View Poll Results: BEST LTL

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  • Taser

    6 22.22%
  • Stun Gun

    1 3.70%
  • Pepper Spray

    7 25.93%
  • 13 48.15%
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Thread: Taser, Pepper Spray?

  1. #1
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    I have come to the decision that it would be wise as well as adventageous to have something less lethal in addition to my firearm.

    If I was in a situation where drawing a firearm, may not be the best course, it would be nice to have something LTL to be able to stop a threat...

    I would like to carry a TASER, Stun Gun, or OC (pepper spray). I am leaning the most to OC, but wondering what the rest of the group would weigh in like.

  2. #2
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    Voted for spray, not out of effectiveness, but just to be able to show you were prepared for a LTL situation in the event of deadly force being used. Even a key ring OC spray would work to show this and could be used if needed. Tasers are too big still and stun guns require H2H proximity. If there is a deadly threat, even a knife within 21 feet, be prepared with deadly force first. If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.

  3. #3
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    Wouldn't it be nice to be able to attatch a taser to a rail on a Sigma, or Glock?

    I think that would be a pretty sweet add-on!

  4. #4
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.
    This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

    LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

    For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

    Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!

  5. #5
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    I can't carry at work, and I've been getting hassled by crazy people the last couple of weeks, so I've been looking at getting some spray or a taser.

    Or both.


    And a CCW, just so I can *cough* at work. (part of why I want a pocket gun)
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  6. #6
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    OC (I mean pepper spray not open carry) is always a good option, carrying your weapon or not. There are certain situations where you can not justified to use leathal force, but are justified to use OC.

  7. #7
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    HankT wrote:
    cato wrote:
    If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.
    This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

    LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

    For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

    Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!
    I hate hearing the "run away" thing. As a man with three pins in my knee,its a physical impossibility for me to run.

    The least lethal thing I currently carry is my knives. I sincerely wish VA would let me carry cough brass knuckles, that'd be like the perfect weapon for IMHO.

    My impressions:

    Stungun- Takes too long to pull out,or arm. Most have a wist loop you need to wear,and some sort of rather small/dinky safety switch that you slide to arm it,then an actual firing botton. If you have one that DOESN'T have a wist loop,I hope you have strong hands and fast reflexes so the weapon isn't taking from you.

    Pepper Spray/OC Pepper/Mace- Be very careful. I've heard many many stories of simple backwinds,or etc where people have breathed in the fumes from their own weapon. According to Kimber lifeacts website, pepper spray is so slow the BG (bad guy) can usually jump out of the way anyway.

    Taser-as aforementioned by others, is ratherl arge to carry in addition to a firearm. If Im going to carry something of that size, its gonna be lethal. Besides the cost, last I looked into tasers,I could buy a glock or SA for that...and aren't they only one shot?

  8. #8
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    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    cato wrote:
    If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.
    This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

    LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

    For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

    Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!
    I hate hearing the "run away" thing. As a man with three pins in my knee,its a physical impossibility for me to run.

    Well, that's just an individual difference for you. Most people can run. And they can run pretty darn fast when motivated. Since you have physical limitations, you have to adapt to them. But most people can scoot away or avoid proximity if they have a high level of awareness and are decisive.

    To the general populace, including those who are armed, running away from a threat is a really good option--if it is or can be effective. Why stick around for a deadly force event if you can avoid it?

    Run like you stole something.


    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    The least lethal thing I currently carry is my knives. I sincerely wish VA would let me carry cough brass knuckles, that'd be like the perfect weapon for IMHO.

    My impressions:

    Stungun- Takes too long to pull out,or arm. Most have a wist loop you need to wear,and some sort of rather small/dinky safety switch that you slide to arm it,then an actual firing botton. If you have one that DOESN'T have a wist loop,I hope you have strong hands and fast reflexes so the weapon isn't taking from you.

    Pepper Spray/OC Pepper/Mace- Be very careful. I've heard many many stories of simple backwinds,or etc where people have breathed in the fumes from their own weapon. According to Kimber lifeacts website, pepper spray is so slow the BG (bad guy) can usually jump out of the way anyway.

    Taser-as aforementioned by others, is ratherl arge to carry in addition to a firearm. If Im going to carry something of that size, its gonna be lethal. Besides the cost, last I looked into tasers,I could buy a glock or SA for that...and aren't they only one shot?
    All of these have some value. And they all have a huge benefit of being non-lethal. The key is whether they would be effective or not. That is a result based on probality and competence.

    The Taser X26C is not that big, actually. And the new C2 is not huge, smaller than a full frame gun.

    Considering whether an LTL weapon is better than a gun is not effectively done on the criteria of price or size. Gotta use the right tool for the job. I mean, it's your life, right?So what if a C2 costs $350? Oran X26 costs$900?Sometimes the gun is the perfect tool for the job, sometimes the Taser...

    No use using a gun if something less lethal will do the job at hand.





