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Taser, Pepper Spray?

BEST LTL

  • Stun Gun

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pepper Spray

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • :)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

openryan

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I have come to the decision that it would be wise as well as adventageous to have something less lethal in addition to my firearm.

If I was in a situation where drawing a firearm, may not be the best course, it would be nice to have something LTL to be able to stop a threat...

I would like to carry a TASER, Stun Gun, or OC (pepper spray). I am leaning the most to OC, but wondering what the rest of the group would weigh in like.
 

cato

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Voted for spray, not out of effectiveness, but just to be able to show you were prepared for a LTL situation in the event of deadly force being used. Even a key ring OC spray would work to show this and could be used if needed. Tasers are too big still and stun guns require H2H proximity. If there is a deadly threat, even a knife within 21 feet, be prepared with deadly force first. If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.
 

openryan

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Wouldn't it be nice to be able to attatch a taser to a rail on a Sigma, or Glock?

I think that would be a pretty sweet add-on!
 

HankT

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cato wrote:
If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.

This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!
 

AbNo

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I can't carry at work, and I've been getting hassled by crazy people the last couple of weeks, so I've been looking at getting some spray or a taser.

Or both.


And a CCW, just so I can *cough* at work. (part of why I want a pocket gun)
 

Bravo_Sierra

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OC (I mean pepper spray not open carry) is always a good option, carrying your weapon or not. There are certain situations where you can not justified to use leathal force, but are justified to use OC.
 

Ghettokracker71

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HankT wrote:
cato wrote:
If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.

This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!
I hate hearing the "run away" thing. As a man with three pins in my knee,its a physical impossibility for me to run:cuss:.

The least lethal thing I currently carry is my knives. I sincerely wish VA would let me carry cough brass knuckles, that'd be like the perfect weapon for IMHO.

My impressions:

Stungun- Takes too long to pull out,or arm. Most have a wist loop you need to wear,and some sort of rather small/dinky safety switch that you slide to arm it,then an actual firing botton. If you have one that DOESN'T have a wist loop,I hope you have strong hands and fast reflexes so the weapon isn't taking from you.

Pepper Spray/OC Pepper/Mace- Be very careful. I've heard many many stories of simple backwinds,or etc where people have breathed in the fumes from their own weapon. According to Kimber lifeacts website, pepper spray is so slow the BG (bad guy) can usually jump out of the way anyway.

Taser-as aforementioned by others, is ratherl arge to carry in addition to a firearm. If Im going to carry something of that size, its gonna be lethal. Besides the cost, last I looked into tasers,I could buy a glock or SA for that...and aren't they only one shot?
 

HankT

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Ghettokracker71 wrote:
HankT wrote:
cato wrote:
If you have time to use spray, and no deadly threat is present,I'd recommend fleeing ifdoing sodoesn't leave anyone else in danger.

This is the key: ifthe assailant isarmed (or otherwise represents a deadly threat).

LTL weapons are almost perfect for unarmed threats. Not quite perfect, but pretty dman good.

For a civilian, shooting an unarmed person is a bad strategy. Muchbetter to take a punch or kick or two or threethan to shoot.

Running away is a highly desirable defense tactic. In fact, removing oneself from a threatening situation with an unarmed person should be #1 tactic. Run like you stole something!
I hate hearing the "run away" thing. As a man with three pins in my knee,its a physical impossibility for me to run:cuss:.
Well, that's just an individual difference for you. Most people can run. And they can run pretty darn fast when motivated. Since you have physical limitations, you have to adapt to them. But most people can scoot away or avoid proximity if they have a high level of awareness and are decisive.

To the general populace, including those who are armed, running away from a threat is a really good option--if it is or can be effective. Why stick around for a deadly force event if you can avoid it?

Run like you stole something.


Ghettokracker71 wrote:
The least lethal thing I currently carry is my knives. I sincerely wish VA would let me carry cough brass knuckles, that'd be like the perfect weapon for IMHO.

My impressions:

Stungun- Takes too long to pull out,or arm. Most have a wist loop you need to wear,and some sort of rather small/dinky safety switch that you slide to arm it,then an actual firing botton. If you have one that DOESN'T have a wist loop,I hope you have strong hands and fast reflexes so the weapon isn't taking from you.

