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Thread: Washington Fairs

  1. #1
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    JoeRocket in another thread mentioned Washington State Fairs, and considering it's getting closer to Fair season I wanted to ask.

    Anyone know policies, laws, experiences with OC'ing at the Fairs? I'm thinking the Evergreen State Fair (in monroe), and Puyallup Fair (in puyallup).

    Couldn't find anything on web sites specific to firearms. Can they legally create victim rich zones?

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    OK, now that's just a little weird. :P

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    Mainsail wrote:
    OK, now that's just a little weird. :P
    How did you figure out my hidden middle name??

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    Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

    Bryan

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    wqbang wrote:
    Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

    Bryan
    I believe that they can regulate firearms. The washington state fair assoc. is an independant non-profit org that organizes and runs all the washington state fairs. Based on this they can regulate regardless of who owns the land because they are not a state agency. I cannot find anywhere, except back in the 20's and 30's, where the state funded the fairs. It appears to me that the state has no interest in fairs.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    wqbang wrote:
    Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

    Bryan
    I believe that they can regulate firearms. The washington state fair assoc. is an independant non-profit org that organizes and runs all the washington state fairs. Based on this they can regulate regardless of who owns the land because they are not a state agency. I cannot find anywhere, except back in the 20's and 30's, where the state funded the fairs. It appears to me that the state has no interest in fairs.
    Based on that I would say that if openly carrying a firearm I would expect to be turned away at the door. Their policy is clearly marked. It is private property and what they say goes in regard to what you do on their property. If you break the rules expect to be asked to leave and rightfully so.

    Concealed means concealed - don't ask and don't tell.


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    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

    I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...

    Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol


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    USN_MA1 wrote:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

    I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...

    Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol

    This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

    The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    gregma wrote:
    JoeRocket in another thread mentioned Washington State Fairs, and considering it's getting closer to Fair season I wanted to ask.

    Anyone know policies, laws, experiences with OC'ing at the Fairs? I'm thinking the Evergreen State Fair (in monroe), and Puyallup Fair (in puyallup).

    Couldn't find anything on web sites specific to firearms. Can they legally create victim rich zones?
    Puyallup fair has no weapons listed on thier website. The Evergreen fair site is coming up not found.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    I guess I didn't look hard enough at the Puyallup Fair website. I guess that cuts it, I won't be attending a fair this year. I'm sorry, I'm just not a "if they don't see it, they won't know", or "It's not wrong unless you're caught" type of guy. If they don't want my firearm, they don't want me. I'll respect their policy and just not spend money there this year. Hey, it'll save me a couple of hundred dollars anyway

    But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!

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    joeroket wrote:
    USN_MA1 wrote:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

    I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...

    Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol

    This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

    The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
    That is why I was looking for the part that included the music festivals and fairs. I am pretty sure that it stated that fairs were NOT included in the do not carry area. Still looking...

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    gregma wrote:
    I guess I didn't look hard enough at the Puyallup Fair website. I guess that cuts it, I won't be attending a fair this year. I'm sorry, I'm just not a "if they don't see it, they won't know", or "It's not wrong unless you're caught" type of guy. If they don't want my firearm, they don't want me. I'll respect their policy and just not spend money there this year.
    That is something everyone who goes armed needs to decide. Follow your conscience. If I were in charge of the fair, I wouldn't have the same policy. I do however support strong private property rights. It is a catch-22 for everyone involved. Your response is an absolutely appropriate one - but you already know that.


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    USN_MA1 wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    USN_MA1 wrote:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

    I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...

    Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol

    This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

    The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
    That is why I was looking for the part that included the music festivals and fairs. I am pretty sure that it stated that fairs were NOT included in the do not carry area. Still looking...
    The rcw you are looking for is 70.108. The definitions section, .020 I believe, is what spells out what an outdoor music festival is. It only applies to government sponsored fairs though.subsection 150is the firearms regulation for them.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Thanks joerocket. I was having the hardest time finding that.

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    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    [line]

    The puyallup fair will not be considered an outdoor music festival. See bold points above.

    Basically, this outdoor music festival law was created with one purpose: the gorge and summerjam. After too many shootings the legislature said enough.

    They made it clear that it is 5 hours or more (no concerts at puyallup approach 5 hours).

    They made it clear that it does not apply to any permanent structure as long as you don't overcrowd it by 250 people over capacity--puyallup fair concerts are held in a stadium, usually with seating (sometimes they have chairs in the field--sometimes not--but the grandstands always have seats). This clearly exempts the Puyallup fair from this.

