it is hard too find in any loading, more expensive and the 4.5" bbl gun ISN"T the one most likely to be carried.
For defense purposes most will carry this caliber in a 3.5 or 4"bbl.

A 4"bbl the125gr load produces 1450fps/584ft/lbs.

A 3.5bbl it drops to 1415fps/555ft/lbs

The .357sig with a 115gr JHP from a 3.5" barrel@1494fps/567ft/lbs,
A4"bbl @1550fps/614ft/lbs.


A very common gun carried is the 38spl snub nose revolver.
The best this little hideout can muster from a 2"bbl:

A 125grJHP+p load@ 1050fps/306ft/lbs
A 158LSWCHP+p load @ 1000fps/351ft /lbs

And for standard pressure:
A 158gr SWC @ 854fps/ 256 ft/lbs

The anemic .380 delivers almost as much as standard38spl loadsand you get a slim profile,more rounds,and a faster reload.

A Speer GD 90grJHP @1000fps/200 ft lbs fired from a Kel-Tec P3AT
A Speer GD 90grJHP @1100fps/242 ft lbs fired from a Bersa

NOW we get to the King of energy from common sized auto loading pistols.

The 10mm

All loads fired from a 4.6"bbl gun, the most common to be used in this caliber
A 135gr @ 1600fps/767ft/lbs
A155gr @ 1475fps/750ft/lbs.
A 165gr @ 1400fps/718ft/lbs
A 180gr @ 1350fps/728 ft/lbs
A 200gr @ 1275fps /722 ft/lbs

I find the 10mm is no harder to shoot than a 45acp in the same package.

With a $1000 budget there is a whole lot to choose from.
As others have suggested make a list of guns your interested in.
I suggest spending some of that $1000 at a local range and try a fewguns/calibers you think you might want to carry.

Please don't forget to buy a quality belt and holster for your new gun.
Uncle Mikesmakes a good gun belt for under $30 @http://www.botac.com

As for a holster there are so many, first decide if you want a IWB or OWB.

This is my OWB rig

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Energy delivered is NOT indicative of the performance of bullet performance when it strikes a body. This is called "terminal ballistics" and very few people are qualified to talk about it in any meaningful way. There are many variables that affect how bullets behave in flesh and no forum post can adequately cover this topic.

Delivered energy is too simplistic to describe bullet performance and is a product of marketing folks. You should search around for additional sources of information.

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A good start would be to get on warriortalk.com and search for posts by AmmoLab. He works in the industry in ballistic testing and makes recommendations.

Just remember: handguns are wimpy and don't believe the "one shot stop" garbage. Assume your ammunition will fail and give 'em two or three to the chest and head.

In short: get quality hollowpoint ammunition in 9mm caliber or greater.


***

In flipping through the previous posts, I've noticed some opinions about round count. Don't believe these! They're just opinions that are not based UPON THE DYNAMICS OF THE FIGHT YOU'RE IN. In other words...you cannot read the future. The fight will develop and you may fire one or more rounds. Just because you fired 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 100 rounds doesn't mean "you're in over your head" (ie: you have lost so just give up). Instead, you need to be smart and fight tactically. If possible, break up the fight into single battles by moving. Even so, you may end up using all your weapons...fists, feet, knives, and gun.

Gunfighting is HARD and there's no simple solution that can be purchased or read on an internet forum.

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Warriortalk.com "To view any of our forums you are required to login then, you may select the forum(s) that you want to visit from the selection listed."

Forget that.

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:?

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AbNo wrote:

Warriortalk.com "To view any of our forums you are required to login then, you may select the forum(s) that you want to visit from the selection listed."

Forget that.

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It's worth it.