  9. #9
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    Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:P. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes. You have highs and lows on everything, including firearms....and so far,thankfully I'ven ever had the need to run. I tryed running in June, we were all playing around....I ended up in the hospital two days, I broke my 'good leg'. Back on topic, sorry I'm too long winded. lol.

    Look into Kimbers lifeact

  10. #10
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    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:P. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes.
    Well, it's kind of funny. College students are notoriously poor but they do spend lots of money on cell phones, electronics, books,cars, clothes,travel, creditandhousing.

    College students pretty much know how to get the stuff they really need.


    Besides, not everybody is a college student. Theyare the minority here, for example.

  11. #11
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    HankT wrote:
    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:P. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes.
    Well, it's kind of funny. College students are notoriously poor but they do spend lots of money on cell phones, electronics, books,cars, clothes,travel, creditandhousing.

    College students pretty much know how to get the stuff they really need.


    Besides, not everybody is a college student. Theyare the minority here, for example.
    I never could figure that one out when I was a student. I worked at least two jobs at a time and still had only the money to eat, have a roof over my head, and attend class. If I saved up some money, it was probably going to go toward tuition the next semester.
    Seems like the ones who have all that extra money end up waaaay in debt by the time they're done. I didn't like that idea, so I kept driving an old car my great grandfather had given me and not doing much of anything.

  12. #12
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    ASP baton, and some training.

    The taser only gives you (realistically) only one shot... And a stun-gun requires very close proximity... And pepper-spray is of limited effectiveness, unless a significant quantity can be delivered to a sensitive area.

    They all have their advantages and disadvantages... personally (after asking several similar questions myself), I'll take a stun-baton or similar.

  13. #13
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    I would say pepper spray is an option. I wouldn't carry the run-of-the-mill pepper spray that can come back and get you. Look into something new Kimber has come out with. It's called Guardian Angel; retail suggested price is $39.95; sprays 13 ft at 90mph. See add in this month's issue of NRA's American Rifleman magazine; pg. 45. It's thin and compact, and you can clip it on your belt with your gun.

  14. #14
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I would say the taser....as in the ones the cops carry, is the best option for LTL, one shot stop, period. You can maintain your distance from your attacker while still incapacitating them, and if it's going to work, it's going to work......and you have as much time as you do battery power. You see the police do this all the time; if the guy wants to still fight after being tased, you shock him again by pulling the trigger - you get another 5 second burst of power as long as the barbs are in his skin. Repeat until the police show up.

    Now if we all had unlimited funds, this would be what I would have.....but since the issue of these costing $600 is one we can't ignore, I don't happen to have one, and I'm sure not too many other people do either. I do have a "50,000 volt!" stun gun, but I long ago relegated that to a desk drawer, never to be seen again, simply because when you close that distance it is too easy for said BG to pull it away and use it on YOU instead.....and they just don't seem to work, even if you do get close enough and direct contact with skin. The taser's "needles" spread far apart before they hit the skin and spread out the charge, whereas the stun gun's contact points are close together, so the arc is very small. I do have OC, which is I think the most affordable, realistic LTL device for a civilian to have. It is inexpensive, when used properly has a decent chance of stopping someone who is serious, but not THAT serious. If they are THAT serious, it's time to escalate the force, because no LTL I know of will put a seriously determined attacker down.......and they probably aren't trying to "kick your a**" at that point anyways, they are most likely going to kill you if they get the chance.......

  15. #15
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    openryan wrote:
    I have come to the decision that it would be wise as well as adventageous to have something less lethal in addition to my firearm.

    If I was in a situation where drawing a firearm, may not be the best course, it would be nice to have something LTL to be able to stop a threat...

    I would like to carry a TASER, Stun Gun, or OC (pepper spray). I am leaning the most to OC, but wondering what the rest of the group would weigh in like.
    Less than lethal defences should, in my opinion, not include any of the above.

    The following are the probable outcomes of the use of the above

    1. They are totally ineffective and do not phase the assailant.

    2. They are partly effective and anger the assailant, escalating the confrontation.

    3. They miss the intended target and or disable you, rendering you helpless.

    4. They work as intended

    5. In the case of the TASER or Stun Gun, they kill the assailant (a not to un-common result) and you are in deep do-do

    6. You get so flustered trying to decide which method of defense to use, you, or some other innocent person ends up dead.

    Of the6 possible outcomes, 5 are bad.

    I don't like those odds.

    If I don't fear for my life, I talk, I run or I fight.

    If I fear for my life;

    1. I draw and fire until the threat stops

    2. I re-holster my weapon

    3. I call and then wait for the police

    4. I state that I feared for my life and I stopped the threat.

    5. I state that all other questions will be answered by my Lawyer

  16. #16
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    I'm gonna have to go with Tarzan on this one. Very well said and well thought out.

  17. #17
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    One reason to carry pepper spray, or something else that is less lethal than a gun is if you get into a situation where you have to defend yourself by drawing your weapon and shooting someone, it will help your self defense claim if you can show that you tried to use a less lethal self defense form, and that did not work. Subsequently, you were forced to shoot the attacker.