    I only wonder whether, assuming it lasts more than 5 hours, a concert at white river, tulalip or marymoor park would fit in this definition. (I suspect at least marymoor would, but doubt the others???) thoughts?

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    gregma wrote:
    But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!
    Buy some Walla Walla onions, pan-fry 'em at home and grill up some burgers. Home made is always better!
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    just_a_car wrote:
    gregma wrote:
    But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!
    Buy some Walla Walla onions, pan-fry 'em at home and grill up some burgers. Home made is always better!
    But the curly fries!!!!!

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    joshmmm wrote:
    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    [line]

    The puyallup fair will not be considered an outdoor music festival. See bold points above.

    Basically, this outdoor music festival law was created with one purpose: the gorge and summerjam. After too many shootings the legislature said enough.

    They made it clear that it is 5 hours or more (no concerts at puyallup approach 5 hours).

    They made it clear that it does not apply to any permanent structure as long as you don't overcrowd it by 250 people over capacity--puyallup fair concerts are held in a stadium, usually with seating (sometimes they have chairs in the field--sometimes not--but the grandstands always have seats). This clearly exempts the Puyallup fair from this.

    I only wonder whether, assuming it lasts more than 5 hours, a concert at white river, tulalip or marymoor park would fit in this definition. (I suspect at least marymoor would, but doubt the others???) thoughts?
    Well that waswhat I was looking for. I guess it's time to use the magnifier function in windows seeing as how it was right in front of my eyes.:shock:
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  19. #19
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    There is no "State fair" in Washington like there is in Oregon.

    However the various county fairs MAY be run by the county or city governments here. My understanding is that Evergreen State Fair is operated by Snohomish County. I am checking on that fact.

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    joshmmm wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    gregma wrote:
    But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!
    Buy some Walla Walla onions, pan-fry 'em at home and grill up some burgers. Home made is always better!
    But the curly fries!!!!!
    Pick some up from Jack In The Box or buy a bag of 'em. Don't like 'em done in the oven? Get a deep fryer. :-p
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    There is no "State fair" in Washington like there is in Oregon.

    However the various county fairs MAY be run by the county or city governments here. My understanding is that Evergreen State Fair is operated by Snohomish County. I am checking on that fact.
    I guess in Washington, you wouldn't expect something called "The Evergreen State Fair" to be a "State Fair"

    Looking at the web site here: http://www.evergreenfair.org/page2567.asp

    I see a contact for sponsoring the fair as: Contact Elizabeth Grant at elizabeth.grant@co.snohomish.wa.us

    Looks like a county government email addy to me. Even better, at this page:
    http://www.evergreenfair.org/page2598.asp

    Every staff member has a co.snohomish.wa.us email addy. With the manager being: Mark Campbell email address: Mark.Campbell@co.snohomish.wa.us

    It just might be run by the county government after all! And I prefer the Evergreen fair anyway!

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    gregma wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    There is no "State fair" in Washington like there is in Oregon.

    However the various county fairs MAY be run by the county or city governments here. My understanding is that Evergreen State Fair is operated by Snohomish County. I am checking on that fact.
    I guess in Washington, you wouldn't expect something called "The Evergreen State Fair" to be a "State Fair"

    Looking at the web site here: http://www.evergreenfair.org/page2567.asp

    I see a contact for sponsoring the fair as: Contact Elizabeth Grant at elizabeth.grant@co.snohomish.wa.us

    Looks like a county government email addy to me. Even better, at this page:
    http://www.evergreenfair.org/page2598.asp

    Every staff member has a co.snohomish.wa.us email addy. With the manager being: Mark Campbell email address: Mark.Campbell@co.snohomish.wa.us

    It just might be run by the county government after all! And I prefer the Evergreen fair anyway!
    Nice find Gregma. I will definately be carrying, probably concealed though because I know exactly what will happen.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  23. #23
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    Snohomish County shows a $3.8 million appropriation on their 2007 budget for the Evergreen State Fair. If that doesn't make them a "Sponsor" of the fair under the law something stinks in snohomish county and it isn't just the everett City sewage treatment ponds.

    The land is owned by the county, the manager works for the county, the operation is funded by the county. I guess that makes it a county operation. That said, the fair is patrolled by the Snohomish County Sheriff's Reserve. They are not everyday deputies, just part-timers that look forward to their importance at this evert. They love nothing better than a confrontation to "spice up their day".


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