Pepper Spray/OC Pepper/Mace- Be very careful. I've heard many many stories of simple backwinds,or etc where people have breathed in the fumes from their own weapon. According to Kimber lifeacts website, pepper spray is so slow the BG (bad guy) can usually jump out of the way anyway.

Taser-as aforementioned by others, is ratherl arge to carry in addition to a firearm. If Im going to carry something of that size, its gonna be lethal. Besides the cost, last I looked into tasers,I could buy a glock or SA for that...and aren't they only one shot?
All of these have some value. And they all have a huge benefit of being non-lethal. The key is whether they would be effective or not. That is a result based on probality and competence.

The Taser X26C is not that big, actually. And the new C2 is not huge, smaller than a full frame gun.

Considering whether an LTL weapon is better than a gun is not effectively done on the criteria of price or size. Gotta use the right tool for the job. I mean, it's your life, right?So what if a C2 costs $350? Oran X26 costs$900?Sometimes the gun is the perfect tool for the job, sometimes the Taser...

No use using a gun if something less lethal will do the job at hand.
 

Ghettokracker71

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Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:p. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes. You have highs and lows on everything, including firearms....and so far,thankfully I'ven ever had the need to run. I tryed running in June, we were all playing around....I ended up in the hospital two days, I broke my 'good leg'. Back on topic, sorry I'm too long winded. lol.

Look into Kimbers lifeact
 

HankT

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Ghettokracker71 wrote:
Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:p. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes.
Well, it's kind of funny. College students are notoriously poor but they do spend lots of money on cell phones, electronics, books,cars, clothes,travel, creditandhousing.

College students pretty much know how to get the stuff they really need.


Besides, not everybody is a college student. Theyare the minority here, for example.
 

Drewesque

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HankT wrote:
Ghettokracker71 wrote:
Well college students can't afford to just throw around another 600$ for a taser,and etc....I know I can't:p. I'm not saying those less than lethal weapons are effective, just my takes.
Well, it's kind of funny. College students are notoriously poor but they do spend lots of money on cell phones, electronics, books,cars, clothes,travel, creditandhousing.

College students pretty much know how to get the stuff they really need.


Besides, not everybody is a college student. Theyare the minority here, for example.
I never could figure that one out when I was a student. I worked at least two jobs at a time and still had only the money to eat, have a roof over my head, and attend class. If I saved up some money, it was probably going to go toward tuition the next semester.
Seems like the ones who have all that extra money end up waaaay in debt by the time they're done. I didn't like that idea, so I kept driving an old car my great grandfather had given me and not doing much of anything.
 

molonlabetn

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, Tennessee, USA
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ASP baton, and some training.

The taser only gives you (realistically) only one shot... And a stun-gun requires very close proximity... And pepper-spray is of limited effectiveness, unless a significant quantity can be delivered to a sensitive area.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages... personally (after asking several similar questions myself), I'll take a stun-baton or similar.
 

dng

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I would say pepper spray is an option. I wouldn't carry the run-of-the-mill pepper spray that can come back and get you. Look into something new Kimber has come out with. It's called Guardian Angel; retail suggested price is $39.95; sprays 13 ft at 90mph. See add in this month's issue of NRA's American Rifleman magazine; pg. 45. It's thin and compact, and you can clip it on your belt with your gun.
 

compmanio365

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I would say the taser....as in the ones the cops carry, is the best option for LTL, one shot stop, period. You can maintain your distance from your attacker while still incapacitating them, and if it's going to work, it's going to work......and you have as much time as you do battery power. You see the police do this all the time; if the guy wants to still fight after being tased, you shock him again by pulling the trigger - you get another 5 second burst of power as long as the barbs are in his skin. Repeat until the police show up.