  18. #18
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    I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.

  19. #19
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.
    Agreed....but on that same token, you don't want to be shooting someone when there is no way you can prove that person was a threat to your life or someone else's. Hence, LTL options......I don't think we're talking about trying to go up against a BG with a knife using OC or a Taser here, I'm pulling my .45 and using it at that point. But if this is a big guy that can probably pound my a** and he just wants to fight me, I'd rather use OC or a Taser to stop said guy rather than having my only options be to shoot him or just let him stomp me.......

  20. #20
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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.

    I agree completely.


    compmanio365 wrote:
    Agreed....but on that same token, you don't want to be shooting someone when there is no way you can prove that person was a threat to your life or someone else's. Hence, LTL options......I don't think we're talking about trying to go up against a BG with a knife using OC or a Taser here, I'm pulling my .45 and using it at that point. But if this is a big guy that can probably pound my a** and he just wants to fight me, I'd rather use OC or a Taser to stop said guy rather than having my only options be to shoot him or just let him stomp me.......

    If lethal force is required and administered and the threat stopped, then the evidence will speak for its self, and you will be the only one alive to point that out.

    If he is big and wants to pound you, you talk or run or fight, your choice, but IF YOU FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE YOU STOP THE THREAT.

    I was once forced into a fight such as you describe. I was about 6' 4" and all of 135 pounds and my antagonist was about 6'3" and 240.

    When the fight was over his friends removed the bloody pulp from the floor and took him home.

    The last time I was attacked thusly, I ended up the bloody pulp and he ended up in jail as I picked my self up and found the sheriff. He had hit me in the head with a cast he had on his arm from surgery on his thumb, and rung my bell.

    I don't start fights and I do my best to avoid them, even to running if possible (I can still run)

    No one was out to kill me and deadly force was not required

    Tarzan


  21. #21
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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    If lethal force is required and administered and the threat stopped, then the evidence will speak for its self, and you will be the only one alive to point that out.
    But can you convince a jury of that? And wouldn't you want to do anything possible to make it easier to convince a court that you weren't just out to kill the guy? Being able to say you used a LTL weapon before you used lethal force could go a long way in places like CA, where the general population isn't so gun friendly. You carry a gun because you want to be prepared for the worst possible scenario: a threat upon your life or the lives of your loved ones. But once you win the fight things don't end; that's when you have to make your case that you had no other choice but to kill the assailant. Wouldn't you want to be prepared for that as well? If you can say "I used OC spray on him in an attempt to deter him, but he continued his assault, so I was forced to resort to lethal force", the jury might be much more inclined to believe that you weren't just looking for an excuse to use your gun.

    It's not always going to be as clear-cut as you think it will be. It's not enough to say "I feared for my life", you have to be able to convince a court that a "reasonable" person would have feared for their life in the same situation. You will have to convince them that your life was in immediate and unavoidable danger, and that you had no choice but to shoot.

    Plus, even if lethal force isn't called for, what if you can't outrun the guy? What if you can't run period (maybe not because of a physical disability, but perhaps because of your location in a building)? Should you just let the guy pound your face in?


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    I voted for OC. None of the above are 100% and they all have the their problems. Stun gun you have to be within anarms distance. Taser's are really expensive and both probes have to stick, andstay stuck,in order to work. OC is cheap and easy to carry. But, it doesn't work on everybody.

  23. #23
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    I voted for Taser.

    If LTL force is required, it's the best overall choice. It's most like a handgun and if used properly will stop the threat. It ain't no accident that all those police officers are using them. They work.

    The problem is that it is really hard to justify carrying both a Taser and a handgun, seems to me. But having a Taser in the car might be just the ticket...

    I really like the X26c but it's around $900.

    Overall, though, I would much rather Taser somebody and stop a threat than to shoot somebody and stop a threat. YMMV, of course.

  24. #24
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    I've personally seen several guys get tazed 4 or 5 times and the taser was not effective for whatever reason.

    I've been sprayed with mace and Pepper spray & you can fight thrugh it to attack the person who has sprayed you. Have seen quite a few people that mace & pepper spray failed on.

    Personally unless I'm a LEo I'll leave the less than lethal tactics to the LEO's and I'll break contact & find a egress unless deadly force is called for.

    Side bar:

    Have seen guys tazed in the nut sack & they screamed & dropped like rocks, but the best tazing I've ever seen was when a bad guy turnd while running and got the barb in the eye :what::what: He was Ok, with no eye or vision damage, but woza did he scream and do the funky chicken on the way down.

  25. #25
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    CaliforniaCarry wrote:
    tarzan1888 wrote:
    If lethal force is required and administered and the threat stopped, then the evidence will speak for its self, and you will be the only one alive to point that out.
    But can you convince a jury of that?......
    Good question. A question that no one has the answer to, but a question that would possibly never be asked if you DON"T stop the threat, as you could very well be DEAD.

    There is an old adage, that is still very true, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    Each of us is responsible for our own , and our families protection. You decide how you will best do that, I have.

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