Now if we all had unlimited funds, this would be what I would have.....but since the issue of these costing $600 is one we can't ignore, I don't happen to have one, and I'm sure not too many other people do either. I do have a "50,000 volt!" stun gun, but I long ago relegated that to a desk drawer, never to be seen again, simply because when you close that distance it is too easy for said BG to pull it away and use it on YOU instead.....and they just don't seem to work, even if you do get close enough and direct contact with skin. The taser's "needles" spread far apart before they hit the skin and spread out the charge, whereas the stun gun's contact points are close together, so the arc is very small. I do have OC, which is I think the most affordable, realistic LTL device for a civilian to have. It is inexpensive, when used properly has a decent chance of stopping someone who is serious, but not THAT serious. If they are THAT serious, it's time to escalate the force, because no LTL I know of will put a seriously determined attacker down.......and they probably aren't trying to "kick your a**" at that point anyways, they are most likely going to kill you if they get the chance.......
 

tarzan1888

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openryan wrote:
I have come to the decision that it would be wise as well as adventageous to have something less lethal in addition to my firearm.

If I was in a situation where drawing a firearm, may not be the best course, it would be nice to have something LTL to be able to stop a threat...

I would like to carry a TASER, Stun Gun, or OC (pepper spray). I am leaning the most to OC, but wondering what the rest of the group would weigh in like.

Less than lethal defences should, in my opinion, not include any of the above.

The following are the probable outcomes of the use of the above

1. They are totally ineffective and do not phase the assailant.

2. They are partly effective and anger the assailant, escalating the confrontation.

3. They miss the intended target and or disable you, rendering you helpless.

4. They work as intended

5. In the case of the TASER or Stun Gun, they kill the assailant (a not to un-common result) and you are in deep do-do

6. You get so flustered trying to decide which method of defense to use, you, or some other innocent person ends up dead.

Of the6 possible outcomes, 5 are bad.

I don't like those odds.

If I don't fear for my life, I talk, I run or I fight.

If I fear for my life;

1. I draw and fire until the threat stops

2. I re-holster my weapon

3. I call and then wait for the police

4. I state that I feared for my life and I stopped the threat.

5. I state that all other questions will be answered by my Lawyer
 

dng

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One reason to carry pepper spray, or something else that is less lethal than a gun is if you get into a situation where you have to defend yourself by drawing your weapon and shooting someone, it will help your self defense claim if you can show that you tried to use a less lethal self defense form, and that did not work. Subsequently, you were forced to shoot the attacker.
 

Reverend73

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I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.
 

compmanio365

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Reverend73 wrote:
I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.
Agreed....but on that same token, you don't want to be shooting someone when there is no way you can prove that person was a threat to your life or someone else's. Hence, LTL options......I don't think we're talking about trying to go up against a BG with a knife using OC or a Taser here, I'm pulling my .45 and using it at that point. But if this is a big guy that can probably pound my a** and he just wants to fight me, I'd rather use OC or a Taser to stop said guy rather than having my only options be to shoot him or just let him stomp me.......
 

tarzan1888

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Reverend73 wrote:
I disagree, and ask you to cite one instance where this has happened. If lethal force is justified, it is justified, there is no need to try a less than lethal tool first.


I agree completely.


compmanio365 wrote:
Agreed....but on that same token, you don't want to be shooting someone when there is no way you can prove that person was a threat to your life or someone else's. Hence, LTL options......I don't think we're talking about trying to go up against a BG with a knife using OC or a Taser here, I'm pulling my .45 and using it at that point. But if this is a big guy that can probably pound my a** and he just wants to fight me, I'd rather use OC or a Taser to stop said guy rather than having my only options be to shoot him or just let him stomp me.......


If lethal force is required and administered and the threat stopped, then the evidence will speak for its self, and you will be the only one alive to point that out.

If he is big and wants to pound you, you talk or run or fight, your choice, but IF YOU FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE YOU STOP THE THREAT.

I was once forced into a fight such as you describe. I was about 6' 4" and all of 135 pounds and my antagonist was about 6'3" and 240.

When the fight was over his friends removed the bloody pulp from the floor and took him home.

The last time I was attacked thusly, I ended up the bloody pulp and he ended up in jail as I picked my self up and found the sheriff. He had hit me in the head with a cast he had on his arm from surgery on his thumb, and rung my bell.

I don't start fights and I do my best to avoid them, even to running if possible (I can still run)

No one was out to kill me and deadly force was not required

Tarzan
 
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